On the keeping things made here in the USA you just gotta thank your goverment for minimum wages and taxes on the people that make the big bucks.
- Status
Well, I sent the specs over and pics are going out later tonight (I hope). The first prototype will be ready soon. It certainly COULD be made in the US but it would cost substantially more. I'd rather have them produce it and sell it for less money than have it made here and cost twice as much (or more). I love America and I love American workers (hell, I'm one of them!) but when it comes to something like this I'd rather that lots of people be able to afford them and enjoy them because it has a reasonable price. Now if the mfg checks the specs and prices and finds that it can be produced for the same or less domestically (or even just a bit more), then of course, it'll get made here. I'm sure everyone can understand that.
That's the problem with Capitalism, everybody wants to make as much as they can, but pay the least that they can. So. . .what do you expect? To make this happen, of course they ship the manufacturing abroad. Some of you are just gonna have to understand when they close the doors to wherever you work.
Cheers,
otrpu
Cheers,
otrpu
Something you learn in Economics 101 - the Law of Comparative Economic Advantage (look it up) - If you can make medicine, movies, airplanes, etc., better and cheaper you do it and trade for what they do better (i.e. let Brazil make coffee beans).
Yes, excessive profit and too much pay for corporate CEOs is where the excess costs go. American workers are making less than they used to, getting less benefits, and putting in more hours (it's one of the reasons unemployment is stagnant -- companies learned the last year they could do what they do by just working their employees more instead of hiring new ones and that's cheaper). Thus, we can only afford things made in China -- not because of minimum wage and child labor laws, but because CEOs used to make 24 times the average workers' pay (in the 1950s when things were made here) and now they make 362 times the average workers' pay and anything is subject to sacrifice in the name increasing profits for shareholders.
What happened to Henry Ford saying he wanted to pay his employees enough so they could buy the product they were making? He wasn't a generous philanthropist. He was a smart businessman who realized paying his employees enough to buy cars meant he could sell more cars. Now, we are shortsighted fools who only care about this fiscal year's profits, which can easily be increased by cutting or keeping down worker wages and benefits. 5 years ago I said it would lead to a crash -- you can't keep paying people less in a consumer-based economy and expect it to stay vibrant. While going from a $20/hr. factory job to a $5/hr. Wal Mart job makes the unemployment numbers low, the under-employment eventually hurts us all and brings a consumer-based economy to a screeching halt. At some point, people can't afford to buy anything and the corporate profits crash. It took awhile because everyone bought on credit, but that finally ran out and kaboom.
I understand trying to keep the price of consumer goods down to be able to sell more of them (i.e., have it made in China), but I also would love to see the U.S. actually make things again and make them quality (I shouldn't have to request capacitors made in Taiwan because the ones made in the U.S. leak or find CD-RW disks made in Japan because they fail less often than the ones made in the U.S.) But, that also requires a shift in culture and thinking -- recognizing that making a quality product and paying better wages may not maximize the profits for this year, but will provide longer-term viability for the business and the economy and consistent profits for years to come. China is working to surpass Japan right now in terms of manufacturing quality electronics and they're getting there (Japan already admits China is building some things better than Japan). Why isn't the U.S. trying to become to best at making something so other countries are coming to us to buy it?
O.k. down off the soapbox. Is it early January yet, so I can start stalking my mailbox for my ProVari?
Cheers
Do you prefer socialism? Maybe communism? How about anarchism? Not for me thank you, I'll gladly stick with capitalism.
You don't know what socialism is. People in Europe get to take 4 week vacations and make more money than you do....Because they live in socialist countries...
CEO salaries are NOT the reason costs are higher. The salary of the average CEO, while certainly enormous, is only a tiny fraction of the costs to run a large corporation.
If you want to understand why things cost more to make in the U.S. than elsewhere I can answer it with one word: litigation
Check the number of product liability lawsuits in the U.S. versus any other country in the world and you will have a big part of the answer.
When i hear cost the word regulations always come to mind.
EDIT: oh and taxes!
EDIT: oh and taxes!
LOL, there are at least 20 different forms of socialism. Pick a bad one, that's my example.
Back on topic....
Oh I wish I had preordered sooner but still glad I preorded when I did. I ordered the night before the price went up Order #3257
Yup!
Those cheap products from Walmarts will sure look sweet, when you're out of a job!!!
Let's just keep the gov.t' out of our business, and let the corp.'s decide everything! Who needs fair wages, weekends, two week vacations and safe work conditions, anyways....
Back on topic... received my ProVari tonight, and it is sweeeeeet!
It really brings out flavors from juices I've been vaping for weeks, but now taste much nicer!
This is my first Variable Voltage mod, so perhaps all of them do that, enhance the flavor and allow stronger vaping. However, the ProVari just has a solid build to it, easy to use! It is weighty, but not too heavy. As others have mentioned, end cap screws in smooth as silk, the display is beautiful and changing settings is a piece of cake!
I've been carrying around an Ali'i in my shirt pocket for about a month now. The ProVari, with 510 atty and drip tip, is the exact same hight as the Ali'i, but obviously much thinner and less bulky. Have to see how convenient or inconvenient the ProVari is to carry around in a shirt pocket (this puppy is NOT staying at home, sorry!), but for tonight, I'm lovin it! (I've had it all of about 15 minutes, mind you!)
Congrats to all the others who've been waiting for their ProVari, and received 'em today. For others who are waiting, and I KNOW this has been said before, you will NOT be sorry!
It really brings out flavors from juices I've been vaping for weeks, but now taste much nicer!
