I think I figured out my wicking/gurgling Evod/Protank problem. Yes too much wick as previously suggested, but my lightbulb moment is getting the correct amount of KGD or rayon in the coil and NO flavor wick. If I get the coil amount right, no need. Just holds too much juice and leaks and gurgles and spits. Correct wick, no flavor wick no matter how minute, nice draw, nice vapor, great flavor. By jove, I think I've got it!
- Status
Once you get "it", then it's done. I haven't had any leaking or gurgling or dry hits, from pt's and evods in months. Don't use evods any more tbh actually. Do you have the aerotank base ?
MacTec
One more time you move against the conventional thought and instruction. My first encounter with this contrary thinking was heating Kanthal after coiling to press and retain the coil shape - as opposed the the convention of heating before coiling. This turned my coil building 180 degrees for the better. As to ceramic, when I have been successful, the results have been unique and very favorable. The ceramic lasts longer than the Kanthal that surrounds it.
Now, you are advising no moisture before insertion of the wick to coil. I am going to try it. My ceramic, naturally, has been wet before insertion and it has frayed. I will find some desiccant packs and put them in a small bag with the ceramic. Perhaps this will repair the moisture problem, if not I'll get new - the infrequent successes I have had makes me want to keep at this. I have grown to prefer a higher Ohm at a lower Wattage - 2.5 to 3.0 Ohm at 7 Watts, maybe less - I quit on the more popular low Ohm, high Watt usage; it seems that it all preference not a rule.
PS: I found a lighted magnifier with a stand and "arms" [kind of third hand] at Radio Shack that I am going to use at my next try. I hope the glass is a good grind.
Thanks for the advice; as I tell all on here read MacTec.
One more time you move against the conventional thought and instruction. My first encounter with this contrary thinking was heating Kanthal after coiling to press and retain the coil shape - as opposed the the convention of heating before coiling. This turned my coil building 180 degrees for the better. As to ceramic, when I have been successful, the results have been unique and very favorable. The ceramic lasts longer than the Kanthal that surrounds it.
Now, you are advising no moisture before insertion of the wick to coil. I am going to try it. My ceramic, naturally, has been wet before insertion and it has frayed. I will find some desiccant packs and put them in a small bag with the ceramic. Perhaps this will repair the moisture problem, if not I'll get new - the infrequent successes I have had makes me want to keep at this. I have grown to prefer a higher Ohm at a lower Wattage - 2.5 to 3.0 Ohm at 7 Watts, maybe less - I quit on the more popular low Ohm, high Watt usage; it seems that it all preference not a rule.
PS: I found a lighted magnifier with a stand and "arms" [kind of third hand] at Radio Shack that I am going to use at my next try. I hope the glass is a good grind.
Thanks for the advice; as I tell all on here read MacTec.
Hi CMD. I feel ya. I've got an inexpensive magnifier by Carson that's part of my travel kit. I have a pro unit at the workstation. Both essential most days....
And to you CMD, best of luck.
p.s. This was a 26 AWG 6-wind on 2.38mm, ~4.0Ω and btw my coolest build ever, in every way.
I have aerotank bases for all my full size pt/davides. Not for minis. Is there one for minis now days?
I don't really know if they sell the base for the aerotank mini (eGo threaded) separately, but you could use the regular aerotank base with evods. Might look a little funny but it fits !
MacTec
One more time you move against the conventional thought and instruction. My first encounter with this contrary thinking was heating Kanthal after coiling to press and retain the coil shape - as opposed the the convention of heating before coiling. This turned my coil building 180 degrees for the better. As to ceramic, when I have been successful, the results have been unique and very favorable. The ceramic lasts longer than the Kanthal that surrounds it.
Now, you are advising no moisture before insertion of the wick to coil. I am going to try it. My ceramic, naturally, has been wet before insertion and it has frayed. I will find some desiccant packs and put them in a small bag with the ceramic. Perhaps this will repair the moisture problem, if not I'll get new - the infrequent successes I have had makes me want to keep at this. I have grown to prefer a higher Ohm at a lower Wattage - 2.5 to 3.0 Ohm at 7 Watts, maybe less - I quit on the more popular low Ohm, high Watt usage; it seems that it all preference not a rule.
PS: I found a lighted magnifier with a stand and "arms" [kind of third hand] at Radio Shack that I am going to use at my next try. I hope the glass is a good grind.
