Quality Build, Minimal Waste - help?

[Lehcar52]

Hi all,
I'm looking to get into vapeing in order to avoid social (and stress) smoking. I don't really need the nicotine, so I'll probably try my hand at mixing my own eliquid sooner rather than later. It's more about the whole ritual of rolling, lighting, etc. rather than a physiological addiction (I'll often stop smoking for months at a time if I'm not in the mood for one).

I've played around a bit with friend's ecigs (all black thin mini's that have a blue glow LED, nice but I'm not sure of the actual models), and I'm at the point that I'd like to get my own. I figured I'd just do a bit of research, instead of just buying a cheap intro device; and am now rather overwhelmed.

I'm hoping some of the lovely experts that hang around here can help me out in recommending a few appropriate models.

-I don't need the PV to look or feel like a cigarette (actually, the whole white-orange tip look really puts me off), but I'd rather not be dealing with a massive device either.
-I would like to create as little waste as possible, and so would be happy to pay extra for a higher-end model that doesn't need new cartridges (or tanks, etc.) as often - actually, are there any devices out there that don't need regular replacement parts?
-I don't really have a preference between cartridges, cartomizers or tanks, but I'd really like to avoid 'drip' application (seems a bit too conspicuous when I'm in public). I'd be interested in avoiding the poly-fillers that are used to 'hold' the eliquid in cartridges though.
-I'd never use it for much longer than 1-2hours before being able to charge it back up, so battery size doesn't matter too much.
-Clean flavour is more important than throat hit, and I'm interested in using VG liquid (so would need a device that doesn't get gummed up as easily?).
-I don't mind some technical work, or having to take apart and clean the device or it's components on a regular basis - just as long as I don't have to do it in the middle of a pint with friends!

My biggest focus really is the wastage, and first priority is to find a PV that will use as few disposable parts as possible. I live in Canada, but travel pretty often to the UK, and so can order parts and accessories from either country. It will only be light use, but I don't want to have to replace the device again in a year (if I can avoid it).

If anyone could help me out with suggestions, recommendations, etc. I would very much appreciate it!

Thanks in advance; I'll look forward to chatting with people here!

-Leah

 

[Telescope Neil]

Since you're not gonna use it all the time, a smaller PV would rather work. I'm gonna recommend an ego twist/Vision Spinner, they look almost the same as what you described what your friend had with the blue LED, but it's Variable Voltage, meaning you could adjust the power output of your device depending on the ohms of your attached atomizer. For a tank, a mini vivi nova is a great one. I use the regular sized one, but since it will also be lightly used, the mini is good enough, and also a plus for aesthetics. The Kanger T3 is great too.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

I second the Vision Spinner - Vivi Nova set-up. You really cant go wrong with them. Especially if you dont mind rebuilding the Nova with stainless steel mesh; once you do, you almost never have to replace it again.

Seeing that you dont mind paying for durable, high-end stuff, i will go ahead and reccommend (yes, i hate to say it) a Provari mini. As much as i am against the hype about them, the truth is if you dont mind the price, you cannot go wrong with them.

As for tanks, since you dont mind a bit of tinkering around, i suggest getting a Rebuildable Atomizer system. They take some time and patience to get working, but once you do, its extremely clean flavor cannot be beaten. I reccommend an AGA-T+, the same as im using; very nice unit at low price. RBAs are the only one i would reccommend you get cheaper ones first, since they have a learning curve, are not for everybody, and honestly there cant be that much difference in vape quality between a well-built low price unit and a high-end $100 one.

To summarize, here are the options:

Vision Spinner and Vivi Nova - cheap and get the job done, extremely easy to use, and good quality vape.

Or

Provari mini with AGA-T+ - should cost right under $200 if you include charger, batteries, wire, mesh, tools etc... But is a pick up and go setup once done, and excellent quality vape.

 

[Carling]

+1 for the Provari Mini.

 

[Trick]

The "disposable" part really isn't going to come from your PV... anything with a 510 connector (from a little eGo up to a Vamo the size of a baseball bat) will allow you to use any atomizer with a standard connector. In general, though, bigger batteries will last longer, though, so you'll need to figure out whether size or dead batteries are more of a concern for you.