This is my first Variable Voltage mod, so perhaps all of them do that, enhance the flavor and allow stronger vaping. However, the ProVari just has a solid build to it, easy to use! It is weighty, but not too heavy. As others have mentioned, end cap screws in smooth as silk, the display is beautiful and changing settings is a piece of cake!
I've been carrying around an Ali'i in my shirt pocket for about a month now. The ProVari, with 510 atty and drip tip, is the exact same hight as the Ali'i, but obviously much thinner and less bulky. Have to see how convenient or inconvenient the ProVari is to carry around in a shirt pocket (this puppy is NOT staying at home, sorry!), but for tonight, I'm lovin it! (I've had it all of about 15 minutes, mind you!)
Congrats to all the others who've been waiting for their ProVari, and received 'em today. For others who are waiting, and I KNOW this has been said before, you will NOT be sorry!
What atty do most of you guys and gals use on your ProVari?
Should I try a HV 510? Does that allow more vap production, while keeping the flavor strong and not too hot?
Found a site that carries HV510's for $4.99, rated at 4.8 oHms... does that sound kind of high, or should those work well with the ProVari?
Also, will 801's work with the ProVari, or do we need some kind of adaptor? Any other atty besides 510's, and if so, is there any advantage to using them instead of a 510?
Thanks...still trying to figure this all out!
Shel
Should I try a HV 510? Does that allow more vap production, while keeping the flavor strong and not too hot?
Found a site that carries HV510's for $4.99, rated at 4.8 oHms... does that sound kind of high, or should those work well with the ProVari?
Also, will 801's work with the ProVari, or do we need some kind of adaptor? Any other atty besides 510's, and if so, is there any advantage to using them instead of a 510?
Thanks...still trying to figure this all out!
Shel
Got mine from the mailbox today,charged the battery for about 3 hrs and the light turned green.Put the battery in the provari,put a good atty on it,set at 4.7v,and pressed the button-viola!not hot&harsh like 6v,or cool like 3.7v-just right,first time.The provari is very easy to use and looks a million too!It's a little heavier than I expected,but no wose than a silver bullet or puresmoker v3.1(both great devices too)A really big Thank you to all the peeps at Provape for working many ot hrs. during the holiday season when a lot of people are off work,enjoying time with family and friends,just so us nic junkies can have a new toy to start the new year.2011 looks to be a good year(not smoking cigs.)and the provari will be used daily to satisfy the craving for nic. with style and variation.THANK YOU provape and all your employees!!!
right there with u.................now the wait.........hopefully the begining of jan we well have it and I can stop checking this thread 100 times a day
If litigation is truly the cost of products and not executive salaries and increasing profits, then we need to resolve the system we want. Litigation is the "free market" correcting product defects or, in egregious cases, knowing product defects (like the Pinto). If corporations did not make dangerous or defective products, they would not be held liable. People love to claim the suits are "frivolous," but that's a false talking point. If that were true, corporate counsel would be filing Rule 11 motions against plaintiffs' attorneys or at least getting the cases dismissed for failure to state a claim or getting summary judgment after discovery fails to show an issue of disputed material fact. Any of those solutions is cheaper than settlement. But, that's not happening. As a lawyer (and I do not do products liability or PI, don't like that stuff and wouldn't chase ambulances), I have to watch every move I make, both me and my client can get busted for making a claim that is not reasonably based in both the fact and law (or a good faith argument for a change or extension of the law). Bringing frivolous lawsuits can also be an ethical violation leading to attorney discipline, if the circumstances warrant it.
So, is the problem the lawsuit or the corporation choosing profit over the safety of you or your child (such as with the Pinto and some other instances where companies intentionally hid the danger)? Many other countries may have less products liability cases, but they also have more regulation to protect the public from dangerous products.
So, the choice is either strengthening government regulatory authority to protect the public from product defects and similar matters or allow civil suits as the "free market" deterrent of businesses introducing dangerous and defective products. I always find it interesting that "free market" types want no regulation and no litigation or "tort reform." But, they tend to change their tune when their child dies from salmonella in spinach or gets brain damage from lead paint in toys and they realize the "free market" didn't prevent it.
Personally, I see some benefit to China's approach to corporate wrong doing. They use the death penalty. I think that's a bit extreme, but I do think you could reduce litigation and product defects if those in charge had to pay a serious penalty, not just a fine or damages award. I have no problem with felony prison sentences (and not in Martha Stewart jail) for heads of corporations that recklessly or intentionally endanger the public. Those maybe should be class 3 and 4 felonies, respectively. Negligent endangerment, maybe a class 5. It's a lot harder to figure out whether a jury award or civil fine is cheaper than product redesign when real jail time is on the other side of the balance sheet. But, again, most "free marketers" would not go for such a thing. Unfortunately, it's not really about "free market," but more about eliminating all corporate restraint and accountability, no matter what its form.
Regardless of the cause, the economic system has broken down. The middle class does not exist naturally. The U.S. had no middle class before the Depression. The creation of labor laws, social security, and legalizing of unions created the middle class, not the "free market." The middle class is now disappearing as we try to push our way back to a "free market." Before the Depression, the U.S. economy always wavered between boom and bust. The New Deal steadied the economy and kept it relatively stable, with minor downturns, for about 50 years. We started deregulating because we have no sense of history, and we went boom. Now we've gone bust and it's time to decide whether we want to keep that up and go back to a 19th century America, or get some sense back and keep stability.
As with all things, the answer is neither one extreme or the other. It's about balance -- a balance between free market and regulation in this case to keep a strong and viable economy, including balancing workers and labor against businesses. Either that, or learn to speak Chinese.
I'm ready for my ProVari,
but way down there in the order numbers. - Status
