Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

I haven't tried this but it seems if you were to take a bit of sandpaper and rough up the termination pin before putting it in the grommet it would be tremendously more resistant against slippage and ohm skewing.

Roughing up the inside of the coil cup would help also, couple that with the pin...problem solved (theoretically).

Can't say I've tried that f1ve. But as you noted if I recall newer grommets are not as rough in texture as the original Kangers. It seems a good suggestion. For a time I was roughening up the lead ends with some micro wet/sand. Before that I risked torching the leads only. Both on the bit before installation. However, it definitely wouldn't overcome the slippery nature of silicone coupled with warmed juice. That's like grease on wet pavement.

I have a rough rubber stopper in front of me from a lab beaker I'm looking at. It's the perfect porosity, texture and firmness. I'm thinkin' like grade school erasers. Anything non-conductive of about that density. A million choices really. Anything but silicone.

So the next step which is really futzzy and time consuming would be to roughen up the actual grommets with something coarse enough to evenly texture the surface…but not enough to damage or compromise it. The right needle file (non-diamond) would do it. Too fiddly, right? I thought so.

How about somebody just go ahead and make some already, will ya?

Good luck all.

 

[f1vefour]

Yes some textured silicone grommets would be nice.

 

[MacTechVpr]

One other question, is there a thread or video that explains the saran wrap method of threading braided wick? I've heard it mentioned but couldn't find a detailed explanation of the process. I'd be interested to try it out on the sample of ekowool I bought.

Grateful for your ack of this fine thread bov. And glad to comment on this. I've been a big promoter of super_X_drifters' conception of the microcoil and my own adaptation of tension winding because…you have to be able to wind to a metric to consistently achieve a temperature. And that's what the goal really is. Just like the BBQ pit. You need to get to that heat and reliably keep it goin' and even to get the sizzle. Really the big problem is once you find that wire count and diameter that works, how do you wick it? Lot's of ways to do it bov but none that's worked as consistently with different wick media I've seen than the cellophane wrap which I introduced on the thread...

[URL="http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do-26.html#post12477202]Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it: Post #259; How to thread ANYTHING! More power to ya.[/URL]

Frustrated, I realized it didn't matter if we could build the perfect coil if we couldn't get a wick in it. So I had to publish what seemed to me this silly solution. And it is except for one small thing…it just works.

And bov it's all about matching the coil diameter as closely as possible to the wick diameter as you can. In fact getting a little bend into the wick material is ideal. That deflection of the wick surface, like a bowling ball on your mattress, actually increases the contact or vaporization area a bit and that helps improve both vapor and flavor. More wire doesn't get you there or doubled-over media with creases and gaps in fit, more contact does. Single wicks closely matched to wind diameter will always outperform alternatives. You don't fry eggs in a pot boiler and for many of the same reasons.

Now it really isn't cellophane but ordinary plastic wrap, or the popular Saran or Glad wrap, etc. But any thin plastic might work if it's pliable enough. And cellophane is what comes to mind for many of us when you think of clear thin plastic. So sorry for any confusion. I just like the title.



Good luck.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Sorry to bother you again, but either I missed something, or I didn't get a reply to my question about the end wraps, so here I go again:
Are the end-wraps supposed to glow along with the rest of the coil, or are they supposed to stay cool, as the legs of the coil?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Sorry to bother you again, but either I missed something, or I didn't get a reply to my question about the end wraps, so here I go again:
Are the end-wraps supposed to glow along with the rest of the coil, or are they supposed to stay cool, as the legs of the coil?

No worries. Sorry I overlooked that LB.

Short answer: Yes, they should be! The leads below them are substantially cooler and the bulk of electron flow is directing to the center of the coil.

So, I would say that would be normal for the end turns to be slightly cooler than the rest of the coil. It's increasingly warmer towards it's center where most of the heat exchange is taking place. When the opposite is true the cause is a short of the leads or turn/s of the wind which are disrupting electron flow.

However LB, as you get consistent with the tension wind it starts to happen. You get these coils now and again with almost perfect adhesion. And when you fire up one of these…they light up like the Rockettes under the spots. Then that Protank cup looks molten inside. It's a sight to behold. And you're gonna want to really groove on that vape man, let me tell ya.

Good question. Hope you get the see the answer soon.

Good luck.

 

[Greg095]

On a 1.7ohm single coil rebuild, where I am getting alot of flooding (gurgling), do I need more or less cotton for my wick?

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Excellent, it was what I thought as well, but always nice to get a straight answer, as to whether I'm doing it right or not.
Still can't get them to fuse together all by themselves though, pre-torching works a lot better for me, plus no messing with compressing the coil after installing it.
But maybe it'll get even better, once my coiling gizmo arrives

@Greg095: I would suspect the flooding to be caused by too little cotton - when it starts shooting boiling liquid into your mouth, it's time to make a wick with a bit more cotton in it

 

[Greg095]

@Greg095: I would suspect the flooding to be caused by too little cotton - when it starts shooting boiling liquid into your mouth, it's time to make a wick with a bit more cotton in it

That is what I figured. Wanted to be sure though. Thanks for the info!

