Provari on an Oscope vs Vamo

[dam718]

That linky above explains it...I agree...it might actually make the vape "hotter" than what it should...the result, burn to crap juice

Ultimately..it would make the square wave into a "sawtooth" wave

Which would be just a un-needed load on the output not really changing much..the "rattlesnake" would be there...just sound different more than likely

IF the capacitor can fully discharge in the off cycle, it would look like that... I don't think it would... The resulting waveform would look similar to the lower wave form, but I don't think it would ever make it all the way down to zero... Unless it could completely discharge in less than 1/16th of a second, which I would have my doubts. Either way, the device would be so crazy out of tune from what you have it set to, you would have to have an oscope hooked up to it to tell you the resulting Vrms... Too big a pain in the .......

That thing would sound like a really fast police siren

 

[dam718]

The MVP2 and iTaste V2 have straight DC output at their set voltage... They have a very clean output... They don't use PWM at all

The real shame is that these are the only two devices that Innoken uses this chipset in. If they could reign in the limitations of the circuit to broaden the wattage range from 3-15 (rather than the 6-11 it can do now), and get the voltage from 3-6V, rather than 3.3-5, that would be one awesome device.

They are very close...

The new L-Rider Lambo is a 20W device with clean DC output at all set voltages as well... But it doesn't always fire at the set voltage... Sometimes it fires a lot lower. If they can work that bug and get it to fire consistent every time, that will be a nice mod as well...

 

[Codz]

Most of the posts in this thread are far too technical for me, but at least i can now understand that the vape i get from evic really isnt as good as from the provari on the same voltage and there is a valid reason why - not just in my head! Good work

 

[GIMike]

My question is, who that has been with this thread since the beginning, is still using the VAMO? I've gone through 2 of them, vapor was great, quality of the device itself was not.

 

[denali_41]

Everyone who makes the claim that 33.3HZ 0-6V shouldn't make a difference to the coil is missing out on a very important part of our vaping experience, and that's the juice itself... I explained this pretty well in a post way back in the early stages of this thread, but it bears mentioning again...

Lot's of folks use a light bulb, but I think that's a poor example, because even though A/C is a 60Hz wave form (here in the US anyway) it's very analogue in nature, and the amount of time that filament spends at true 0V is effectively non existent.

You've seen a blacksmith at work, I'm guessing? He gets a piece of steel glowing red, then in open air shapes the steel... In open air, that steel continues to glow red for quite a while... Then to temper the blade he places that glowing red steel in water and it is cool to the touch in a fraction of the time it would take for it to cool in open air...

Now imagine on a much smaller scale, that you fire your coil in open air, and yes PWM will make it glow in open air no problem... I've never taken a temperature reading on that coil, but I would imagine that when it's glowing it's several hundred degrees... Let's call it a conservative 700... The moment you release the current, which happens roughly 16 times a second, that temperature is going to drop considerably... Why? Because it's surrounded by coolant that has somewhere along the lines of a 500 degree temperature differential. (PG is the same base ingredient used in automotive coolant, BTW, so it's EXTREMELY effective at dropping temperatures!) And we're not talking about a big heavy sword that takes a 10 seconds to cool to the touch... We're talking about a tiny little wire measured in thousandths of an inch!

In open air, I would agree, there probably isn't that big a difference... But when your coil is surrounded by a cooling agent like propylene glycol, or even straight vegetable glycerine. I just can't agree with that theory...

coil temperature has been measured at 200-300 degrees ..700 would burn !
antifreeze is almost useless in a straight mix !! thats why you make it a 50\50 mix

 

[denali_41]

after thought:

i can't believe this thread is still going .

provari is quality,vamo is cheap crap ,,end of story

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

My question is, who that has been with this thread since the beginning, is still using the VAMO? I've gone through 2 of them, vapor was great, quality of the device itself was not.

I started with a Vamo V3, still using it...right next to my MVP2

The hit/taste is different...noticeable but not enough to warrant throwing a Benjamin at it...but that's just me

 

[PLANofMAN]

My question is, who that has been with this thread since the beginning, is still using the VAMO? I've gone through 2 of them, vapor was great, quality of the device itself was not.

I didn't realize this thread had been unlocked until I needed to reference a quote from it. At the start of this thread I was using both the Vamo and a ProVari. One of my Vamos may have already been dead at that point, and the second has since died.

My (purchased) used, 3 year old ProVari looks the same as the day I got it. I've added one scratch to it, but all of the original scuffs and dings are intact. I've dropped it numerous times and on two occasions this loosened the head enough that the battery no longer made contact. A couple of whacks with a hammer to reseat the head and it was back working. I've had to clean the battery terminal contact once too.

Edit: I still consider the Vamo to be an excellent entry level VV/VW device, and since it requires both batteries and a charger, and as such, is a great gateway device to the ProVari. The Vamo should still be considered a disposable device though, much like eGo's and other similar mods. Anyone who gets a year or more of use from their Vamo and takes it out in public is fairly lucky (in my opinion). It does not handle repeated drops onto concrete well...

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Edit: I still consider the Vamo to be an excellent entry level VV/VW device, and since it requires both batteries and a charger, and as such, is a great gateway device to the ProVari. The Vamo should still be considered a disposable device though, much like eGo's and other similar mods. Anyone who gets a year or more of use from their Vamo and takes it out in public is fairly lucky (in my opinion). It does not handle repeated drops onto concrete well...