Thanks for the advice; as I tell all on here read MacTec.
Mornin' CMD. Wanted to revisit your remarks to make a correction on a stat which may have been misleading on the above build. The SteamMonkey CE Link+RDA was set up with dual t.m.c.'s @ about point four ohms (~.40Ω). A typo and I've not done much testing at all above 3.0Ω. I just don't think it's practical for most of us and my writings focus on what's possible to do for the average old codger like me, lol.
This build was a bit up there on the difficulty scale. Once you start understanding symmetry in electronics though developing your own techniques to achieve it is more rewarding. So I didn't really go contrarian this time. More middle of the road in low-ohm land. However, the result wasn't [low power] when i said the coolest. I meant, really efficient vaporization. No heat loss from those coils. And that's an example of what I like to demonstrate. This happens to be a great test of some of the ideas I talk about on this thread extended from the Protank to one of the most excellent mod/atty devices I've had the pleasure to own and work with. Thank you Lance for your fine creation. So nope, never got into the high volt, high ohm realms.
Stick on this track CMD until you nail that baseline. The bigger diameters like .07" are easier with XC-132 and still plenty of resistance options there with different wire. It takes a few weeks. A month or two in and you like most will be grooved in to a fine vape. Then it's on to refining all the tweaks and workarounds for our PTK's physical limitations. We've mastered what we can control — the power.
A very interesting convo on airflow the last few posts. As you get that wicking down understand that Nextel and KGD are super efficient. With better flow the minimal power requirement goes up. Where it might be adequate and dry at 6.5 watts and a good standard wind on silica you'll now be looking at upwards of 8W (depending on juice) to balance flow and power in vaporization. That means matching the airflow. And airflow bases saved the day with the improvement in the wind. Achieve that and you gain the margin of vapor output (density and volume) which equate to efficient transfer of thermal energy (coil>wick>juice).
It seems so many join the vaping lifestyle only to pursue the extremes of power generation. I on the other hand am very happy camping in the middle where the rest of us live. Trying to rest the absolute best out of the broadest capabilities of our venerable Protanks. How do we best fix our vape? We begin at the beginning.
Good luck all.
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Like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes
KangerTech Mini Aerotank Base - Sun-Vapers.com
LOL. Now I know what to do with the small forest of v1/v2 mini's! It's been months since I neck-boned one in my back pocket.
Shame on you clnire now I've got to test if they work inside the Magneto's eGo [back-bone backup] thread caps. And I've already got a dozen mods strewn across my desktop.
Aaarg!
Posted this on the rayon wick board as well, but thought you'd appreciate it. A very advanced coil build using principles I learned right here.
So I just rebuilt my RM2 with a double helix coil (twisted 24 gauges with 28 gauge run twice thru the slots). Out of the 2.5' I tried to get done, I really only got one coils worth of properly created double helix.
I must say that I was shocked by the responsiveness.
I normally build only with 28 gauge for the rm2, though I did use mundy's magic coil last time which provided pretty good flavor with the rayon wicking, but didn't give me the vapor production I was looking for.
This build spit tons of vapor with decent flavor. It was about .27 (+/- .12 since that seems to be the variance on my ohm meter at sub ohms). I was actually surprised by the lack of flavor when compared to my standard 28 gauge dual coils around 0.3 ohm.
Obviously the photo doesn't show it wicked, but trust the vapor exploded off instantly! And rayon kept this saturated extraordinarily well.
sorry that it's slightly ot, but a few weeks back I mentioned my plan to do this coil with rayon and I'm impressed. Going to try it on a larger atomizer with dual versions of this to super sub ohm it... just need to find an atty with a 2.4 mm center post hole or 4 1.25 mm post holes, lol)
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
So I just rebuilt my RM2 with a double helix coil (twisted 24 gauges with 28 gauge run twice thru the slots). Out of the 2.5' I tried to get done, I really only got one coils worth of properly created double helix.
I must say that I was shocked by the responsiveness.
I normally build only with 28 gauge for the rm2, though I did use mundy's magic coil last time which provided pretty good flavor with the rayon wicking, but didn't give me the vapor production I was looking for.
This build spit tons of vapor with decent flavor. It was about .27 (+/- .12 since that seems to be the variance on my ohm meter at sub ohms). I was actually surprised by the lack of flavor when compared to my standard 28 gauge dual coils around 0.3 ohm.