 

[kachuge]

it finally happened......... a factory 1.8 ohm coil that is as good as a rebuild.........

sitting here enjoying it right now........ must be a fluke!

g

 

[Greg095]

it finally happened......... a factory 1.8 ohm coil that is as good as a rebuild.........

sitting here enjoying it right now........ must be a fluke!

g

I had a 1.4ohm that I would love to replicate. It was AMAZING!!!

 

[kachuge]

always the way........... I hear your pain, mine too... lol
g

 

[Taowulf]

it finally happened......... a factory 1.8 ohm coil that is as good as a rebuild.........

sitting here enjoying it right now........ must be a fluke!

g

This is madness!

 

[cole_bie]

So I was having serious issues building single coils on my dual coil aerotank heads. It would always either be gurgling or producing dry hits regardless of the setup. I tried cotton and silicia with and without "flavor wicks" on about 10 different setups including vertical coil setups. I ended up taking an old T3S head and rebuilding that with a 1.4ohm microcoil and cotton. To fill the gap above the head where the chimney of the tank and chimney of the coil head meet, I made a washer out of one of the silicone grommets that go on the chimney of the coil head by cutting off the lip and placed that on top of the standard one, then another upside down grommet on top of that. The grommets look like this,

]|[

but vertical. Fixed all my problems. Been running it for 3 days not a single issue, just perfectly consistent hits everytime at 12 watts. If anyone has trouble with the dual coil heads you might give this a try.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Heh, I love Chinese quality control. I have about 20 Protank coils, all came with genuine Protanks. But, not all of them have the same slot width and unlucky as I am, the few I had tested my screwdrivers in, were all just a tad smaller than 1.8 mm.
Turns out, the majority are exactly 1.8 mm though, so I can use my 1.8 mm screwdriver to wrap coils around

Just made 4 new coils with an inner diameter of 1.8 mm (at 2 AM, contact lenses dry as dust), with 10 wraps of 30 AWG Kanthal A-1, hitting 2-2.1 Ohms and they are superior to my 1.4 mm coils (at the same resistance, vaping at the same voltage). I even got 3 out of 4 to fuse together post-assembling with just the slightest bit of compression (and you know how I've been struggling with that, MacTechVpr)

Of course I can't say anything about mileage yet, but they sure seem to vape a lot better than the 1.4 mm ones I had going for a few days with mediocre flavor and vapor production from the get-go. Might be the slightly larger amount of cotton, might be the larger inner diameter, might be both, I don't know. But I like it!

TL;DR: 1.4 mm coils - bad, 1.8 mm coils - good

 

[MacTechVpr]

Heh, I love Chinese quality control. I have about 20 Protank coils, all came with genuine Protanks. But, not all of them have the same slot width and unlucky as I am, the few I had tested my screwdrivers in, were all just a tad smaller than 1.8 mm.
Turns out, the majority are exactly 1.8 mm though, so I can use my 1.8 mm screwdriver to wrap coils around

Just made 4 new coils with an inner diameter of 1.8 mm (at 2 AM, contact lenses dry as dust), with 10 wraps of 30 AWG Kanthal A-1, hitting 2-2.1 Ohms and they are superior to my 1.4 mm coils (at the same resistance, vaping at the same voltage). I even got 3 out of 4 to fuse together post-assembling with just the slightest bit of compression (and you know how I've been struggling with that, MacTechVpr)

Of course I can't say anything about mileage yet, but they sure seem to vape a lot better than the 1.4 mm ones I had going for a few days with mediocre flavor and vapor production from the get-go. Might be the slightly larger amount of cotton, might be the larger inner diameter, might be both, I don't know. But I like it!

TL;DR: 1.4 mm coils - bad, 1.8 mm coils - good

Despite all the fanfare I give potential deficiencies in builds and bad quality of products…it gets easier. Tensioning coils eliminates that vast majority of problems we encounter. What's proven a wrinkle in the formula that makes it hard for all of ya still tryin' has been the evolving slickness of the grommets which makes keeping resistance stable and shorts under control. Hard to give a lesson when someone else's writin' on the blackboard. And the change in grommets did that.

So it's a learning curve for me too LB, all the time. And I kinda like it that way. It makes me value my vape when I have to work for it.

But not tooo hard, you know?

My biggest surprise with tensioned coils wasn't the extended life in the wick and coil. The totally unexpected was how clean the juices stayed for the duration. And that is a huge benefit to a flavor nut like me as no discoloration translates to a prolonged consistent taste.

I wish you good luck in your adventures LB.

