Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[cigatron]

Hey cig, welcome back dude.

Could we help dodari here? I did several wraps real quick before deciding on the test wind that day; and, I didn't go with the 6-turns in the pic. I believe the nominal pitch diameter for your screw spec is 3/32". Correct? That would make the Ø 0.0950 / 0.0925, right? I would use the wire's centerline pitch or neutral axis to calculate circumference. To establish pitch dia. that should roughly correlate to the same (or mid-point) of the screw's v-channel, 2.3814mm. Your thoughts on whether to use the wires unstretched center-line length for resistance calculation and how to relate that to the screw spec. Or some other criteria, e.g. outside wire dia. How implemented in say Steam Engine. I have as follows as I customarily rely on wire axis.

Good question dodari, sorry for the lag in reply. Operating in crisis mode at the moment without staff. School's started and I've lost my personal aide/intern. I'm assuming the above and a 6-turn wind i.d. of 2.38125mm, a spacing pitch of 0.0635mm, resistance = 0.61Ω.

It's a nice wind and I find it to be a warm comfortable vape on most of my devices.

Good luck.

Hey Mac, yeah screw wind algorithms are gonna be complicated to program. The ID of the wind varies with wire gauge because of the "v" profile of the screw thread. Larger dia wire like 26awg will result in a larger ID whereas smaller dia wire like 30awg will result in a smaller ID. In addition screw winds are helical adding to the complexity of the algorithm to calculate resistance.

30awg winds result in .081 ID as measured in my shop with a gauge pin set. They are easily set in a protank head with a 5/64" drill bit after drilling out the wick slots. 29awg winds measure .084 and are also easily set with 5/64.

Haven't wound 26awg as I don't foresee any benefits to its use with non-contact coils. Too much wire to heat up imho.

My vaping unicorn for protanks is a 30awg ka1 7/6 #4-40 tensioned non-contact coil 1.75ohm w/ KGD wick. It fits comfortably and produces great vapor and flavor.

My vaping unicorn for an rda is a 29awg ka1 5/4 #4-40 tensioned non-contact coils 1 ohm each (.5 ohm parallel) w/ KGD wick.


cig

 

[dodari]

MTV and cigatron,

Thank you for the info.

 

[super_X_drifter]

Just dropping this here - tensioned OG micro coils with the coil gizmo
New vid

http://youtu.be/s_DLLILgajE

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just dropping this here - tensioned OG micro coils with the coil gizmo
New vid

Russ, thank you very much for that. This video is much clearer from this angle…showing how to keep tension on the wind consistently off the spool. It trains the coils uniformly into adhesion. And that's what you want. Those turns stuck together like a peanut butter sandwich. You want a screen door spring not a Slinky. Try as I might, I cannot do that squeezin' 'em and torchin'. Still do make some conventionals these days as I continue to run comparison tests. Constant skeptic that I am. But it's hard to get those together when it's thick wire or multi-wire.

So I still strongly recommend that folks keep that pin vise handy. It's a snap-shot. Quick and dirty. Plus I have dozens of diameters to pick from in my collection of drill blanks in many uncommon sizes like #44 wire gauge (2.18mm) which is quickly becoming one of my favorites for drippers (really nice for small and medium size, 17-21mm). A pin vise is awesome for the three or four diameters that we're likely to prefer for a clearomizer. Gotta tell ya though the gizmo is a blessing if you have motor problems like me. Increasingly for me a little help with the larger diameters is welcome.

Gizmo's good too for those last couple of feet on the spool or loose wire. You can clamp the loose end with a forceps or a vice grip (let it hang, let gravity help) to add tension as you pull and wind.

Very helpful this new one and I'll try to link up to it from my Facebook etc. Thanks bro. Hope you're havin' a great weekend.

Good luck.