Personally, if I was looking to minimize waste, I'd go with one of the bigger PVs... like, say, a Provari Mini at the expensive end, and eVic around mid-range (though I'd had two of them die on me so I'm not recommending them too highly right now), to a Vamo, Innokin SVD or inexpensive mechanical on the low end. Something like the iTaste MVP might also be worth looking at as well.

Where most of your waste will come from, though, is your atomizers. However, there are certainly options which produce less waste than others. With most rebuildable atomizers, if you're willing to adjust to the learning curve, you won't produce more waste than maybe a couple inches of cotton and a tiny piece of wire every month or longer. While some can be a pain to deal with, there are others that really aren't too difficult. Those with silica or cotton wick setups often aren't any more difficult than wrapping a wire around a wick, connecting the two ends to a couple of screws, and vaping. In a few weeks or longer when the coil or wick give out, you just rewrap it, rather than throwing the whole thing out. Something like a Phoneix rebuildable can live for practically ever, with a minimum of stuff you ever have to throw out -- the only real downside is the learning curve. They're not as easy as just screwing on an atomizer, though they're not rocket surgery, either.

 

[WattWick]

I've gone through tons of stuff since I started out about a month ago. Last couple of days I've mainly used eGo Twist batteries with a Vision Eternity. Somehow I wish I started out with this setup. There's also clones of the Eternity... and other, dare I call them large-capacity drippers? Once I've forgotten about the large amounts of money I've spent on duds, I think I'll look into 14500 or 18350 mods. I like my Vamo, but it's too big to take out of the house, imho.

Not trying to be a Provari hater, but I feel the future of vaping is in VW (variable watts), not "just" VV (variable voltage) and I would be really surprised if a Provari VW wasn't around the corner. I don't want to spent $150+ on something that might get a major revision during the next half a year.

 

[klynnn]

I agree I think VW is the next wave for the future. I have both the reg provari and the vamo and actually prefer the vamo with the vw capability. Also have a zmax on order, I can't imagine provari not going to vw in the future. The provari build is a much higher class than most of the others though.

 

[PLANofMAN]

The "disposable" part really isn't going to come from your PV... anything with a 510 connector (from a little eGo up to a Vamo the size of a baseball bat) will allow you to use any atomizer with a standard connector. In general, though, bigger batteries will last longer, though, so you'll need to figure out whether size or dead batteries are more of a concern for you.

Personally, if I was looking to minimize waste, I'd go with one of the bigger PVs... like, say, a Provari Mini at the expensive end, and eVic around mid-range (though I'd had two of them die on me so I'm not recommending them too highly right now), to a Vamo, Innokin SVD or inexpensive mechanical on the low end. Something like the iTaste MVP might also be worth looking at as well.

Where most of your waste will come from, though, is your atomizers. However, there are certainly options which produce less waste than others. With most rebuildable atomizers, if you're willing to adjust to the learning curve, you won't produce more waste than maybe a couple inches of cotton and a tiny piece of wire every month or longer. While some can be a pain to deal with, there are others that really aren't too difficult. Those with silica or cotton wick setups often aren't any more difficult than wrapping a wire around a wick, connecting the two ends to a couple of screws, and vaping. In a few weeks or longer when the coil or wick give out, you just rewrap it, rather than throwing the whole thing out. Something like a Phoneix rebuildable can live for practically ever, with a minimum of stuff you ever have to throw out -- the only real downside is the learning curve. They're not as easy as just screwing on an atomizer, though they're not rocket surgery, either.

This.^^^^
I don't see ProVape jumping on the variable watt bandwagon anytime soon. It's just a different way to achieve the same results. (in my opinion) The ProVari mini offers extreme reliability in a compact package.

I also second using a rebuildable atomizer. If you buy one with the capability of using stainless mesh wicks, you will get a pure tasting vape every time. There is a steep learning curve, but the entry price is pretty low. The main difference between a high and low end rebuildable atomizer is pretty slim, with material and build quality being the main difference.

 

[Lehcar52]

Wow, what great information! Thanks so much for the feedback guys; I'll look through your suggestions now that I have a better idea what to look for. I imagine, what with the 'steep learning' curve, I'll be around for a while with questions. =P Thanks again!

