Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[f1vefour]

Silica in a 510 is like a stand of bamboo in a monsoon. It decays in any tank falling aside into the gunky airflow in the socket. Sorta like having to pick your nose. Yeah, kinda better if you hide that noise.

Just sayin'.

Regardless, I wouldn't want that in my mouth.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Ooohh Mac I'm definitely getting the airflow control valve. I'm suprised I haven't bought it already! Haven't tried the Aerotank, PT3, Or Unitank myself either

A/C is on the way, getting ready for

BTW, the proper electrical contact (micro) coil KPT, reconstituted 1.4Ω 29g (de-wind to 8/7) on 1/16", with improved juice channel airflow by f1ivefour — is on it's 8th day still kicking a** at 8W! So I sat with at a local dealer comparing the build and the clouds, yes clouds it makes, with the 31g twisted pair quad-coil 1Ω build on a Helios I'd done Tue. Kaftan, there's nothing wrong with a Protank that can't be done right by a proper electrical installation.

(I couldn't resist a cool day in S. Fla. for a demonstration.)

Opinion follows, conduct yourself accordingly:

Re above bold quote, I resist all efforts to hide the [sad] truth.

Good luck all.

 

[f1vefour]

A/C is on the way, getting ready for

BTW, the proper electrical contact (micro) coil KPT, reconstituted 1.4Ω 29g (de-wind to 8/7) on 1/16", with improved juice channel airflow by f1ivefour — is on it's 8th day still kicking a** at 8W! So I sat with at a local dealer comparing the build and the clouds, yes clouds it makes, with the 31g twisted pair quad-coil 1Ω build on a Helios I'd done Tue. Kaftan, there's nothing wrong with a Protank that can't be done right by a proper electrical installation.

(I couldn't resist a cool day in S. Fla. for a demonstration.)

Opinion follows, conduct yourself accordingly:

Re above bold quote, I resist all efforts to hide the [sad] truth.

Good luck all.

That's impressive that it's still putting out after a full week.

I haven't checked if Temco ever got 30g back in stock but I will say 32g blows hard. Impossible to get a proper contact coil on 32.

You think 29g is a good middle ground for KPT and for use on RDA's?

32g is great for doing twisted builds for RDAs so it isn't totally useless, you can also do 7/6 & 6/5 wrap non-contact coils on the KPT.

 

[MacTechVpr]

That's impressive that it's still putting out after a full week.

I haven't checked if Temco ever got 30g back in stock but I will say 32g blows hard. Impossible to get a proper contact coil on 32.

You think 29g is a good middle ground for KPT and for use on RDA's?

32g is great for doing twisted builds for RDAs so it isn't totally useless, you can also do 7/6 & 6/5 wrap non-contact coils on the KPT.

Listen f1ve, the technique I use of winding with tension off a coil I didn't invent. I've only tried to integrate a number of concepts like tensioning and coil symmetry here and on Metalhed's thread. To write the recipe on the basics. With adhesion (like metal memory) I started by introducing tensioning with a forceps and using a forceps to retain coils on the bit while torching. Approaches and alternatives to the simple most direct solution. All in an effort to familiarize vapers with these ideas. But winding onto a mandrel goes back many decades and it was a telecom line installer that showed me as a young man how to do a coil in seconds on an install at the start of my business/tech career. We've known about this stuff forever — the ease of creation of such coils based on Ø + wire gauge, the predictability, the electrical flow characteristics, durability and yes, efficiency. Nothin' to see here, it just works. So just do it, forget the fiddly…enjoy it and vape! Tell others. Show us your sh!!it.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

That's impressive that it's still putting out after a full week.

I haven't checked if Temco ever got 30g back in stock but I will say 32g blows hard. Impossible to get a proper contact coil on 32.

You think 29g is a good middle ground for KPT and for use on RDA's?

32g is great for doing twisted builds for RDAs so it isn't totally useless, you can also do 7/6 & 6/5 wrap non-contact coils on the KPT.