 

[Jaime Bates]

Ok I have 're wicked the same coil for a while now. I couldn't get the damn gurgle to go away kept getting juice in my mouth. Went through half a cotton ball and a whole tank of juice wasted. Whats the best way to wick ur coils in the pro tank 2 I have mine built with 28gauge kanthal on 1/16th please help.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Ok I have 're wicked the same coil for a while now. I couldn't get the damn gurgle to go away kept getting juice in my mouth. Went through half a cotton ball and a whole tank of juice wasted. Whats the best way to wick ur coils in the pro tank 2 I have mine built with 28gauge kanthal on 1/16th please help.

Wish I could take this up with you tonight. I'm trashed. First and obvious though…make sure that wick slot is absolutely filled. The cotton must be enough if no flavor wick to not leave any gaps or you will def flood. For me flooding is intrinsically not enough power. For example, too much wick (too thick, high flow) and low battery or low variable power setting. Think like that and analyze the problem. You're trying to match the flow to the power.

What is the battery voltage and wattage/voltage power level set as this begins?

Second, you can't blow out a cotton wick but once gurgling starts you must still blow out the assembly as you've got juice at the base of the 510. As soon as you start gurgling or sputtering you have over-saturated. Dry out including the threading (and interior if aero) of the base. Then look at the power. At the very beginning of gurgling tilt the protank down as you vape 20 deg to draw that drip up from the bowl of the assembly. Up your power a watt. What happens? When you continue in the tilt?

Are you seeing a resistance variation up or down? Have a pic of your orig wick setup?

Just some tired thoughts tonite. I gather you've checked for hangers and that you're not over compressed on the grommet. That will close airflow and shunt vaporization, result…flood.

Shame that's a lot of juice. Hopefully someone will kick in.

Gnite, gluck.



p.s. There may be other issues but first…quick and dirty check/replace top wick/flavor wick with new. Make it slightly thicker, slightly longer. Humor me.

 

[Jaime Bates]

Wish I could take this up with you tonight. I'm trashed. First and obvious though…make sure that wick slot is absolutely filled. The cotton must be enough if no flavor wick to not leave any gaps or you will def flood. For me flooding is intrinsically not enough power. For example, too much wick (too thick, high flow) and low battery or low variable power setting. Think like that and analyze the problem. You're trying to match the flow to the power.

What is the battery voltage and wattage/voltage power level set as this begins?

Second, you can't blow out a cotton wick but once gurgling starts you must still blow out the assembly as you've got juice at the base of the 510. As soon as you start gurgling or sputtering you have over-saturated. Dry out including the threading (and interior if aero) of the base. Then look at the power. At the very beginning of gurgling tilt the protank down as you vape 20 deg to draw that drip up from the bowl of the assembly. Up your power a watt. What happens? When you continue in the tilt?

Are you seeing a resistance variation up or down? Have a pic of your orig wick setup?

Just some tired thoughts tonite. I gather you've checked for hangers and that you're not over compressed on the grommet. That will close airflow and shunt vaporization, result…flood.

Shame that's a lot of juice. Hopefully someone will kick in.

Gnite, gluck.



p.s. There may be other issues but first…quick and dirty check/replace top wick/flavor wick with new. Make it slightly thicker, slightly longer. Humor me.

What I was finally able to do was to just put thicker cotton inside the coil and then twist the flavor wick on top. So far so good 150hits and no gurgle or leaking. So cross fingers and we will see by the time the day is done. Have a good one mac later[emoji2]

 

[clnire]

I have found that 1 or two strands of Peaches and Cream 100% cotton yarn as a flavor wick can helpwith gurgling/spitting/flooding. It is a 4 strand yarn; I just pull off 1 or two strands and good to go.

 

[AquaLung22]

Hey guys, I've been rebuilding my protanks with microcoils for a long while now - always with regular cotton balls for wicks. And they work great.
But I started dripping a couple months ago, and the other day bought a (huge, 500ft) box of CelluCotton/Rayon from Sally's. I've really been enjoying it in my Helios, compared to regular cotton!!

I want to try some of this Rayon out with my Aerotank V2 next; most likely with a 30g 10-wrap microcoil, around 2ohms.. I know that you have to squeeze a bit more Rayon into the coil than you would with cotton, because it retracts a bit instead of swelling up, when juiced.
.... Has anybody tried 100% Rayon Fibers/CelluCotton in their Protank?? How did you like it and how did it turn out?