Obviously the photo doesn't show it wicked, but trust the vapor exploded off instantly! And rayon kept this saturated extraordinarily well.
sorry that it's slightly ot, but a few weeks back I mentioned my plan to do this coil with rayon and I'm impressed. Going to try it on a larger atomizer with dual versions of this to super sub ohm it... just need to find an atty with a 2.4 mm center post hole or 4 1.25 mm post holes, lol)
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
Like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes…
KangerTech Mini Aerotank Base - Sun-Vapers.com
LOL. Now I know what to do with the small forest of v1/v2 mini's! It's been months since I neck-boned one in my back pocket.
Shame on you clnire…now I've got to test if they work inside the Magneto's eGo [back-bone backup] thread caps. And I've already got a dozen mods strewn across my desktop.
Aaarg!
Yea, now I have to buy a few to try..... I think I mean to thank you for the link Mac!
$$$$$$ 
Yea, now I have to buy a few to try..... I think I mean to thank you for the link Mac!
Ran across it quite by accident. My searches were getting me mini's. I guess I should stock up too as these will go like the original aero bases no doubt.
Good luck and enjoy!
Posted this on the rayon wick board as well, but thought you'd appreciate it. A very advanced coil build using principles I learned right here.
I must say that I was shocked by the responsiveness.
You dare go where no mere Mac has gone before.
I marvel these things put out any vapor. But then it's .25Ω so you're talkin' some decent power. I can't wind anything near that thick without mechanical help. So I've stayed away. And I know we all gotta go there someday brook but I'm probably gonna stay shy of <.3Ω 'cause of all the nasty creatures hangin' there not friendly to the Mac. <shrug> However, with the rare attributes of the Raiju I am vapin' a very comfortably, foggy, .270Ω 26g/2.2mm, 5-turn dual, very tight tension wrap. So it's possible to do as I've been saying with tension. The juice economy of the build along with the thermal clues tell me the efficiency is there. As long as I keep the wire gauges reasonable.
Current experiments try to get me there with tensioned twisted 31AWG. That's what I'm trying to work out. And I'm close on a Helios at .30Ω, 2.2mm running at 22W on the ZNA. A nice vape I can handle (kills the batt in minutes). I throw it on a Cronus and it's a spitting undisciplined monster I gotta cap the thick pyrex DT on. Heading back up to about .80Ω for the ZNA for batt efficiency. It seems to be an optimal operation point for the ZNA.
I'd say tension helps your build too. And it seems to work with CCR. So it's a home run there +++.
It would seem that CCR loves power and seems to avoid some of the saturation issues I experienced with my.cooler more standard builds. Of course you know that this applies to all speedy wicks. Too cool, not enough flow you do get premature accumulation in the wick fiber. The coil follows. Same for a Protank as anything else. Efficiency is everything.
Keep us posted and we'll have some gnarly here too soon enough.
Good luck (great pics).
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You dare go where no mere Mac has gone before.
I marvel these things put out any vapor. But then it's .25Ω so you're talkin' some decent power. I can't wind anything near that thick without mechanical help. So I've stayed away. And I know we all gotta go there someday brook but I'm probably gonna stay shy of <.3Ω 'cause of all the nasty creatures hangin' there not friendly to the Mac. <shrug> However, with the rare attributes of the Raiju I am vapin' a very comfortably, foggy, .270Ω 26g/2.2mm, 5-turn dual, very tight tension wrap. So it's possible to do as I've been saying with tension. The juice economy of the build along with the thermal clues tell me the efficiency is there. As long as I keep the wire gauges reasonable.
Current experiments try to get me there with tensioned twisted 31AWG. That's what I'm trying to work out. And I'm close on a Helios at .30Ω, 2.2mm running at 22W on the ZNA. A nice vape I can handle (kills the batt in minutes). I throw it on a Cronus and it's a spitting undisciplined monster I gotta cap the thick pyrex DT on. Heading back up to about .80Ω for the ZNA for batt efficiency. It seems to be an optimal operation point for the ZNA.
I'd say tension helps your build too. And it seems to work with CCR. So it's a home run there +++.
It would seem that CCR loves power and seems to avoid some of the saturation issues I experienced with my.cooler more standard builds. Of course you know that this applies to all speedy wicks. Too cool, not enough flow you do get premature accumulation in the wick fiber. The coil follows. Same for a Protank as anything else. Efficiency is everything.