Got so excited I forgot to answer the dang ???

Short answer: Temperature is your target.

Or, the temperature that you like best for that juice in that device governed by the amount of power you prefer or have to give it. So the wire gauge is just a tool. The purpose of my tables is to extend the road map that the resistance/voltage tables provide so once you know, for example, that you like the temperature at 1.8Ω and you want it a little warmer you can know fairly well what you need to wind and with what for a Protank. Since Kanger's and other clearo's are similar, and though leg length varies somewhat, you can achieve like results. It's a time saver that let's people move ahead. It hopefully encourages them f1ve to attempt to rebuild once they realize, hey you need to know a little math here. That doesn't have to be an obstacle if others who've done it, like me, can point the way. Get them there faster f1ve. That's what I'm trying to help with.

I agree on 29g on the low side, a lot of the muscle of 28g without the power demand. And I'm really liking 32 twisted pair and another creature I've coined twined pairs which are dozens of twists per foot vs. dozens of twists per inch (clue, if you can control the twists in the pair you can dial in the net resistance reduction). Twined pairs may be useful in some RDA/RBA situations for larger wick diameters where you don't want to increase the resistance necessarily but want more surface and wick area. They may also be useful for common positive termination where twisted would add too much resistance to that leg.

Ooops, jumpin' ahead of myself again.

 

[Christopherja]

... but I will say 32g blows hard. Impossible to get a proper contact coil on 32.

I've never tried a micro-coil with 32g, but is it that difficult? I would have thought with a taut wrap (straight from the spool, or whatever), and heating&pinching, it wouldn't be out of the question.

Not trying to be contrary, just wondering where exactly the difficulty lies.

 

[f1vefour]

I've never tried a micro-coil with 32g, but is it that difficult? I would have thought with a taut wrap (straight from the spool, or whatever), and heating&pinching, it wouldn't be out of the question.

Not trying to be contrary, just wondering where exactly the difficulty lies.

It is extremely thin and can't really be pinched as there isn't enough surface area of the wire. It warps extremely easy when heat is applied.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've never tried a micro-coil with 32g, but is it that difficult? I would have thought with a taut wrap (straight from the spool, or whatever), and heating&pinching, it wouldn't be out of the question.

Not trying to be contrary, just wondering where exactly the difficulty lies.

It is extremely thin and can't really be pinched as there isn't enough surface area of the wire. It warps extremely easy when heat is applied.

Chris, f1ve I pulled a couple off quick recently but all my tanks were in test. Much easier to do, much, than, a forceps assisted wind. It's delicate but before I was testing tensioning with forceps and needle-nose that was the rubber test for me after several months. It worked. I was convinced it worked across gauges, not just the thicker wire or ribbon. Just started breaking some 32g occasionally as I reported earlier in this thread, usually after (or during) torching. But you quickly get the feel for the wire and the threshold when adhesion takes place. I don't see much advantage in over-tensioning. Just enough to attain coherence of the coil and yer done. A few hundredths one way or another in your Ω isn't going to make a huge diff in your vape. I do it because I'm trying to find the low points. Identify the practical demarcation lines for a given res build below which you could by in dicey land.

I personally like the lighter gauges in the thinner lighter clearo's like the 3TS and the EVOD. They have an airier draw which is real comfortable for prolonged light chaining, great for lung pulls and the tanks are workhorses. They don't quit. So really what are you building for? The device and what you use it for, it's characteristics, are what point the way to what will work. I've repeated here…don't push the work; let the work guide you. The same applies for the build. Let the device point the way for what works best in it (and what you want from it temperature, style of use, like that).

Good luck all's.

 

[TheReign]

so if i was to do it on a aerotank with the protank 3 style coils a 1/16th drill bit would fit sitting in the head? and i tried turning around the rubber grommet on the chimney before and got major flooding on my aerotank.. maybe im just an idiot haha.

