I have a sigelei zmax and a vamo. I use vv only on both, as I am constantly changing voltage throughout the day. To me, VW is like driving an automatic. Which is great for some people. I however, prefer a manual transmission as most slush boxes are never in the right gear. To each their own, whatever floats your boat, YMMV, etc etc etc.
Provape can i adjust with watts instead of volts?
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Provape has said time and time again that they have no plans to introduce a VW device into the market. VW is not the huge advancement than some think it is. It's really a safety feature more than anything else. I'm constantly adjusting my wattage just like I would be constantly adjusting my voltage if I only had a VV device. Difference juices like different power, different heads (even of the exact same resistance) also like different power.
With VW you don't run into issues like putting a 1.5ohm single coil carto on your device with it set at 6 volts, because you were just vaping a 3.5ohm carto and forgot the change the voltage. VW also gives you a nice "jumping off" point when dialing in your power setting, but isn't as set and forget as it's presented.
I'd bet money against Provape coming out with anything VW anytime soon. There are plenty of other areas of vaping technology that really need advancement, upgrading from VV to VW really isn't one of them. There are people that really want a VW device, and won't settle for VV. These people are not Provape's target audience. Provape has a large dedicated customer base, and that customer base continues to grow, not shrink, despite the Provari being "old" by vaping standards.
Considering they would have to invest money into developing a VW device, and then continue to expend money by producing a larger variety of products, for what gain? I honestly don't think they would increase their sales at all by selling a VW unit. People obsessed with VW and who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread are probably not the people who would appreciate a Provape product, and pay 4-5 times as much for one compared to a Vamo, Zmax, SVD, etc.
Most of this business may be all about marketing, but that again shows the difference between a Provape customer and people who snatch up every brand new trinket that China puts out. Provape makes sales because they offer a quality, solid product that people can rely on. They don't make sales because they have flashy TV commercials or because they jump on every new trend in the vaping world, and pump out sub-par products to please vapers with a "different" set of priorities.
I totally sound like a Provape fanboy, when in actuality I'm quite far from one. I don't own a Provari, and I have no desire to own a Provari. It's not because it's expensive, or because it lacks VW, it just comes down to the look of the device, and the user interface. I loathe the single button interface, and I don't like fat PVs, which the Provari is to me.
But I give respect where respect is due, and Provape knows what they are doing, and they are doing it well. They have no reason to jump on every new trend to compete, they can quite literally sit back, do nothing, and their product continues to be competitive against brand new products, of which it seems thousands come out every month.
They do have a reason to not release a VW device, one they don't have to, second it could potentially hurt them. Making an investment (designing/changing a device) without any payback is a bad business move. Until provape's sales begin to suffer they have no reason to come out with a VW device. And their sales show no sign of being close to suffering.
The provari is the Alligator of the vaping world. It's remained unchanged for a looong time, because it simply works, change for the sake of change alone is pointless.
Not only is that attitude totally unwarranted, but your flat out wrong anyway.
Ohms law does nothing to describe or calculate the qualities of vapor. Ohms law allows you to calculate power usage of your device, that's it, nothing more.
You can have two different coils, both exactly 2ohm, and one coil will burn juice at 4 volts, and the other will produce almost no vapor at the same 4 volts. The wattage is exactly the same, so they have to be the same, right? Nope. Nothing could be farther than the truth. You don't know as much about vaping as you think you do, which isn't a bad thing, unless you cop an attitude with a fellow member who actually does.
Would you like to learn? If so keep reading.
The design of the coil is the single most important aspect that effects what kind of vape you will get. 4 volts is always 4 volts, 10 watts is always 10 watts. 3ohms is always 3ohms. The way those values interact with each other stays the same. That's Ohms law.
3ohms is a measurement of the electrical resistance of the coil, it is NOT a description of the design or performance of the coil. What effects resistance? Wire gauge and length. (And obviously the material of the wire) If you increase the length of the wire, you increase the resistance. If you increase the diameter of the wire, you decrease the resistance. The inverse is also true.
