Quality Control?

[whitetortuga]

I am going to vent for a bit, and hopefully someone can come up with a solution. I used to an ego battery with a boge 2.0 carto. Those things were great. They would last 1 week +/-, and the flavor was excellent. Well things change and I upgraded to a ego passthrough. It was awesome, never failed on me. I gave it away to someone as the new T and C ego passthroughs came out. I still used the boges but eventually I'd get 1 or 2 dead ones in a box so I looked for something else. I found the ego stardust and they were excellent (for a while). Eventually they started to get worse and worse and I got less time with them. Same thing with the kangers. 3 months of use, and my ego passthrough breaks. It flickers a red light on the bottom but will not charge. Ugh, luckily I have a twist and a lava tube. Well, I decide to upgrade to the vivi nova. Wow, my first one was great! I order some new wicks and, well, it wasn't so great anymore. The first worked, the second, and the third was dead. So I decided a new vendor and a new vivi nova all together. It worked AMAZING out of the box. Then about 4 days later it starts to get shotty. I replace the head, really no fire at all. I use the third one and it hits, but very poorly. So much for V3.

Am I having bad luck or what is going on? Has quality control gone to ....? I remember saving so much money, but these tanks aren't cheap anymore! Boges, you could find for around $5 a pack! What is going on? Hopefully SOMEONE can help!

Sorry for the long rant!

 

[Rocketpunk]

I hear you, OP. My VVN did the same exact thing, and it was even the genuine Vision VVN, and not the knock offs.

It could be a mixture of several things, QC, juice, etc.

I have and still use my VVN (managed to resurrect the 2.4 ohm atty), but only as a back up. I found much, much, MUCH better quality and consistancy in carto tanks.

 

[Baditude]

Ok, this is not meant to sound racist. I am not spouting nationalism, although on the surface it may seem so. The vast majority of vaping products come from China, right? And the quality control of a lot of vaping gear leaves much to be desired. It's my opinion that the poor quality control seen in many of our vaping products can be blamed on the Chinese business principle. And an equal amount of responsibility on us for willingly accepting it.

The rising popularity of vaping to replace smoking is resulting in an incredible increase in demand for products that the Chinese are having trouble keeping up with demand. The business principle in China is such that competition for world currancy is frantic between competitive manufacturers racing to put out the latest so-called "improved" products when in reality it is the same product with basically a minimum of worthwhile upgrades. Much of the time we are getting hoodwinked.

There are no labor laws in China. I can only imagine what the assembly lines must be like in the factories. Recall what it was like during the U.S.'s very own "industrial revolution" when women and children worked morning 'til night doing the same mundane task for minimum wage. Line leaders figuratively cracking the whip to keep product moving to meet increased demand and trying to meet production deadlines. Quality suffers as quantity is emphasized.

China has become the world leader in many product categories because of cheap labor practices and in many cases subpar working conditions. Manufacturer CEO priorities are not into making a quality product, but because they are the only game in town, their priorities are to saturate the world with products of every and any kind of quality because the world market will snatch up anything offered to them. The very nature of the necessity to purchase vaping products online because of a lack of brick-and-mortar stores requires purchases to be ordered sight unseen, which likely contributes to the frustration of consumers.

There's something wrong with this picture, and I don't know how to fix it. I do know that I would begrudingly pay more if I could be convinced that the product would work right out of the box and not require fiddling with equipment to make it work right, or be DOA like too many of the products come. New products are being manufactured and distributed to vendors without traditional beta testing. All too often, we the consumers end up being the beta testers. There's something not right about that, too.

Does anyone else agree with me?

 

[Buggs5347]

Oh, don't get me started. It's irritating as all get out.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I agree with you.. But what can we do? I mean, seriously, what can we do as purchasers? Nothing, pretty much. I have many opinions on China and what/how they will shape the future world. But I'm a closeted apocalypse nut, and I'm choosing to err on the side of caution and not share my opinions online.

 

[Flexxx]

There does need to be more U.S. made products in the vaping industry.

Actually anything besides China made that is....

I'm a knife guy and love buying knives, most all my knives are made in the U.S.
ESEE, BHK, BRKT....all very good knives, got a few from china and gave them away.

 

[Rocketpunk]

Flexxx, I am a samurai sword guy. (Yes, snicker, but it's my other hobby - I know I am a nerd and embrace that fact openly.) Surprisingly, even if they are "hand-forged" (not by a wizened samurai Yoda type, but a couple of dudes using a stamp-press), they almost always come from China. I've purchased 4 katanas, between $50 and $300, and every single one was made in China.

Joss Whedon was a prophet when he created the Anglo Sino Alliance in Firefly. He was waaaay ahead of the curve. America the number one industrial giant? Yes. We are, right now. China, though... Give 'em a decade at their current rate, we're looking at another superpower.