Keep us posted and we'll have some gnarly here too soon enough.
Good luck (great pics).
I tension wrapped it to the best of my ability with such a thick wire. I struggled mightily as well. This thing is shocking though. Usually takes my thick wire a second to heat up. (I usually don't go under 28 gauge, the 26 on occasion as that I can easily tension wind.) This thing was cig's coil tool + a clamp and pulling very tightly. It was a pain, but turned out shockingly well and I still am baffled by how quickly it heats and the vapor production. If only the flavor matched I'd be in heaven.
Will try again with something I know is extremely high watt friendly once I'm done with current squonker full.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
Like I said, impressive.
I can only manage twisted 30 by hand. Lately backing down to 31 with similar results. And yes a portable desk vice helps. I also use a vice grips between my knees or under one knee for short sections. You definitely need a good grip. At workshops I have someone hold the grips so they can sense how much tension is required on thicker wire.
Definitely Bill the Wizard was onto something when he recognized the need after my intro. The difficult thing and critical is how do you feel the point of adhesion. Especially on simple flimsy jigs. For complex wire twains and up if the wind's not quite there or inconsistent you're creating more hot spots than advantage gained by the wire's coverage area. The power gained is going to inefficiency. That's to say, your getting more air diffusion than phase transition (vaporization). But if you're up to the challenge have at it. It does look purdy. And it looks like you hit your mark brook.
+++
Good luck.
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Like I said, impressive.
I can only manage twisted 30 by hand. And yes a portable desk vice helps. I also use a vice grips between my knees or under one knee for short sections. You definitely need a good grip. At workshops I have someone hold the grips so they can sense how much tension is required on thicker wire.
Definitely Bill the Wizard was onto something when he recognized the need after my intro. The difficult thing and critical is how do you feel the point of adhesion. Especially on simple flimsy jigs. For complex wire twains and up if the wind's not quite there or inconsistent you're creating more hot spots than advantage gained by the wire's coverage area. The power gained is going to inefficiency. That's to say, your getting more air diffusion than phase transition (vaporization). But if you're up to the challenge have at it. It does look purdy. And it looks like you hit your mark brook.
+++
Good luck.
A drill, a screwdriver and a decent youtube video helped. I ran the drill in one hand and held the loop around the screwdriver. Spun until the screw driver was held tight by the loop and spun a little bit when I let go of the drill and the screwdriver. I just wish that I was successful with a longer portion so I could mess around some more. The 28 gauge that I wrapped around kept breaking as I was trying to flatten it.
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anyone seen this jig ? not sure how it would work. also not too many of the posts are in the useful diameter range.
RBA Coil Jig - 101 Vape
RBA Coil Jig - 101 Vape
Exactly maz. The devices look interesting and evocative of the potential for a great wind. Even as it's another knock-off clone of our own darkzero's invention on this very forum. This erstwhile innovation was an important step in perfecting the contact coil but still requires that the coil be torched to achieve adhesion. Torching prematurely begins the surface oxidation process which compromises the potential for having a more perfect fusion of the surface in several ways. This happens by adding artifacts to those layers or actually damaging the coil surface itself which hinder a uniform finish ultimately.
A great device which takes us only part of the way there.
And when I watch videos of some of our most influential tube personalities winding finger squeezed 22 gauge "micros" that look perfect I'm reminded of the same thing…we're still forming the wind. And those turns aren't as close as they could or need to be. So I often times scratch my head and wonder where all their vapors about.
To me as I've explained in my painted drywall analogy you want the coil as tightly together as possible when you pulse it. That way you see the most solid connection of the oxide layers that the current may induce. That's the way to the most solid stable microcoil possible. And really using a pin vise the easiest, fastest way to get to the perfect coil is tension.
I know some folks like to fiddle and a lot of guys must have their gadgets…but why make things more complicated than they have to be?
Me, I'd rather just get right to that great vape. If I want complexity why I'll just go fishin'.
Or perhaps tension wind one of these…
Good luck maz. (Nice to see you.)
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Exactly maz. The devices looks interesting and evocative of the potential for a great wind. Even as it's another knock-off clone of our own darkzero's invention on this very forum. This erstwhile innovation was an important step in perfecting the contact coil but still requires that the coil be torched to achieve adhesion. Torching prematurely begins the surface oxidation process which compromises the potential for having a more perfect fusion of the surface in several ways. This happens by adding artifacts to those layers or actually damaging the coil surface itself which hinder a uniform finish ultimately.