 

[PLANofMAN]

Wow, what great information! Thanks so much for the feedback guys; I'll look through your suggestions now that I have a better idea what to look for. I imagine, what with the 'steep learning' curve, I'll be around for a while with questions. =P Thanks again!

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nyone-tried-aga-tiamat-plus-w-glass-tank.html
This is probably the best thread right now for discussing the best techniques for rebuilding atomizers with stainless mesh.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nyone-tried-aga-tiamat-plus-w-glass-tank.html
This is probably the best thread right now for discussing the best techniques for rebuilding atomizers with stainless mesh.

I second that thread. I got my RBAs up and running in virtually no time thanks to the information there. And once you got it down, rebuilding it takes less than 10 mins and a setup lasts for months before you have to rebuild again.

 

[WattWick]

This.^^^^
I don't see ProVape jumping on the variable watt bandwagon anytime soon. It's just a different way to achieve the same results. (in my opinion) The ProVari mini offers extreme reliability in a compact package.

Hope noone reads this as anti-Provari. I'd like to point out, however, that imho, VW is the easier way of achieving the same result. I don't agree on it being a "bandwagon" (quite a negative word there). It's simply the next logical step after being able to measure resistance, which the Provari is already capable of. I can't imagine ProVape releasing a new Provari without the ability to act on this information. It's a feature, not a prison. Me not wanting a VV-only Provari is just down to upgrade-mania. I'm sure the current generation will be perfectly fine for years to come.

Sorry for straying off topic!

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Hi Lehcar52 and welcome to ECF. Here are the diff classes of PV/ Personal Vaporier/ Ecig. Realize "Mods/ Larger PVs" with separate batteries are not included. In regards to "mah"...battery info- 100 mah= 1 hr of normal vaping before recharge is needed...example: a 650 mah battery should last about 6 hrs before recharge is needed. The batteries below are "disposable" but can be recharged- each good for about 250- 300 recharges.

eGo Class- 510 threading:
JoyTech eGo fires @ 3.4 volts, SmokTech eGo fires @ 3.7 volts and the Riva/ Kgo fires @ 3.7 volts- come in 650, 900 or 1100 mah depending on the manufacturer- most popular 510 threading/ connection and are manual. I own a Kgo and I LOVE it. Have used the JoyTech eGo and prefer the Kgo because of the higher voltage.
eGo Starter Kit cost anywhere from $50+.
Riva/ Kgo starter kit costs about $40-$50

Mini Variable Volt PV: 510 threading/ connection. Manual Batteries.- cost for a full stater kit about $90.00
Kgo VV- only comes in 650 mah- I own it and find battery life a problem and don't like the button. Apparently the new version has a better button.

Twist comes in 650, 900 and 1000 mah. Dial very narrow/ smooth and not easy to turn. Voltage numbers very hard to read/ invisible. Button occasionally sticks.

Vision Spinner comes in 400, 650, 900, 1100 and 1300 mah. Wide knurled voltage dial easy to turn and easy to read voltage markings. 1300 mah Spinner is the same size as 1000 Twist.
Both variable voltage PVs above fire from 3.3-4.8 volts.
I owned the Twists and now use them as backups because the dial was hard to turn and I could not clearly see the voltage markings.
1300 Vision Spinner- 113mm or ~4.4 inches long; 16MM WIDE, 2MM WIDER THAN A STANDARD EGO
1100 Vision Spinner- 119mm or ~4.75 inches long
1000 Twist- Length 120mm(4.75")/Diameter 14mm

Advantage of the VV- when stressed and need a stronger hit I can easily and quickly dial up the voltage.

Take your time in choosing

 

[The Ocelot]

Hi all...

I'm looking to get into vapeing in order to avoid social (and stress) smoking. I don't really need the nicotine, so I'll probably try my hand at mixing my own eliquid sooner rather than later. It's more about the whole ritual of rolling, lighting, etc. rather than a physiological addiction (I'll often stop smoking for months at a time if I'm not in the mood for one).

I'm hoping some of the lovely experts that hang around here can help me out in recommending a few appropriate models.