 

[TexasTanker19kilo20]

Got the chance to rebuild a PT3 atty a week ago, first try came out to .9 ohms lol, it vaped great on my mech. Second try came out to 1.1ohms, still would not fire on my eVic.

Tried something new yesterday, took my PT2 atty, 1/16 drill bit, 30awg Kanthal, 5 Wraps, cotton wick, no flavor wick, and drilled 2 of the 3 air holes on the base out with a 1/16 drill bit. Build came out to 1.2 ohms. It vapes and taste better than my usual build.

Usual build is 30awg, 8 wraps, cotton, no flavor wick, standard air hole base. Which is still night and day compared to a standard PT2 atty.

No flooding, no gurgle, just smooth, nice vape. Very nice clouds also.

 

[TheReign]

so whats the best awg to use? I see alot of people using 30awg an others using 28? trying to get all the info i can before i start rebuilding my PT3 coils

 

[f1vefour]

so whats the best awg to use? I see alot of people using 30awg an others using 28? trying to get all the info i can before i start rebuilding my PT3 coils

I would say 30g or 29g for micro-coil or 32g for well spaced factory style coils.

 

[M_DuBb716]

Sorry I've been away guys, been a little busy. About to wind up my favorite micro right now for my PT2 - 10 wraps of 30g on a 1/16" bit.

Just incase anybody didn't know this before. Mac's method of tension winding, includes spinning your mandrel itself to get a perfectly tensioned micro. Not spinning the kanthal around the mandrel. I didn't catch this until about a week ago. Still haven't tried it myself though, because I don't have spools of Kanthal, but I will soon.

This is definitely the best way to do it in my opinion. And it seems Mac has been busy converting a bunch of pro's on ECF! See the last 10 pages or so > http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ncrease-vapor-flavor-th-913.html#post11985745

 

[Empi666]

In the 3 weeks I had to wait to get my 30g kanthal, I have been lurking on here learning everything I can about wrapping coils. My wire finally arrived and I just wrapped my first micro coil for my PT2.

Before I even started I felt I could do it blindfolded with the amount of info I have read beforehand. My first go wasn't too shabby. In fact I think it was a homerun. I didn't get it as tight as I would have liked, mainly due to the fact I don't have a torch, but I will get one soon.

Anyways, 30g 9 wraps around a 1/16 bit. Came out @1.8ohms. I have to say, compared to the stock coils I have been using.... This thing is chuckin the vapor. Tremendous flavor, nice pillows of vapor and it just sounds like a freight train when I'm vaping off of it, crackling as it's doing its job.

By the way, using Sugar and cream yarn. Boiled, 3 strands in the coils, 3 on top with 50/50 Faux Hawk Sauce....oh yeah baby.

 

[MacTechVpr]

In the 3 weeks I had to wait to get my 30g kanthal, I have been lurking on here learning everything I can about wrapping coils. My wire finally arrived and I just wrapped my first micro coil for my PT2.

Before I even started I felt I could do it blindfolded with the amount of info I have read beforehand. My first go wasn't too shabby. In fact I think it was a homerun. I didn't get it as tight as I would have liked, mainly due to the fact I don't have a torch, but I will get one soon.

Anyways, 30g 9 wraps around a 1/16 bit. Came out @1.8ohms. I have to say, compared to the stock coils I have been using.... This thing is chuckin the vapor. Tremendous flavor, nice pillows of vapor and it just sounds like a freight train when I'm vaping off of it, crackling as it's doing its job.

By the way, using Sugar and cream yarn. Boiled, 3 strands in the coils, 3 on top with 50/50 Faux Hawk Sauce....oh yeah baby.

Congratulations. Preparation meets opportunity! Em it sounds like you might have wound an 8-turn with that res. Perfect. I don't think you'd be having such a good a vape if you were that under-Ω. Sound like a great effort for first. Man, I wish I could have pulled that off when I started. But, really, save your money (and time!) on the torching. Look at my following post and the pic. Done in about 30 secs, then straight into the head.

