I don't know Mac, where is this Vapor college you went too?
From A Galaxy Far Away
From A Galaxy Far Away
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Honestly I got my kanthal on Amazon it came from lighting vaped. $5.50 for 100ft.If that was your first tension wind awesome good job. I double checked your results against my own charts along with...
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
and on...Coil Toy - Online calculator for e-cigarette resistance coil building
That's a pretty tight wind if you wound 10-over-9.
No, for sure use the 28 if a little bit warm. You got it on a spool. That's good.
Would love to know your source, if TEMCO or an alt.
Best of luck to you jaime.
It was my first tension wind! I was amazed how easy it is. Bf ain't into rebuilding so I just build his coils for him. Lol
Being able to rebuild this coils are great... my only down fall with the pro tank 2 is my drip tip is super loose and tonight the o ring ripped it is secured with dental floss right now. Because I dont have another drip tip. I really just need an o ring guess its off to the vapor store in the am. [emoji2]
I will say this every one on here is amazing its great to be able to connect with other vapers! Thanks ECF!
Mac thanks this is awesome very informative. . Being very new at this and not too sure what it all means. But I am going to read and thw re-read again to make sure I understand.Had to go back and refine the input parameters on Steam Engine to proof your build and it now reflects the accurate theoreticals for your build. That's to say the wind characteristics that equal the wire length equivalent to your 10-turn build design
Diameter of wire = 28 AWG
Wire resistance = 0.0172 (Ω) (per mm, computed per appl., 0.0172 actual, 0.01726555538083)
Target resistance = 1.359 (Ω)
Inner diameter of coil = 1.58 (mm) (rounded from 1.5825 mm imported)
Leg length (total) = 16 (assumed, MacTechVpr. See Resistance Tables)
Wrap spacing = 0
Good morning Jaime. An explanation for the above and other users.
I last night proofed your build on Steam Engine. That's to say determine if your wind spec's conformed to what the theoretical or measured length should be and it's resulting calculated resistance.
First, I make one significant assumption that PT1/PT2 coil builds have a nominal lead (leg) length of ~16.0 mm (for both leads). This is based on the actual measurement of hundreds of coils over the period of one year. As time went be this tightened down from a figure of 16.25 mm I had been using for proofing. Doesn't seem like much but enough to make a measurable result.
Second assumption is that your wrapped a contact coil of some kind, by tension or forming.
What are the above numbers? They are the inputs you make into Steam Engine to describe your build.
(BTW, if you check the actual text of the link, you will find those values there. When you click on the link these numbers are imported directly into SE and used in the output you see. You can save bookmarks of your builds based on input values. Create folders say Protank, with appropriate descriptions 10-Turn 28, etc. for reference if/when you need it.)
The way to use Steam Engine is to enter these parameters over the default 30 AWG except for Target resistance. Leave that for last.
When you complete the entries you will note that the target resistance of 1.8Ω remains unchanged!
In this case, your wind, you separately metered or got 1.3Ω off your carto-meter or variable. You input that value into Target resistance. The resulting number of wrap required as per the program's calculation would equal 8.09Ω. The hell you say! True that though. Your exact resistance was not 1.3Ω. It was 1.359Ω worth of wire that you actually used. That is the theoretical wire length and actual in this instance. Resistance is proportional to wire length. And we know how much wire you used pretty accurately.
That's the fiddly part of using one of these app's...you must be the one to narrow down the number to match the wire. Once you do you will know the precise resistance of your build.
I found this is helpful for all vapers. If we know what our build's equal in resistance we can target temperature as we become familiar with what to expect from different resistance levels.
Even though I haven't verified your build (wound it myself) I'm going to be adding this one to the published tables meantime as it's a good signpost.
To know what you're in for then if you drop down to 8-wraps on a Protank lower the target resistance a half-Ω or more.
Now this is where this information becomes really useful, if you can establish your theoretical resistance in advance, you may deduce if you're shorting when you build, to the low or high side of the theoretical. This is very useful for safety reasons but also for helping to diagnose where you are going wrong with your build. There are substantial notes on this thread as to how those high and low variations occur.
I hope this info on how SE works and may be used is helpful to some of you. It can be a bit confusing if you don't know how or what it's doing with certain numbers.
I'm sure it must be baffling to new and inexperienced builders trying to use it to figure out what number of turns to wind. You really have to know what the approximate resistance of a wind is going to be. And that it is a factor of the math relationships of wire length and resistance. A road map is helpful to begin with. And that is the purpose of the basic resistance tables I've contributed here. From there you can fill in the spaces in-between with your very own imagination and tastes.