-I don't need the PV to look or feel like a cigarette (actually, the whole white-orange tip look really puts me off), but I'd rather not be dealing with a massive device either.

Not a problem. There many devices that are not "cig-a-likes," but aren't massive either. There are eGo/Kgo-type batteries, that are thick like a Sharpie Pen and come in different colors and lengths from mini: eGo Mini 350mAh Battery - Black

to 4-5 inches VISION Spinner Variable Voltage eGo 3.3-4.8 1300mah - PURPLE [gv-VisionSpinner1300mah-PURPLE] - $29.95 : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

The "mAh" notation stands for "milliampere-hour," which is how long a battery will last between charges; 100mAh ≈ 1 hour of use. It is also an indication of size - the higher the mAh, the longer the battery. The lengthiest of these batteries usually offer the option of variable voltage.

Another small type of device is a "Box Mod," which are available with various features and made of different materials: 3.7 Volt Box Mod - Mr Vape Inc.

5 Volt Wood Box Mod

-I would like to create as little waste as possible, and so would be happy to pay extra for a higher-end model that doesn't need new cartridges (or tanks, etc.) as often - actually, are there any devices out there that don't need regular replacement parts?

No. All e-cigarettes are made up of the same basic components: a power source (the battery), a heating element (what vaporizes the liquid), and a delivery system (what holds the liquid and delivers it to the heating element). While some components are designed to last longer (containing replaceable batteries) or have replaceable (disposable after use) heating elements, for the most part everything is ultimately designed as consumable.

-I don't really have a preference between cartridges, cartomizers or tanks, but I'd really like to avoid 'drip' application (seems a bit too conspicuous when I'm in public). I'd be interested in avoiding the poly-fillers that are used to 'hold' the eliquid in cartridges though.

The poly-fill/batting material is in a "cartomizer" (carto), which has a heating element (coil), enclosed in filler (which holds the liquid and delivers it to the heating element), contained in a metal tube. These can come pre-filled, or blank (that you fill with you own liquid). Pre-filled cartos are sometimes referred to as "cartridges" by some vendors.

As you surmise, dripping would be conspicuous, as well as inconvenient, out at the pub.

If you don't want poly-fill, your choices are small "tanks" - containers that hold liquid. "Carto Tanks" consist of a carto inside of a tank, and since you don't want poly-fill that knocks them out. The remaining products vary in size, depending on how much liquid they hold and how they are used. They can range from things like an old-style, although still often used, eGo-T system: http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/201112/China_Ego_C_new_Ego_T_atomizer_Tank_cartridges_starter_kit201112291604183.jpg

To the popular "Vivi Nova": http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4000/35845/products/136/images/351/Vision_Vivi_Nova_V3_1__97937.1351013200.1280.1280.jpg

-I'd never use it for much longer than 1-2hours before being able to charge it back up, so battery size doesn't matter too much.

This would be determined by the mAh of the battery you choose.

-Clean flavour is more important than throat hit, and I'm interested in using VG liquid (so would need a device that doesn't get gummed up as easily?).

Flavor is very subjective; what I like, you might not. Should you choose to use a high ratio VG liquid, and don't select an eGo-T (which doesn't use a wicking system), you may have a more consistent vape with a "bottom coil."

"Clearomizer" type products can be "top coil" (like the Vivi Nova or a CE4/5), where the heating element is on the top and the liquid is delivered to the coil by a string-like wick or "bottom coil," where the heating element is at the bottom of the tank, like a CE3 or a Kanger T3: http://www.steam-smoke.de/images/articles/44ba542c1d98e9279da84eca242f519a_5.jpg

VG is quite viscous and sometimes doesn't travel very well up the wicks to top coils.

-I don't mind some technical work, or having to take apart and clean the device or it's components on a regular basis - just as long as I don't have to do it in the middle of a pint with friends!

Then, in my opinion, you will not want a variable voltage device at this time. It is overkill. While they do provide a superior vape, they are designed for "serious" vapers - those of us who are focused on vaping and seek the ultimate experience. If you just want to vape while out with friends you don't need to spend the extra money on a variable voltage device that is meant to be fiddled around with. VVs also tend to be a bit larger.