 

[sawlight]

This has been going on as long as I've been around here and will continue to do so for a long time I'm sure! The Chinese don't really understand quality control, they aren't paid to! They are paid to produce! Much like the original Model "T", take two model T's apart, mix and match the parts, then try and put them back together! It will take you months to accomplish this! Take two 2004 F-150's apart, mix and match the parts and reassemble them, they go together like butter! We have developed tolerances, SPC, CAD/CAM etc. to improve the process. They don't understand this yet, but they will, and we will pay then!
I'm as guilty as the next person, so I'm not laying blame on anyone..............
We have become a NOW and disposable group of people! We want it now, and we don't want to pay any more than we have to for it! Are you willing to pay $5 a carto for American made quality? I doubt it! You can buy a box of five for that price, it two don't work, "OH well!" Are you willing to put out $200 for a Provari or around $50 for a Lava tube (or clone) and move on when it craps out in a couple of months?
Our own greed and laziness has put us in this position! Remember when a TV lasted for 15 years? Do you think your new flat screen will last that long? Laptop, what, three years? At best?
Just stop and think about it for a minute, how long do you expect things to last and how much are you willing to pay? Buy the Sony flat screen that will last, or the WalMart Visio for half the price or less?
As I said, I'm as guilty as the next person, but we've done this to ourselves.

 

[RoseB]

It is disgusting and I am glad it has been brought up. It could be a good boost to the American economy (manufacturing here). The question is who would open these plants? Not only is Chinese labor cheap some of it is prison labor. I personally would feel better knowing I paid for something that was a higher quality and the people making it got paid a wage. Worth forking out the extra cash.

 

[vsummer1]

So buy a PV made in another country. More expensive, but built to last. Or keep buying chinese disposables. Bite the bullet up front, or spend little bits at a time until you spend more than the quality.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Baditude]

I agree with you.. But what can we do? I mean, seriously, what can we do as purchasers? Nothing, pretty much.

Well, I have been criticised here by some ECF members for promoting a certain well known American APV manufacturer because I made mention that their product was worth the higher cost because of higher American standands of manufacturing, materials, durability, accuracy, consistancy, and customer service...compared to cheaper Chinese APV models.

The three APVs that I own happen to be all made in the USA. That fact alone isn't why I chose to purchase them. But I honestly believe that they are of a higher quality than most of the Chinese models that I could have chosen from at a cheaper cost. I have confidence in buying from an American manufacturer because I know that should I have a problem with my device, even after the warranty expires, I can still get it fixed.

But there are those who seem to imply that paying more for American quality is somehow foolish when a cheaper device (from China) does the same thing for half the price. They report that they will have gotten their money's worth even if it only works up until the warranty expires (usually 6 months), even though at that point there will be no recourse but to buy another mod as Chinese manufacturers do not provide after-warranty service of any kind.

I realize people have to work within their personal budgets, and every individual has a choice to buy what they want or need. It just irked me when I got the words "nationalist" and "racist" thrown at me for making the comments like I said in my previous post.

 

[sawlight]

Well, I have been criticised here by some ECF members for promoting a certain well known American APV manufacturer because I made mention that their product was worth the higher cost because of a higher standand of manufacturing, materials, durability, accuracy, consistancy, and customer service...compared to cheaper Chinese APV models.

The three APVs that I own happen to be all made in the USA. That fact alone isn't why I chose to purchase them. But I honestly believe that they are of a higher quality than most of the Chinese models that I could have chosen from at a cheaper cost. I have confidence in buying from an American manufacturer because I know that should I have a problem with my device, even after the warranty expires, I can still get it fixed.

But there are those who seem to imply that paying more for American quality is somehow foolish when a cheaper device (from China) does the same thing for half the price. They report that they will have gotten their money's worth even if it only works up until the warranty expires (usually 6 months), even though at that point there will be no recourse but to buy another mod as Chinese manufacturers do not provide after warranty service of any kind.

I realize people have to work within their personal budgets, and every individual has a choice to buy what they want or need. It just irked me when I get the word "nationalist" and "racist" thrown at me for making the comments like I said in my previous post.

Not to go off on you, you are one of the more mellow ones for sure, but I've been trying to read reviews on VV devices and some of the fan boys do become rather "rabid" on this subject! Enough so it's put me off quite a bit! I'm all for US made, and that's enough to sell me most of the way, but a few go on tangents that make no sense at all? "OK, you like it this way, but this one will do this as well as another way, they both work! Just one is half the price, and money is tight!" Then we go off into oblivion.............
Sorry, been wanting to say that for a couple of days now. Carry on.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I'm working with what I have, and what I have is Chinese. This is like the industrial revolution all over again, only it's the 21st century. I have this nagging feeling in the back of my neck that a lot of these Chinese workers are... well... enslaved. I don't know where to take this post. I don't want to get banned. And I don't mean to offend. I think the best thing for me right now is to go to bed. Goodnight, ECF.