 

[bover907]

All of the replies since I last posted were good reading. I am proud to say, that of all the coils I built between a week and a week and a half ago, all but one are still in service. I've re-wicked some of them like 4 times! I know that I have to get some more on standby, and between the two starter kits, and extra tanks my wife and I got when we quit in February, I have like 8 heads to re-coil during my 3 days off after my double shift on Wednesday.

Mac, I am definately going to try using the saran wrap (oops! sorry. cellophane, lol) to thread some of this ekowool into my 1.778mm coils. I hope the 2mm ekowool I have isn't too large for this to work. I'll report back after I try it on Thursday.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Despite all the fanfare I give potential deficiencies in builds and bad quality of products…it gets easier. Tensioning coils eliminates that vast majority of problems we encounter. What's proven a wrinkle in the formula that makes it hard for all of ya still tryin' has been the evolving slickness of the grommets which makes keeping resistance stable and shorts under control. Hard to give a lesson when someone else's writin' on the blackboard. And the change in grommets did that.

So it's a learning curve for me too LB, all the time. And I kinda like it that way. It makes me value my vape when I have to work for it.

But not tooo hard, you know?

My biggest surprise with tensioned coils wasn't the extended life in the wick and coil. The totally unexpected was how clean the juices stayed for the duration. And that is a huge benefit to a flavor nut like me as no discoloration translates to a prolonged consistent taste.

I wish you good luck in your adventures LB.

I actually prefer the silicone grommets over the rubber ones, as the rubber ones tend to get really messed up and dried up/cracking in no time. As long as I cut "a side" of the bottom of the grommet off (so that the bottom lip is a c-shape, when looking down on the grommet from above). Yeah, bigger risk of a short, but as long as I pay attention when fitting the grommet, and check that it hasn't slipped every now and then, I reckon I won't have any issues.

It's funny how much of a difference .4 of mm does, but it really does - now I just hope that 1.6 mm will work as well, as I've got that coiling gizmo on the way, and the i.d. of that, is 1.6 mm

But yeah, definitely get where you're coming from, I don't have a problem with tinkering "a bit" to get it working properly, but as my posts over the last few weeks have proven, this has required more than "a bit" from me - but of course that makes the satisfaction of (seemingly) finally getting it right that much bigger

I'm looking forward to seeing if the "gunk-up factor" will change with the 1.8 mm coils - my Grant's Vanilla Custard coil really loved gunking up FAST with the 1.4 mm coils. So here's to hoping they'll hold up a bit longer

Thanks again Mac, you truly are an inspiration here, always great answers that go in great depths, even if the same question is being asked time and time again

Oh, and just made 4 for a co-worker, so hoping he'll be as pleased with them, as I am

 

[MacTechVpr]

I actually prefer the silicone grommets over the rubber ones, as the rubber ones tend to get really messed up and dried up/cracking in no time. As long as I cut "a side" of the bottom of the grommet off (so that the bottom lip is a c-shape, when looking down on the grommet from above). Yeah, bigger risk of a short, but as long as I pay attention when fitting the grommet, and check that it hasn't slipped every now and then, I reckon I won't have any issues.

It's funny how much of a difference .4 of mm does, but it really does - now I just hope that 1.6 mm will work as well, as I've got that coiling gizmo on the way, and the i.d. of that, is 1.6 mm

But yeah, definitely get where you're coming from, I don't have a problem with tinkering "a bit" to get it working properly, but as my posts over the last few weeks have proven, this has required more than "a bit" from me - but of course that makes the satisfaction of (seemingly) finally getting it right that much bigger

I'm looking forward to seeing if the "gunk-up factor" will change with the 1.8 mm coils - my Grant's Vanilla Custard coil really loved gunking up FAST with the 1.4 mm coils. So here's to hoping they'll hold up a bit longer

Thanks again Mac, you truly are an inspiration here, always great answers that go in great depths, even if the same question is being asked time and time again

Oh, and just made 4 for a co-worker, so hoping he'll be as pleased with them, as I am

Thanks LB, it's my pleasure really. You're lookin' like a pro.

Enjoy the vape, and

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

WTHH, what ya'lls t.m.c.'s get so dang good you don't have to rewick 'em anymore?

One good way to beat the FDA folks for darn sure — we all start vapin' and rebuildin'. Ain't gonna stop us once we all got's a stove. Then we have the million man vapeathon on the FDA's front lawn.

We don't need any more tax reform-ation in the guise of public good re-marginalizing an already abused tax class of ex-smokers.

"Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree! —Russell B. Long

Let 'em eat charcoal filters.

Good mornin' everybody. Vape strong.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

They're actually working really well for me yeah, just dry-burned and put new cotton in all 4 today. I think my GVC coil is on its last legs though, every now and then, it won't wick, no matter the amount of cotton. Oh well, nothing lasts forever.

Would be damn nice if I could get my Kayfun Lite Plus to work properly though - coil fused together perfectly on all three attempts, but I keep getting some metallic flavor regardless. So it's being cleaned for the second time now, fingers crossed it'll sort it out.