Graham CelluCotton Cotton Coil (< this is exactly what I got)
Thanks!

edit: KGD is also high on my list to try out, if I can ever get my hands on any. Along with readyXwick (Nextel), peaches and cream yarn, and that other new organic japanese cotton or whatever. lol

 

[clnire]

I sometimes use cellucotton in my Protank style coils. Works great! I also use a strand or two of Peaches and Cream for a flavor wick if I get flooding or leaking.

 

[chanelvaps]

I just bought my second box of KGD (gave away a lot of my first) here Koh Gen Do Pure Cotton

Hey guys, I've been rebuilding my protanks with microcoils for a long while now - always with regular cotton balls for wicks. And they work great.
But I started dripping a couple months ago, and the other day bought a (huge, 500ft) box of CelluCotton/Rayon from Sally's. I've really been enjoying it in my Helios, compared to regular cotton!!

I want to try some of this Rayon out with my Aerotank V2 next; most likely with a 30g 10-wrap microcoil, around 2ohms.. I know that you have to squeeze a bit more Rayon into the coil than you would with cotton, because it retracts a bit instead of swelling up, when juiced.
.... Has anybody tried 100% Rayon Fibers/CelluCotton in their Protank?? How did you like it and how did it turn out?

Graham CelluCotton Cotton Coil (< this is exactly what I got)
Thanks!

edit: KGD is also high on my list to try out, if I can ever get my hands on any. Along with readyXwick (Nextel), peaches and cream yarn, and that other new organic japanese cotton or whatever. lol

 

[MacTechVpr]

What I was finally able to do was to just put thicker cotton inside the coil and then twist the flavor wick on top. So far so good 150hits and no gurgle or leaking. So cross fingers and we will see by the time the day is done. Have a good one mac later[emoji2]

You're one up on me jaime. I never got the balance right on a PT with cotton. And my first two attempts with KGD were unremarkable. I preach having ample cotton as a PT solution but when I try to walk that walk…I tend to choke it. I'll have to ask you for some pointers shortly. Most wicking comes a lot more naturally to me on a larger tank. Did I ever say the Protank was easy?

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey guys, I've been rebuilding my protanks with microcoils for a long while now - always with regular cotton balls for wicks. And they work great.
But I started dripping a couple months ago, and the other day bought a (huge, 500ft) box of CelluCotton/Rayon from Sally's. I've really been enjoying it in my Helios, compared to regular cotton!!

I want to try some of this Rayon out with my Aerotank V2 next; most likely with a 30g 10-wrap microcoil, around 2ohms.. I know that you have to squeeze a bit more Rayon into the coil than you would with cotton, because it retracts a bit instead of swelling up, when juiced.
.... Has anybody tried 100% Rayon Fibers/CelluCotton in their Protank?? How did you like it and how did it turn out?

Graham CelluCotton Cotton Coil (< this is exactly what I got)
Thanks!

edit: KGD is also high on my list to try out, if I can ever get my hands on any. Along with readyXwick (Nextel), peaches and cream yarn, and that other new organic japanese cotton or whatever. lol

If you had only listened to me Al (changing your name again, lol)…and tried ceramic. It is about the about the easiest thing you can slip into a coil but the bit itself. Whatever…closest thing in the armory is KGD. It actually flows directionally but nowhere as efficiently as Nextel. I've actually been able to get out close to a week without a wick change with some juices with KGD. And that's quite an accomplishment for my buds. When you do get around to Nextel you'll see how it could be a game changer for a lot of folks who simply don't have the time to rewick. Now I'm getting down to some of the chemistry elements of this since the advent of Rayon. Resorting to some more advanced DIY to satisfy my curiosity about the impact of pigments on flow. No earthshaking developments but some promising hints. Anyway CC led to all that and its still a puzzlement if surprising at times when I least expect it.

Give a shout if those turns get loose kemosabe.



Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

I've found cotton to be my best for protank. I have the least issues. ReadyXwick does an amazing, amazing job. Much more flavor neutral than cotton. My issue always comes if I let the tank go past half empty. (Not so much an issue with my pt2 mini). Pretty sure it's just a pressure issue. Rayon I have used in my pt2, but it had similar issues to RxW in my pt2.

I use cellucotton rayon pretty exclusively in my drippers and bottom feeders.

As mac has noted, the pigments of the juice have a big impact on rayon. Most of my juice is light in color and is not doesn't have nets. The very dark juices or those with nets usually gunk on day two and by day three needs a new wick and a dry burn.

As I've been absent awhile, figured I'd drop my two cents. And since I've been using my reos or drippers exclusively lately, hard for me to comment on new pt developments.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've found cotton to be my best for protank. I have the least issues. ReadyXwick does an amazing, amazing job. Much more flavor neutral than cotton. My issue always comes if I let the tank go past half empty. (Not so much an issue with my pt2 mini). Pretty sure it's just a pressure issue. Rayon I have used in my pt2, but it had similar issues to RxW in my pt2.

I use cellucotton rayon pretty exclusively in my drippers and bottom feeders.

As mac has noted, the pigments of the juice have a big impact on rayon. Most of my juice is light in color and is not doesn't have nets. The very dark juices or those with nets usually gunk on day two and by day three needs a new wick and a dry burn.

As I've been absent awhile, figured I'd drop my two cents. And since I've been using my reos or drippers exclusively lately, hard for me to comment on new pt developments.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

I personally like to see these two observations affirmed. Because I think they're accurate and experienced by most of us. First, cotton has a texture and flavor in its vape. It's unavoidable for me. I can't cancel it out. And although less imposing in KGD it's still there. Nextel too…until it breaks in and kilning residual is dispensed with. Then it is remarkable. As some are noting though and have re CC, Nextel is a synthetic. It's very tight in it's construction and it's quite possible that in some instances it may trap certain large concentrations of pigments affecting how we perceive a flavor. One particularly it seems, licorice. Even so it remains the most flavor neutral wick I've encountered.

The downside is indisputable in a clearo. With Nextel you've hooked up a firehose to your atomizer…the coil better be right, power too and viscosity can't exceed a certain ratio; otherwise, you will experience leaking past the wick and base threading to the 510. That too is a valid observation that needs to be acknowledged. The advantage of Nextel is that it can be cleared like no other wick. The whole assembly can be purged by blowing it out including the media itself. And that's huge. Because you have full flow and flavor immediately and on demand when trouble arises, right up to wash time (full saturation). And that can be weeks out for some juices.

So it's a pretty amazing material. But brook I wouldn't give up cotton for it either.

Thanks.



Good luck all.

 

[Mazinny]

Wish I could take this up with you tonight. I'm trashed. First and obvious though…make sure that wick slot is absolutely filled. The cotton must be enough if no flavor wick to not leave any gaps or you will def flood. For me flooding is intrinsically not enough power. For example, too much wick (too thick, high flow) and low battery or low variable power setting. Think like that and analyze the problem. You're trying to match the flow to the power.

What is the battery voltage and wattage/voltage power level set as this begins?

Second, you can't blow out a cotton wick but once gurgling starts you must still blow out the assembly as you've got juice at the base of the 510. As soon as you start gurgling or sputtering you have over-saturated. Dry out including the threading (and interior if aero) of the base. Then look at the power. At the very beginning of gurgling tilt the protank down as you vape 20 deg to draw that drip up from the bowl of the assembly. Up your power a watt. What happens? When you continue in the tilt?

Are you seeing a resistance variation up or down? Have a pic of your orig wick setup?

Just some tired thoughts tonite. I gather you've checked for hangers and that you're not over compressed on the grommet. That will close airflow and shunt vaporization, result…flood.

Shame that's a lot of juice. Hopefully someone will kick in.

Gnite, gluck.



p.s. There may be other issues but first…quick and dirty check/replace top wick/flavor wick with new. Make it slightly thicker, slightly longer. Humor me.