Yep, The Ocelot has gone on another long tirade - but the OP asked specific questions and deserves specific advice. He is not a regular smoker and is looking for a simple device he can play with and use when he goes out to the pub. Someday he may want something more advanced and expensive (or maybe he will now after reading these threads), but responding to his inquiry by saying he needs a VAMO, ProVari (yes, I have one), RBA or maybe even a Twist/Spinner (due to size), is inappropriate. This is completely my personal opinion, you are most certainly entitled to yours.

^Rawr

 

[PLANofMAN]

Hope noone reads this as anti-Provari. I'd like to point out, however, that imho, VW is the easier way of achieving the same result. I don't agree on it being a "bandwagon" (quite a negative word there). It's simply the next logical step after being able to measure resistance, which the Provari is already capable of. I can't imagine ProVape releasing a new Provari without the ability to act on this information. It's a feature, not a prison. Me not wanting a VV-only Provari is just down to upgrade-mania. I'm sure the current generation will be perfectly fine for years to come.

Sorry for straying off topic!

I don't see that as being anti ProVari at all, and I hope no one else does either. I probably shouldn't have used the word "bandwagon," but I have seen many vapers pass up a ProVari because it didn't have variable wattage, only to realize later that they would have been fine without it. I called Variable Wattage a "crutch" on another thread a couple of weeks ago and got justifiably flamed for it. To the OP: As long as whatever device you pick has a variable power output, you will do fine. The big question will come down to features, durability and disposability, and that is a choice you will have to make for yourself.

Edit: I agree with Ocelot's post above, except for her comments about variable voltage. Most VV users dial in the best setting (for them and the carto, tank, or whatever juice delivery device they happen to be using) and tend to leave it there. I adjust my settings once or twice a week, if that.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

"Yep, The Ocelot has gone on another long tirade - but the OP asked specific questions and deserves specific advice. He is not a regular smoker and is looking for a simple device he can play with and use when he goes out to the pub. Someday he may want something more advanced and expensive (or maybe he will now after reading these threads), but responding to his inquiry by saying he needs a VAMO, ProVari (yes, I have one) or maybe even a Twist?Spinner (due to size), is inappropriate. This is completely my personal opinion, you are most certainly entitled to yours."

I think it's a excellent post Very well thought out and very OP personalized.

Not a problem. There many devices that are not "cig-a-likes," but aren't massive either. There are eGo/Kgo-type batteries, that are thick like a Sharpie Pen and come in different colors and lengths from mini: eGo Mini 350mAh Battery - Black

to 4-5 inches VISION Spinner Variable Voltage eGo 3.3-4.8 1300mah - PURPLE [gv-VisionSpinner1300mah-PURPLE] - $29.95 : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

The "mAh" notation stands for "milliampere-hour," which is how long a battery will last between charges; 100mAh ≈ 1 hour of use. It is also an indication of size - the higher the mAh, the longer the battery. The lengthiest of these batteries usually offer the option of variable voltage.

Another small type of device is a "Box Mod," which are available with various features and made of different materials: 3.7 Volt Box Mod - Mr Vape Inc.

5 Volt Wood Box Mod

No. All e-cigarettes are made up of the same basic components: a power source (the battery), a heating element (what vaporizes the liquid), and a delivery system (what holds the liquid and delivers it to the heating element). While some of the more expensive components are designed to last longer (or contain replaceable batteries), for the most part everything is designed as consumable.



The poly-fill/batting material is in a "cartomizer" (carto), which has a heating element (coil), enclosed in filler (which holds the liquid and delivers it to the heating element), contained in a metal tube. These can come pre-filled, or blank (that you fill with you own liquid). Pre-filled cartos are sometimes referred to as "cartridges" by some vendors.

As you surmise, dripping would be conspicuous, as well as inconvenient, out at the pub.