So if I set out to build a 3ohm coil, I have some options on how I'd like to go about that. I can use a short coil, which lowers resistance, but make the coil out of very thin wire, which will increase the resistance. Alternatively I can make a super long coil, but use thicker wire. In both cases the measured resistance of the coil will be exactly the same, 3ohms. But the characteristics and behavior of those coils are going to be completely different.
Ohms law, which controls the calculation inside a VW device, will look at my two coils, and in the eye's of Ohms law, the two coils will be identical. They are the same resistance, so the VW device will calculate the voltage based on your wattage setting, and it will provide the different coils with the same exact voltage.
But remember? One coil is long, with thick wire. The other is short, with thin wire. At the same voltage, the thin short coil will get way hotter than the longer, thicker coil, even though they are set at the exact same wattage setting, and are the exact same resistance. The longer, thicker coil has waaay more surface area than the short thin coil.
All that surface area is radiating heat away from the coil, and vaporizing juice in the process. If you have the same amount of power pumped into a coil, but you have way more surface area, that power is getting spread out over a larger area, meaning less heat.
So that shows you how the design of the coil has a HUGE impact on the vape. With identical wattage (which just means identical voltage and resistance) one coil will give you a hot vape, the other will give you a cool vape. This also impacts flavor as well.
Then add on top of that: the juice being used, the material the wick is made of, the size of the wick, whether the coil is surrounded by juice (like in a carto) or only touches a wick (like a clearo) the amount of airflow running through the device, the amount of heatsink material close to the coil (saturated carto filler, or a saturated SS Mesh wick) and the million and one other little variables that effect your vape and you (should) realize that wattage, in the real world, doesn't really mean much in regard to the quality of the vape.
So next time you attack someone here on ECF, at least have truth to back you up. There's nothing worse than an argumentative person who is clearly wrong on the subject they are arguing.
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I constantly change the wattage setting on my Vamo and the voltage setting on my ProVari regardless of whether i need to.
Thats why i bought them both, so i could play. Personally i think the VW is a bit of a gimmick (which worked, i bought one) and mostly unnecessary for most users.
If i wanted a click and go system i would have stuck to my Ego's.
Thats why i bought them both, so i could play. Personally i think the VW is a bit of a gimmick (which worked, i bought one) and mostly unnecessary for most users.
If i wanted a click and go system i would have stuck to my Ego's.
I always hear people say "I bought VW so I wouldnt have to do the math".
I HATE MATH.....
Very little math involved involved in using VV.
Take the resistance of your atomizer and add 2 to get in target range for your juice.
2ohm plus 2 equals 4 volts....from there its s simple matter of trial and error adjusting up or down in .1 volt increments until you find your sweet spot. set it and forget it.
Once you find a resistance that works for you (either cold or hot) stick with it.I only buy 3ohm cartos.
Cant get much simpler than that.
VW is touted as simpler than VV because the people using it insist on making things complicated for themselves.
I HATE MATH.....
Very little math involved involved in using VV.
Take the resistance of your atomizer and add 2 to get in target range for your juice.
2ohm plus 2 equals 4 volts....from there its s simple matter of trial and error adjusting up or down in .1 volt increments until you find your sweet spot. set it and forget it.
Once you find a resistance that works for you (either cold or hot) stick with it.I only buy 3ohm cartos.
Cant get much simpler than that.
VW is touted as simpler than VV because the people using it insist on making things complicated for themselves.
And really, there is ZERO math required to adjust a VV device. You can, if you feel so inclined, do the calculation to figure out a starting voltage for whatever head you are using, and fine tune from there. But you don't even have to do that.
All you have to do, is when you put on a new head of a different resistance, is turn the voltage all the way down, and then just turn the power up until you are happy with the vape. I never understood what got people so worried about doing all this calculation, and referring to ohm/volt charts and all that. Is your vape not satisfying? Turn it up. Too hot or burning? Turn it down. It's very straightforward, and I think it confuses new people to make them think that you NEED to do any sort of calculation or else you'll screw something up.
That's probably why so many people are obsessed with VW, because they think it is relieving them of a great burden (ohm/volt calculations) when it's a totally self-imposed burden in the first place.