Good luck all.
I was just a very happy vaper to find that these could be rebuilt.
Thanks again though everyone here knows so much! I feel like im on info overload sometimes lol [emoji2]
Mac are u an engineer? Like u have this down to a science this is awesome.Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (addendum in bold) for your vaping pleasure
32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.35Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.8Ω √#601 Christopherja
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., m.c. =1.93Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. =1.83 Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.68 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.95Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 .07"-1.778mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.73Ω√
29AWG, 9/8 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.63Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω
28AWG, 10/9, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω #1637 Jamie Bates
Click on any linked wind parameters for full details on Steam Engine.
Some standard verification m.c. winds are included for perspective. All results were three times hit, verified on separate cargo-meters and variable in operation. Wire spec is Temco, Kanthal A-1. Nominal lead lengths typically noted on avg. are ~7mm(Neg)+9.25mm(Pos).
m.c.= conventional (hand or mechanically wound) contact coil
t.m.c. = tensioned contact coil
√ = verified (proofed, duplicated)
Your submissions would be helpful and appreciated. Please post or pm and I will validate (replicate) for this table as soon as possible.
(n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications and its important to make the destination.)
Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).
Good luck all.
It was that Log Cabin toy set I got for Christmas as a kid crg. Ruined me for life.
Good luck.
Nopes…but I slept at La Quinta last night!
All's I know is a little science can yield a whole lotta vape.
Good luck.
p.s. Actually had the privilege to work with some very good ones from around the world.
Don't be. I hung on here to learn from everyone here. I believed many would too and become as accomplished as I was becoming. And it's happened and they are becoming excellent guides too. They post here and I find 'em on the outside. I couldn't be happier. You will be too.
Congratz. Hang in. That great vape's comin'.
And thanks for your contribution.
Good luck.
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OMG, you're feeding a stray cat now......Just kiddin'....
I hope i am not the stray cat lol
Great post. Bookmarking this. Thanks~
Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (addendum in bold) for your vaping pleasure
32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.35Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.8Ω √#601 Christopherja
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., m.c. =1.93Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. =1.83 Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.68 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.95Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 .07"-1.778mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.73Ω√
29AWG, 9/8 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.63Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω
28AWG, 10/9, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω #1637 Jamie Bates
Click on any linked wind parameters for full details on Steam Engine.
Some standard verification m.c. winds are included for perspective. All results were three times hit, verified on separate cargo-meters and variable in operation. Wire spec is Temco, Kanthal A-1. Nominal lead lengths typically noted on avg. are ~7mm(Neg)+9.25mm(Pos).
m.c.= conventional (hand or mechanically wound) contact coil
t.m.c. = tensioned contact coil
√ = verified (proofed, duplicated)
Your submissions would be helpful and appreciated. Please post or pm and I will validate (replicate) for this table as soon as possible.
(n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications and its important to make the destination.)
Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).
Good luck all.
Thanks chanel, the idea a year ago was to create a short jump off point. To also set up a yellow flashing light on potential low resistance for newcomers. Yes, a bit for safety's sake. But mostly to highlight that lower than theoretical line length means there's a problem with the build. Good plan but it got complicated. Validation was simple. I've built over a thousand mostly Kanker coils in a year. I've also had the benefit of quite a number of interns and volunteers who themselves have built hundreds along with me to test certain principles. Some of these results have come in to the tables overriding my own.
Until recently but for a few examples here on ECF like Steam Engine and pjmarkert's Kanthal Coil Calculator it was difficult to find a sharable calculator that would deliver understandable and repeatable results. It's gotten better and I'm not attempting to reconcile results to earlier manual calculations.
That's why I appreciate the efforts of contributors here like Jamie's recent excellent read. I've made suggestions earlier in the thread and remark on it in the tables. I tried to consistently log wind results that recurred at least three times; and that I was able to check on multiple devices. It's not always possible with equipment spread all over and being shared no matter how many of them I have. Sometimes the proofing was spread around and I'm not running exactly laboratory conditions although I attempt some consistent standards.
I am grateful if any inconsistencies are noted. Some have in the past and it's helped streamline the results. All are welcome.
I'm still struggling to see how to make use of the options in SE and reconcile them to my own calculations. So this will be an ongoing process over the next few weeks causing revisions to the tables.
Thanks so much for your interest and hope this is helpful to you and all.
Good luck.
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Ok all after successfully building a handful of coils. I want to try my hand at a vertical coil for the PT2 any suggestions on technique how many wraps etc.