A great device which takes us only part of the way there.
And when I watch videos of some of our most influential tube personalities winding finger squeezed 22 gauge "micros" that look perfect I'm reminded of the same thing…we're still forming the wind. And those turns aren't as close as they could or need to be. So I often times scratch my head and wonder where all their vapors about.
To me as I've explained in my painted drywall analogy you want the coil as tightly together as possible when you pulse it. That way you see the most solid connection of the oxide layers that the current may induce. That's the way to the most solid stable microcoil possible. And really using a pin vise the easiest, fastest way to get to the perfect coil is tension.
I know some folks like to fiddle and a lot of guys must have their gadgets…but why make things more complicated than they have to be?
Me, I'd rather just get right to that great vape. If I want complexity why I'll just go fishin'.
Or perhaps tension wind one of these…
Good luck maz. (Nice to see you.)
Easiest, fastest? I don't think so...but faster than the darkzero jig perhaps. And, maybe for you ObiWan! I found my coiler, and ones like it to be faster for me, and easier too...Just sayin'....my two cents. Beautiful are your coils my friend...then again, so are mine, lol!
Good mornin' Bill. How ya doin'?
Nothing can be faster, easier than automation Bill. Goes without saying. You got the Ferrari and I'm salivating. And really thanks for putting it out there. I wish I had the time and space to build one.
For the rest of us who need a vape we can manage in a few minutes...Coil changes that are as diverse as the plentitude of devices and palate that we have or test and move off from as quickly as the Chinese give them to us...That kind of flexibility, of low quantity plus very high quality and of a need for reliable consistency is simple and quick! And easily accomplished by the human hand tension winding with an extraordinary short learning curve for most of us.
If the average vaper had to build a jig to accomplish quitting, darkzero would've never had to make one. Fact is none of this would have happened at all if one person, just one, had taken a leap outside the box to move this whole thing forward towards proper electrical function, namely super_X_drifter. Thanks Russ. And I never will stop thanking him.
I'm not saying making an efficient t.m.c. isn't easy on your superb device Bill. I lust for one, lol.
I'm not even saying it ain't easy to make one. For many of us it would be.
What's not easy is deciding as you have what nirvana is to you. The comfortable satisfying vape and flavor that will fit you, suit you for the rest of your life. At that point you build and pay the price for a garage for it. That Ferrari's a keeper.
For the rest of us vaping will be a learning expedition and a winding road for the rest of our lives. For those, for us, the versatility, flexibility and ease (not to mention economy) of a wind you can make in seconds with simple tools cannot be beat.
As they do find vaping heaven I'll be sure and route them to your door.
In the meantime, I intend to send the wanna be regulators of our lives a message…there are millions of us willing to take charge of our own vape. Can do so responsibly, technically correctly, safely and yes, easily. We know what we're doing and what we need, as well with vaping as when we fry our own egg. That's my purpose for doing this Bill.
For me the Protank is just a tool. A widely distributed canvas for this lesson plan. And tension coils for it just the means to an end. It's a skill. Not a thing. And certainly not competing with anything anyone has devised. It's knowledge imparted upon which you also rely.
I think a lot of people get me, exactly. I hope enough do in time. To understand the significance of what one small proper electrical circuit can have in their lives right now.
My goal is that million man vapathon on the FDA's lawn.
Good luck all.
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Thought I would chime in here to say THANKS Mac!!
You surely are a person full of information and technique!
I've just read through this thread and I can't believe what I've learned.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I appreciate All Your experience!
You surely are a person full of information and technique!
I've just read through this thread and I can't believe what I've learned.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I appreciate All Your experience!
Guess I am too lazy to read back..actually I tried but am not current with the lingo and getting lost.
Learned to rebuild protank heads by watching video's. Can not believe how great it is. Like it more than my Taifun, most of the time. Sometimes I get a lot of flooding, gurgling and liquid in my mouth. Can somebody help with some tips?
Using 1/16-6-7 wraps of 30 gauge ending up at 1.6-1.7
Learned to rebuild protank heads by watching video's. Can not believe how great it is. Like it more than my Taifun, most of the time. Sometimes I get a lot of flooding, gurgling and liquid in my mouth. Can somebody help with some tips?
Using 1/16-6-7 wraps of 30 gauge ending up at 1.6-1.7
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