But I do like my VW, given the option I always choose VW. But I wouldn't turn down a device, or even think twice about getting a device if it was VV only. Because your still doing basically the same thing, you're either going "up' or "down" the numbers we place on the parts of that "up and down" scale really don't matter.
I had 3 vw vamo's and a ZMAX before I bought the vv MVP. I wanted a box and battery life and the vv gives me some range. So, VW isn't the be all end all , just useful. The low resistance and amp limitations of vv devices keep you out of serious trouble. If I had 2 identical deices 1 vv and 1 vw, I'd pick the vw, is all I'm saying.
UncleChuck said:
Uncle Chuck, I think you are my new hero. I might have a man-crush on you because of your above explanations on variable wattage vs variable voltange, and your statements about Provape's business and technology philosophy for the Provari.
You obviously don't have a dog in the fight by not owning a Provari and not being a fanboy, yet you offered an unbiased view of VV/VW based on facts and not opinion. I appreciate your straightforwardness.
maybe a man-crush is to strong a word.I agree 100% with what you said, though.
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To be simple about it, if you really love the concept of VW, go get VW. If you want a provari and wonder if you'll miss out on something because it is VV only, you won't give two craps that your provari doesn't calculate VW for you after you use it for 5 minutes.
As I always say, I have provari's, zmax's, evics and have had vamos....if I could only have one, it would be one of the provari's.
As I always say, I have provari's, zmax's, evics and have had vamos....if I could only have one, it would be one of the provari's.
Posted the below in another thread...I am genuinely interested in being educated....
You know.. this is an interesting discussion - Recently, I purchased two different VV/VW mods to go along with my pair of Provari minis...maybe its just me..but VW seems like the biggest gimmick in vaping to me.. Maybe you all can set me straight..
In the morning, I typically like to vape on a Vanilla custard with a touch of menthol.. The afternoon..maybe a little Vanilla Amaretto or a Black and Mild.. later in the day.. a fruitier flavored e-liquid like Hurricane, sometimes an apple, sometimes some Papa Smurf (soooo good ).. so.. obviously I like to mix it up a bit throughout a day..which in theory..should make me a perfect candidate for a VW mode..right? Now.. None of these flavors like the same voltage to my taste buds.. they all need a little more or less heat and sometimes that is even more affected by my mood to taste buds that day.
I should be able to drop anyone of these tanks on my Vamo or Evic and get a good, consistent vape.. right?...Not even close.. and what is even more frustrating is that it seems even more difficult to find the sweet spot on any of them.. I am adjusting the wattage as much if not more than the voltage??
I just don't get it..what's the point? I thought the deal was that i was suppose to be able to switch tanks and vape away and lets not even talk about the difference between the Vamo and eVic..
Maybe I am missing something but I know this.. I don't use VW at all as it seems like a complete waste of time to me.. voltage up or down to taste seems far more effective and quicker to me.. can somebody explain it to me because while I like both the Vamo and eVic..the VW part has nothing to do with it and both get absolutely unhinged by the "simpleton" and "archaic" Provari on all fronts..including vape quality
Can one of ya'll explain to me cause I am damn sure missing it?
You know.. this is an interesting discussion - Recently, I purchased two different VV/VW mods to go along with my pair of Provari minis...maybe its just me..but VW seems like the biggest gimmick in vaping to me.. Maybe you all can set me straight..
In the morning, I typically like to vape on a Vanilla custard with a touch of menthol.. The afternoon..maybe a little Vanilla Amaretto or a Black and Mild.. later in the day.. a fruitier flavored e-liquid like Hurricane, sometimes an apple, sometimes some Papa Smurf (soooo good ).. so.. obviously I like to mix it up a bit throughout a day..which in theory..should make me a perfect candidate for a VW mode..right? Now.. None of these flavors like the same voltage to my taste buds.. they all need a little more or less heat and sometimes that is even more affected by my mood to taste buds that day.
I should be able to drop anyone of these tanks on my Vamo or Evic and get a good, consistent vape.. right?...Not even close.. and what is even more frustrating is that it seems even more difficult to find the sweet spot on any of them.. I am adjusting the wattage as much if not more than the voltage??