Not being one to withhold anything I had on my mind, lol…good morning Jaime…I think Big Screen D's http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-micro-coil-build-aro-evod-protank-heads.html is one of the most thorough discussions on this topic.
My take is the results are mixed. The problem being the media, cotton. It's hard to get the density right on a common horizontal build. Now we're going to soak it and drop it down to the bottom of the chamber right on top of a finicky 510 termination with an accompanying asymmetry of the leads to boot. And when it works it doesn't for all juices. It's kind of the…are we dealing with a square peg in a round hole?…situation I was discussing with cigatron re NET's and Protank's.
At the end of the day the vital and pertinent issue is bang for the buck. And where is the point of diminishing returns. For me I read just about every word on the subject. And I'm not one to shy away from a complex anything…but this time I passed. Strangely enough for a reason some might think odd for me…I don't want to get locked into one build. But I would in this scenario spend way far too much time trying to get it to work and broadly.
Sometimes you have to pick your windmills wisely.
Good luck.
There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers
Not being one to withhold anything I had on my mind, lol…good morning Jaime…I think Big Screen D's http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-micro-coil-build-aro-evod-protank-heads.html is one of the most thorough discussions on this topic.
My take is the results are mixed. The problem being the media, cotton. It's hard to get the density right on a common horizontal build. Now we're going to soak it and drop it down to the bottom of the chamber right on top of a finicky 510 termination with an accompanying asymmetry of the leads to boot. And when it works it doesn't for all juices. It's kind of the…are we dealing with a square peg in a round hole?…situation I was discussing with cigatron re NET's and Protank's.
At the end of the day the vital and pertinent issue is bang for the buck. And where is the point of diminishing returns. For me I read just about every word on the subject. And I'm not one to shy away from a complex anything…but this time I passed. Strangely enough for a reason some might think odd for me…I don't want to get locked into one build. But I would in this scenario spend way far too much time trying to get it to work and broadly.
Sometimes you have to pick your windmills wisely.
Good luck.
There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers
Thanks Mac you are always helpful I appreciate it really but I get your point I will give it one try if it dont work I will go back to what i know.
You know what they say if it aint broke dont fix it!!!!
I now see what you were saying mac yea tried last night and its to finicky. Leaks and gurgle shorts forget it to complicated for now.Thanks Mac you are always helpful I appreciate it really but I get your point I will give it one try if it dont work I will go back to what i know.
You know what they say if it aint broke dont fix it!!!!
It's a tough build unless you can see a general consistency of results. Let me clarify, the average experienced user could credibly repeat it. That's my rule of thumb. You see I have this funny notion that most of us have lives and that means we don't spend our entire days working out the premises of one particular build or another…as I sit and ponder how to keep my 40+ mods going.
Never mind.
p.s. An 26 AWG non-contact spaced tension wind on #4-40 screw (CCR test)…
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It's a tough build unless you can see a general consistency of results. Let me clarify, the average experienced user could credibly repeat it. That's my rule of thumb. You see I have this funny notion that most of us have lives and that means we don't spend our entire days working out the premises of one particular build or another as I sit and wonder how to keep my 40+ mods going.
Never mind.
p.s. An 26 AWG non-contact spaced tension wind on #4-40 screw (CCR test)
View attachment 369041
May I ask, please, how many wraps and what Ohms is the coil in the picture?
Thank you.
A tensioned non-contact coil wicked with Cellucotton Rayon huh? Looks like someones' gonna make a withdrawal from the flavor bank!
Lurking
May I ask, please, how many wraps and what Ohms is the coil in the picture?
Thank you.
Hey cig, welcome back dude.
Could we help dodari here? I did several wraps real quick before deciding on the test wind that day; and, I didn't go with the 6-turns in the pic. I believe the nominal pitch diameter for your screw spec is 3/32". Correct? That would make the Ø 0.0950 / 0.0925, right? I would use the wire's centerline pitch or neutral axis to calculate circumference. To establish pitch dia. that should roughly correlate to the same (or mid-point) of the screw's v-channel, 2.3814mm. Your thoughts on whether to use the wires unstretched center-line length for resistance calculation and how to relate that to the screw spec. Or some other criteria, e.g. outside wire dia. How implemented in say Steam Engine. I have as follows as I customarily rely on wire axis.
Good question dodari, sorry for the lag in reply. Operating in crisis mode at the moment without staff. School's started and I've lost my personal aide/intern. I'm assuming the above and a 6-turn wind i.d. of 2.38125mm, a spacing pitch of 0.0635mm, resistance = 0.61Ω.
It's a nice wind and I find it to be a warm comfortable vape on most of my devices.
Good luck.
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