I have been lucky enough to have never had flooding issues with pt's, and i have only ever used cotton. Earlier, it was sterile cvs cotton and the last couple of months, kgd. I have never used flavor wicks. I use as little cotton as possible, so long as the wick slots are sealed.

Another thing is i try to get the resistance as close as possible to 2 ohms. Although i use 29 g kanthal mainly, i have used 28 and 30 as well and i didn't get any flooding in those gauges either. Mac, you mentioned adequate power. I vape between 9 and 12 Watts. Maybe that's the right power for a 2 ohm build with a pt, i don't know.

these were my builds progressively, in order to get to my 2 ohms resistance target :

originally, 28 g 2 mm ( 5/64 ) 12 wraps
then, 30 g 1.6 mm ( 1/16) 9 wraps
and finally, 29 g 2 mm ( 5/64 ) 10 wraps

Hope this helps someone.

 

[Jaime Bates]

You're one up on me jaime. I never got the balance right on a PT with cotton. And my first two attempts with KGD were unremarkable. I preach having ample cotton as a PT solution but when I try to walk that walk…I tend to choke it. I'll have to ask you for some pointers shortly. Most wicking comes a lot more naturally to me on a larger tank. Did I ever say the Protank was easy?

Good luck.

What is KGD? And where do u get it?
So all I did was twist the cotton that goes into the coil really well. And then twist a smaller piece to on top. Problem is by 6 last night it was giving me a burnt taste. I had the MVP set at 3.8-4.2 bumped it up when the battery was getting low.
Thats not the solution having to change the cotton wicking everyday is not good. Coil I have in there is my original coil I built. Reads at 1.3.

The ONly thing I came up with is that the juice is not getting into the cotton good enough. Idk just when I thought I found a solution bam something else.

Idk if this juice im using or what it is. My juice blend right now is 40pg/60vg the order im waiting for is 50/50 blend.
It amazes me that over 90 days I've been vaping and I still dont have it all figured out just when I thought I did.

Ill take any suggestions at this point.

 

[PaulBHC]

You don't bump up the power on an MVP or other regulated device when the battery gets low. The chip boosts and regulates the power no matter what the battery level is. If the battery is low enough for you to notice a difference, charge it.

 

[Jaime Bates]

The onky reason I do that with this is because I like my hits to be consistent and last night is what im referencing I was out and not near a charger.

To clarify the battery indicator was still green I like to go max up to 4.2 later in the day then in the begining of my day.

 

[Mazinny]

What is KGD? And where do u get it?
So all I did was twist the cotton that goes into the coil really well. And then twist a smaller piece to on top. Problem is by 6 last night it was giving me a burnt taste. I had the MVP set at 3.8-4.2 bumped it up when the battery was getting low.
Thats not the solution having to change the cotton wicking everyday is not good. Coil I have in there is my original coil I built. Reads at 1.3.

The ONly thing I came up with is that the juice is not getting into the cotton good enough. Idk just when I thought I found a solution bam something else.

Idk if this juice im using or what it is. My juice blend right now is 40pg/60vg the order im waiting for is 50/50 blend.
It amazes me that over 90 days I've been vaping and I still dont have it all figured out just when I thought I did.

Ill take any suggestions at this point.

KGD is a Japanese cosmetic company. It manufactures natural cotton pads sold in packs of 60. I believe originally designed fpr make-up removal and such. Since its discovery by vapers, it seems to be out of stock most of the time at the various on-line retail stores. It's a huge improvement on cotton balls for its superior taste ( subjective, i suppose ), superior permeability, and ease of use and repeatability.

!.3 ohms is too low a resistance for the pt coil in my opinion, Because of the long legs in a pt, too much of the power is used heating up the legs. You would ideally want a larger portion of the wire in the coil part than the legs. I don't think 1/16 and 28 g is a good combination in a pt for that and other reasons. You need a balance between surface area, speed of firing and coil to leg ratio. In my experience, 29 g kanthal and 5/64 works better. 30 g is good too.