I just don't get it..what's the point? I thought the deal was that i was suppose to be able to switch tanks and vape away and lets not even talk about the difference between the Vamo and eVic..
Maybe I am missing something but I know this.. I don't use VW at all as it seems like a complete waste of time to me.. voltage up or down to taste seems far more effective and quicker to me.. can somebody explain it to me because while I like both the Vamo and eVic..the VW part has nothing to do with it and both get absolutely unhinged by the "simpleton" and "archaic" Provari on all fronts..including vape quality
Can one of ya'll explain to me cause I am damn sure missing it?
Uncle Chuck, I think you are my new hero. I might have a man-crush on you because of your above explanations on variable wattage vs variable voltange, and your statements about Provape's business and technology philosophy for the Provari.
You obviously don't have a dog in the fight by not owning a Provari and not being a fanboy, yet you offered an unbiased view of VV/VW based on facts and not opinion. I appreciate your straightforwardness.
I agree 100% with what you said, though.
Hahahaha! I seriously started laughing hysterically after reading that! Shhhhhhhh, not in public
You know, maybe we could be the next Phil Busardo and Dimitris, now THOSE guys have a serious man crush on each other. I bet their wives are jealous.
In all seriousness I appreciate the kind words, bad. Us guys in the Cartotank Cadre need to stick together
As much as I'd like to have an answer for you, it's a "lame duck" type explanation. EVERYTHING in vaping is subjective!
Myself for instance, I don't like having to "choke down" the first vape of the day. It's always harsh the first few hits to me and my cravings aren't that bad in the morning, evening and nights are the rough ones for me, so I turn it down in the morning. At night my cravings go up, I'm still stuck with having to have that last cig at night before going to bed for some reason! So I crank it up in the evenings.
Other vapers, Kiwivape is the prime example that comes to mind, says she can change any of her delivery systems and any of her juices and never has to adjust anything all day. No difference in flavor no matter the juice or atty being used.
I'm not picking on her, or doubting her, as I'm sure most of it's mental with all of us! But I can't see how this works. I can take two carto's from the same package and have to adjust to find the right taste. Some feed better than others, some burn hotter than others you never will get the same exact mix on the juice, I don't care what the vendors tell you, each batch is slightly different. I can't see how a Vivi Nova will act the same as an RBA as a carto tank. My carto tanks are 1.8 ohm, I run them around 4.2-4.7v. My RBA's are at 2.2 ohms, so I should be good right? Nope, they tend to burn hotter and I run them right at 3.7v. This throws VW right out the window for me!
So, all I've done now is confuse you more, right? This is why I said it was a "lame duck" answer! I may shoot Kiwi a PM and see if she'll come in and offer up her side, if you would like? But really, it's just what works for you, might not work for me, and wont work at all for someone else. All things being equal, it's just subjective!
Appreciate that sawlight.. I would welcome any education but somehow.. I think you may have hit the nail on the head... like all things vaping .. it's all subjective
Soundhunter, as I sense you are being genuine, I went ahead and PM'd Kiwi as I think it's only fair for you to hear both sides of the equation, she's usually on around this time of night, so hopefully she can explain her side and maybe see something I missed or have a better answer for you.
Hmm, it's possible you have an issue with the regulation of the VW device you are using. The PWM used in all these "33.33" chips (like the Vamo) does effect the vapor quality, more than a few people feel this way, including me. A flat output signal, like with a Provari, or with unregulated devices gives a much smoother, fuller, flavorful vape in my opinion.
Although I don't believe the eVic has the same issue, but that thing has its own problems so I wouldn't know where to start.
Almost everyone agrees that different flavors are best at different voltages, so your not alone there. You will also be able to fine tune your vape slightly more with VV over VW, assuming the standard 3-6v and 3-15w settings.
For example, there are 25 different power settings with VW (on a .5w increment, 3w-15w device) and 31 different voltage settings using VV (on a .1v increment 3v-6v device) so obviously there are specific settings/power levels you can reach with VV that you cannot reach with VW. That could be part of your problem too. You can change the Vamo to VV mode and see if you prefer that more. Also make sure it's in RMS mode.