Absolutely agree with this statement...it is built under the "consumable" philosophy of make it so cheap and abundant that when it breaks (not if) you throw it away and get a new one...which unfortunately this is becoming more and more the normal way of construction on most of our products...cheap, inexpensive, and when it breaks forget fixing it, just throw it away and get a new one

 

[PLANofMAN]

I've been following along for a little while and since things have calmed down a bit (and I was reminded of this thread in another thread), I'll weigh in from an un-bias (I dont own a mainstream VV/WW mod) and scientific view.

There is good relevance to the frequency argument. The word that you all are missing is Joule. It is a measurement of heat defined as:

1 watt x 1 second = 1 joule(J)

First the VAMO (or any other 33Hz mod)
Assumptions:
Set at 4.2V_RMS (50% duty cycle)
2.0Ω Coil

Calculations:
1 second / 33Hz = .030 = 30 milliseconds(ms) cycle time

30ms * 50% duty cycle = 15ms pulse duration

We know the the VAMO fires at 6V during the on time.
(Ohms Law: W=V² / R)

6*6 / 2 = 18w

Now that we have the duration and the power, we can calculate the joules.

18w * 15ms = 270 millijoules(mJ) per pulse.

Provari (or any other DC output)
The Provari's frequency is irrelevant. It's a flat DC voltage with a little bit of ripple to it. We don't have to figure out the pulse time because realistically, there is no pulse. So all we have to do is figure out the output in joules for the same duration and compare it to the VAMO.

Same assumptions:
4.2v and 2.0Ω coil.

(Ohms Law: W=V² / R)
4.2*4.2 / 2 = 8.82

8.82W * 15ms = 132mJ

So we end up with 270mJ per pulse compared to 132mJ over the same duration. If we look at the heat output over the period of a full second they are relatively equal, 9.0J compared to 8.82J (the error is due to 4.2V_RMS not being exactly 50% duty cycle). However, burnt juice, even if only 15ms at a time, is still burnt juice.

By increasing the frequency of a pulsed output device, you are shortening the pulse duration and thus lowering the joules per pulse. You will never get equalization compared to a DC output, but eventually the frequency will be high enough, and the joules per pulse low enough, that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Another interesting note is that as the duty cycle increases (higher voltage/longer pulse duration) the difference in joules between the two devices will decrease. Meaning, by setting both devices at 5.0v the difference in the heat output will be less than if set on 4.2V.

Quoting this just to get it to the end of the thread and easier to find, since I seem to reference it every month or so.

 

[Nibiru2012]

The Lambo v6.0 also gives a flat line voltage readout. It doesn't pulse like a mod with a 33.3 Hz chip does.
How do I know this? Because when using an inline voltage meter I get a readout. With those inline voltage meters with LED readout IF one has a 33.3 Hz chip the meter will only flash... it does not like the pulsing so it only flashes.

 

[RRaider]

I just bought a Provari and have been using my Vamo for about 18mos. I wondered why I could set both devices at 3.2 volts and have the Vamo burn what was working well on the Provari.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Just a quick update to this thread. The Version 4 and 5 Vamo upgraded to a better chip and no longer use a 33.3 Hz chip. If you have a V3 or earlier Vamo, it uses the 33.3 hz chip.

 

[RebelGolfer72]

Ends to a mean . One thing I can say, from my experience working for some time with resistance brazing equipment, there was more than one way to get the parts hot enough: hold on extreme power fast, high power pulsing it (and the duration/rests in pulses make a difference), or low power, letting it come up slowly. All 3 could make a connection, however, depending on what you were joining, the different methods gave different results in terms of heat staying concentrated, or more dispersed...oxidation and so on. So even if DC vs PWM low freq (33hz/66hz), vs PWM height frequency 650hz+) are all going to heat the coils differently and so on


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[destinkarette]

Now THAT was an interesting read. Read thread from the start and learned a lot of technical info, as well as some things about human nature.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Just a quick update to this thread. The Version 4 and 5 Vamo upgraded to a better chip and no longer use a 33.3 Hz chip. If you have a V3 or earlier Vamo, it uses the 33.3 hz chip.

Link to verify upgrade from 33.3hz?
Everything Ive found states the V5 has the same electronics as the V3 (33.3hz).

This one shows the same 33.3hz as any other vamo/ (insert name here) about the 23 minute mark.--->

 

[PLANofMAN]

I should have checked it and confirmed. I was just repeating what I was told by a random Vamo owner.

 

[SuperDave68]

well,
I have been away from ecf for awhile. I was in a vape shop today looking for a cheap clearo to take through the airport and not risk losing my rba's at the check point, and I saw the Itaste 134 mod. it as an appealing "industrial" look to it, kind of reminded me of a style of air/hydraulic cylinder design.

anybody know what chipset it has in it ? I am tempted to get one, even though i now have two provari's, but if it is still the cheap 33hz chip, i don't think the cool look of it out weighs that detriment.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

The Itaste 134 has a 48hz 'chip'.
The 14.7hz 'improvement' over 33.3 isn't worth the cost difference IMO.

 

[SuperDave68]

The Itaste 134 has a 48hz 'chip'.
The 14.7hz 'improvement' over 33.3 isn't worth the cost difference IMO.

that's too bad, probably won't get one then, but they sure do look different