As we speak some of the very best and brightest builders on ECF are now sampling this technique. And I hope everybody coming up can learn a lot from them. So for a good demonstration try watching super_X_drifter's great video on tension winding on an instrument screwdriver diameter.

Post #9277: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-928.html#post12021080

Pay attention how we end up towards the end using the spool's edge as the support for the drill on both sides of the coil. This is the most efficient way to achieve the maximum amount of (rotation) leverage and tension for the wind using your fingers as a guide for the screwdriver shank. The most direct feed and line to the coil. This really spares your fingers, hands, forearms…and neck! It doesn't require a great effort at all! Or coordination, or precision either. But it imparts tremendous amount of tension on the wire. And that's what you want…in a close minute.

It's a second way in physics to form a wire. And it saves time improving the durability of your work. You make it good, it stays good.

Best of luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just some notes I added to Metalhed's great localization thread on Protank slot limitations wicking and winding diameters. Hope it's a useful reminder, update…and a link for a great little screwdriver kit with some difficult to find shank diameters including my favorite for so-called 1.5mm media, a 1.8mm that actually mic's out to that diameter…

Maximum Protank slot width for coils, wicks, bits and screwdrivers...

As I work into this set I may be adding revisions to the ubiquitous 3/43" spec I've used in my tables described as 1.75 (approx). It's actually 1.77mm in dia. if you do the math. I will in time probably fill in the tables with 1.8mm results which represents the max wind Ø for the KPT.

If you get 'em, try 'em. Let us know on the thread, and your results if you've validated as suggested. It will help folks out.

Good luck.

 

[M_DuBb716]

Lol, hate to state this again.. My build from last night; 10 wraps of 30g on my 1/16" (1.5875mm) bit - steady @ 1.9ohms..... again lol. Maybe when I start using your spool-winding technique, Mac, my results might change.

It's vaping good though, going through juice pretty fast

 

[MacTechVpr]

Lol, hate to state this again.. My build from last night; 10 wraps of 30g on my 1/16" (1.5875mm) bit - steady @ 1.9ohms..... again lol. Maybe when I start using your spool-winding technique, Mac, my results might change.

It's vaping good though, going through juice pretty fast

Well, at least it's consistent! One of these days we'll have to break down and get you a carto-meter.

No really, superx nailed it with the last vid. I've experimented with a lot of hand holds. But laying up the screwdriver shank right on the edge of the spool is the max leverage, period. The gummy eraser is just too clever. Just use fingers and palm to guide and time release of more wire. The last part of the vid he winds of at least 10-11 runs perfectly like that. This is precisely where he was applying even tension. It takes a couple'a three tries then you start to feel when adhesion is taking place. It's like workin' silly putty after that. Nothin' to it. Then you do the face palm. I wish I'd had that when I started. Maybe I wouldn't have bought the 29 mods. LOL Oh well.

When you do the voodoo, this is what you'll see…

Good luck M.

 

[LReyes66]

Thinking of ordering a aerotank base/bottom cap with the airflow control for my girlfriends protank 3 for $7 at sunvape. Would it be worth it for more clouds n flavor?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

LR I've been testing a pair of bases across multiple KPT's (orig 1.5, 2) on mech's, with kick's, Sig's and eVic. Just have 2 but have been running them around a variety of test tanks I have for a wicking study. I was very skeptical but def improves airflow and certainly more control than I expected. I thought bigger air channels all out would prob be best but having ability to find the zone for the topper and dev combo is really productive. A wider set of responses than one would think on the KPT. The lack of AFC is badly under-rated as a criteria. One of my fav drippers has become the puny 3-post Forge clone with it's graduated 4-hole option. Throwing diff builds into that pretty much schooled me on the impact and importance of airflow. BTW, I like the track you're on with twisted. I tension wind mine and it helps with neater turn-to-turn alignment of the knurling as you go thicker wire. Runnin' 32-29awg.

Good luck.