I think you were just expecting too much from VW, and that's because everyone makes such a big deal about it, I don't blame you for thinking it was going to be some sort of new great experience based on what some people say about it. For some people VW allows them an ease of use unmatched by simple VV, but for many they are still adjusting power all throughout the day either way.
To me it's really just a safety feature, and a nice jumping off point to adjust power. If I was using a VV only device it might take me a few more seconds to find my sweet spot than with VW, but is that really that much of a deal? It isn't to me.
I feel the same way. I bought a Vamo just to try VW and it just does not work as advertised for me. Vw or VV it just does not come close to the quality of vape I get from my ProV or Bolt. I can only assume it is the 33hz PWM.
Hi Sawlight,
I was staying out of this one. But ok - just speaking for myself on vw- sometimes I don't adjust the watts all day, but that's not quite what I've said previously. For myself, I prefer variable wattage over variable voltage because I can switch from one accessory to another and stay at the same watts - this is often the same juice but at different resistances. Or I can adjust watts and not worry about calculating whether the volts are ok with the ohms - the device adjusts the volts automatically to the right level. When I'm very busy and on the fly - and today was a prime example, this is very useful for me.
I can also adjust watts with different juices, and again not worry about volts and ohms being mismatched since it adjusts the volts automatically. Since I have a lot of different juices this works well for me. Sometimes I just change the watts with the same juice - depending whether I want it a little cooler, or I feel like getting the warmer taste. I like some juices at more than one temperature. So I adjust the watts, which is the power, with a simple click or two and vape.
An example of where I've appreciated the vw feature lately has been with my RBAs. Staying on the same watts with different resistances. I have read posts by people who do set and forget their watts and don't change them all day. Sometimes I do that, and sometimes, as above, I change it. Its not an either/or scenario - I just find it more convenient overall. In a bit of a rush this evening so just kept it short - I guess for me I like being able to set and forget, but I am not always like that either. Its a variable feature so there's room to move as well. I don't think people have made too big a deal of it - its a convenient feature that a lot of people have found they like to use.
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I think that's why I can have no issue with an evic or a kick but the vamo/anyvape/zmax/svd/groove/new thing next week doesn't work so well for me.
I never hit more than 9 watts so the allure of 15 watts means nothing to me.
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I can jump in here as someone with experience with both types of devices. While I still love my ProVari v2 and mini, the zMax with VW is pretty cool in one regard. I regularly rotate between 3 tanks (guess I still haven't found my all day vape because I switch a LOT). From carto to carto there are variances and I was accustomed to just knowing that the Truth Serum tank needed to go to 4.4 volts and the Antidote tank needs 4.7 volts on the ProVari - really not too much of a headache. When I'd switch out the cartos, these values would potentially change as consistency in cartomizers is hard to find. Plus I might see drift in resistance as the carto ages. Like I said, it's a little "fiddly" but something I became accustomed to over the years.
With the zMax I have found that I can dial it in to 8 watts and still get a great vape regardless of what I screw into it - no fiddling required. That really is a pretty cool feature of VW to me. Everyone has different habits and styles of using these devices, so YMMV - but I would snap up a VW ProVari in a heartbeat if it were to ever come out. I can't be the only one who feels this way.
With the zMax I have found that I can dial it in to 8 watts and still get a great vape regardless of what I screw into it - no fiddling required. That really is a pretty cool feature of VW to me. Everyone has different habits and styles of using these devices, so YMMV - but I would snap up a VW ProVari in a heartbeat if it were to ever come out. I can't be the only one who feels this way.
I have way more RBAs than mods - each with a different juice. I find it easier to swap among them on my VW devices. It's just less 'fiddley'. Set 'em to 10W & vape away.
That said... I pretty much only use my Cobra (Thanks Fury!) w/ a specific juice on my 'Vari. So it's set & good to go no matter what. When my DID gets here I'll mach a coil to a juice so I can just swap between the Cobra & the DID w/o changing voltage.
With my MVP I use a pair of Chobras that have coils matched to the juices (for best flavor @ 4V). Again, it's set & good to go for work. A strong coffee vape in the morning & a Nemo for the afternoon.
My dos centavos on the matter.
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