If you don't want poly-fill, your choices are small "tanks" - containers that hold liquid. "Carto Tanks" consist of a carto inside of a tank, and since you don't want poly-fill that knocks them out. The remaining products vary in size, depending on how much liquid they hold and how they are used. They can range from things like an old-style, although still often used, eGo-T system: http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/201112/China_Ego_C_new_Ego_T_atomizer_Tank_cartridges_starter_kit201112291604183.jpg

To the popular "Vivi Nova": http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4000/35845/products/136/images/351/Vision_Vivi_Nova_V3_1__97937.1351013200.1280.1280.jpg

This would be determined by the mAh of the battery you choose.


Flavor is very subjective; what I like, you might not. Should you choose to use a high ratio VG liquid, and don't select an eGo-T (which doesn't use a wicking system), you may have a more consistent vape with a "bottom coil."

"Clearomizer" type products can be "top coil" (like the Vivi Nova or a CE4/5), where the heating element is on the top and the liquid is delivered to the coil by a string-like wick or "bottom coil," where the heating element is at the bottom of the tank, like a CE3 or a Kanger T3: http://www.steam-smoke.de/images/articles/44ba542c1d98e9279da84eca242f519a_5.jpg

VG is quite viscous and sometimes doesn't travel very well up the wicks to top coils.

Then, in my opinion, you will not want a variable voltage device at this time. It is overkill. While they do provide a superior vape, they are designed for "serious" vapers - those of us who are focused on vaping and seek the ultimate experience. If you just want to vape while out with friends you don't need to spend the extra money on a variable voltage device that is meant to be fiddled around with. VVs also tend to be a bit larger.

Yep, The Ocelot has gone on another long tirade - but the OP asked specific questions and deserves specific advice. He is not a regular smoker and is looking for a simple device he can play with and use when he goes out to the pub. Someday he may want something more advanced and expensive (or maybe he will now after reading these threads), but responding to his inquiry by saying he needs a VAMO, ProVari (yes, I have one), RBA or maybe even a Twist?Spinner (due to size), is inappropriate. This is completely my personal opinion, you are most certainly entitled to yours.

^Rawr

 

[PLANofMAN]

-I would like to create as little waste as possible, and so would be happy to pay extra for a higher-end model that doesn't need new cartridges (or tanks, etc.) as often - actually, are there any devices out there that don't need regular replacement parts?

I think some of us were getting hung up on this, I know I was. Based on this, if you don't mind going with an eGo style battery, that is probably the best choice for you. You do need to be aware that they can break and are considered disposable. If it does not break, then you should expect to get 6 months to a year's worth of use out of one before having to replace it. You can buy clearomizers (the stardust and CE3 styles are popular, as are the Kanger MT3's) or small Vivi Nova tanks for these and still keep the size pretty small. Both use replaceable atomizer heads that can be purchased separately.

 

[WattWick]

I think it is worth noting that if one does not want variable voltage, it is of some importance to get regulated voltage. Unregulated batteries start out at ~4.2v and cut out at ~3.2-3.3v. What tastes good at 3.8v might taste slightly burnt at 4.2v and nothing at all at 3.3v. This caused some frustration before I figured out what was going on.

I guess if fiddling about is not wanted, sticking to regulated voltage and a fairly trustworthy atty brand (in regards of resistance) is the way to go. I think... I'm no expert.

To cut down on waste generation, I'd advice not to store Lithium batteries fully charged. Their shelf life is considerably decreased when doing so. It's not easy, but charging on demand is the better option. The effect is cumulative. Leaving them charged for a day every now and then add up over time. If treated right, battery life is measured in charge cycles, not time. ... to some extent.

 

[Lehcar52]

Wow, again, fantastic info. I can't get over how helpful and responsive everyone is!

Ocelot, thanks so much for trying to be more specific in your explanations and suggestions; are the batteries + etc. you've mentioned compatible with the rebuildable atomizer some of the others have suggested?

PLANofMAN, the wastage thing is my first priority really, so it's not a bad thing that you were focusing on it!

I'm in England for another couple of weeks, and am hoping to order equipment from here (since it is generally cheaper, and there is much better selection!). What are the chances someone could recommend a RBA or supplier available in the UK?

 

[Caridwen]

If you're not a smoker and you're going to only use it in social situations for 'light use' I'd get a KR808 or 510 with a PCC.

I have a little 510 mini with a PCC and use it occasionally- (going out) and I've had the same one for about a year.