 

[kiwivap]

I realize people have to work within their personal budgets, and every individual has a choice to buy what they want or need. It just irked me when I got the words "nationalist" and "racist" thrown at me for making the comments like I said in my previous post.

I haven't seen anyone call you a racist. Is there a post I missed? I don't think you are a racist myself. I did respond to you one particular post, that was saying some things in the context of a discussion on that thread. I did say in response to a couple of your comments that I thought it was a nationalistic argument. Nationalistic is not the same as racist. And I still think you were making a nationalistic argument on those points in that post, on that thread.

I'm not afraid to come here and respond directly Bad. I'll talk to you rather than putting up posts on other threads about you that are out of the original context.

 

[Baditude]

I haven't seen anyone call you a racist. Is there a post I missed? I don't think you are a racist myself. I did respond to you one particular post, that was saying some things in the context of a discussion on that thread. I did say in response to a couple of your comments that I thought it was a nationalistic argument. Nationalistic is not the same as racist. And I still think you were making a nationalistic argument on those points in that post, on that thread.

I'm not afraid to come here and respond directly Bad. I'll talk to you rather than putting up posts on other threads about you that are out of the original context.

There was a thread about a month ago that was a typical xxx mod vs Provari discussion that I got involved in because a particular individual was making false claims about provari's breaking and provape giving bad customer service. I had never seen such claims. The individual gave some quick google links to prove his point. I took a little time to check them out and they were all hogwash. He never took the time to see how each event worked out. I called him out for making up and reporting false information. He is the one who called me a racist and a nationalist. I'm not certain, but I believe this person is Asian or Asian-American. Since then we have had kind of a running feud or rivalry.

 

[kiwivap]

There was a thread about a month ago that was a typical xxx mod vs Provari discussion that I got involved in because a particular individual was making false claims about provari's breaking and provape giving bad customer service. I had never seen such claims. The individual gave some quick google links to prove his point. I took a little time to check them out and they were all hogwash. I called him out for making up and reporting false information. He is the one who called me a racist and a nationalist. I'm not certain, but I believe this person is Asian or Asian-American. Since then we have had kind of a running feud or rivalry.

Well I'm sorry that happened. Given that we both posted in a thread yesterday I do feel your comments here lumped that into it. I sent you a PM just now.

 

[Baditude]

Well I'm sorry that happened. Given that we both posted in a thread yesterday I do feel your comments here lumped that into it. I sent you a PM just now.

My comments about being called a racist or nationalist in this thread had nothing to do with our debate the other nite. We are kool. Actually, I think you might be on my friends list.

 

[jazzbo]

Vaping products are hardly rocket science...we're talking about a coil and some sort of wick, after all. Some variations, but it is what it is. I believe the biggest part of the problem is that American business can no longer effectively plan ahead or even attempt to innovate beyond certain items because of our Byzantine tax codes and our ludicrous political "regulations." I've heard many people complain that businesses don't even bother to plan beyond the next quarter much less the next 5 years or decade, and they're right. They're just blaming the wrong people.

It's hard to effectively plan ahead when you never know what sort of nonsense is going to waft out of the Beltway, or what tax incentives may or may not be around next year or next election cycle. I've seen this going on for most of my 55 years, and it isn't getting better much. Heck, look at the ridiculous legislation either proposed or in effect around the world regarding e-cigs. Where are the people that will stake their reputation and carve out their claim in a marketplace like that? Who will put millions into R&D and plant building on something that may be heavily restricted in a years time?

However, there will come a "critical mass" where investment money will be forced to look at the vaping community. We, as vapers, need to let those who need to know that we do not appreciate their meddlesome "laws" and edicts. If we were to spend just 10% of the time we spend on these forums and others in actively supporting and helping to carry out the mission of groups like CASAA and others that are seeking to enlighten and educate those who don't know better,things will improve. It's up to US to pave the way so that American manufactures can see the incentives in serving a growing, dedicated consumer block that is willing to support them if they support us.

That's my rant....

 

[Flexxx]

Flexxx, I am a samurai sword guy. (Yes, snicker, but it's my other hobby - I know I am a nerd and embrace that fact openly.) Surprisingly, even if they are "hand-forged" (not by a wizened samurai Yoda type, but a couple of dudes using a stamp-press), they almost always come from China. I've purchased 4 katanas, between $50 and $300, and every single one was made in China.

Joss Whedon was a prophet when he created the Anglo Sino Alliance in Firefly. He was waaaay ahead of the curve. America the number one industrial giant? Yes. We are, right now. China, though... Give 'em a decade at their current rate, we're looking at another superpower.

I will take my ESEE as a survival knife any day over a china made samurai sword.
take one of those swords and baton some Oak wood....

 

[kiwivap]

My comments about being called a racist or nationalist in this thread had nothing to do with our debate the other nite. We are kool. Actually, I think you might be on my friends list.

Thanks Bad, I do believe you are on my friends list also. Sorry for jumping on that and the bit about talking to you not about you.
As you would say, vape on.