Question about salt-based

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Pod_Vaper

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I've never tried salt ejuice before despite the number of pod devices I've tried. I've always vaped 3mg freebase, now using .8 ohm coils in my Zenith tanks at around 11.5-13W.

I'd like to continue to vape 3mg in my Zenith, but I want to use up all these spare pods I have collected and the 3mg has no taste whatsoever. If I try nic salt like recommended for pod devices, what would be a suitable mg? I can't even begin to imagine that I'd want to try a bottle over 12mg, would I? And I'm seeing 36 and 50mg seems to be the most popular options.

Thanks for helping me understand and not choke to death! :)
 

wheelie

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I have Vaped for a long time. Last few years, 6mg at 42.5 watts on single coil rebuildables. Ordered a few mixes and they sent me a Vype epod for free and with 53mg nicsalt. I did buy a couple pods in 32mg nic salts which is better. I keep the tinny little thing in my cell phone case on my belt. Gives me piece of mind if my big vape breaks when I am out working I have a spare. I very seldom carry a second big vape in my truck any more. I just learned to take very little puffs off epod as it is my stealth vape when I don't want people to see. With small vapes, hold it in for 5 seconds and no vapor. Sporting events, malls, working on someone's furnace or fireplace. Saves me from going to my truck. Tonight I got my old mechanical mods out and old Kayfuns and setting them up with nicsalts. I bought 36mg as I notice with the higher nic I vape allot less. Guess what I am saying is the high nic salt is only used for them special times and not even daily use. CHEERS!
 

Jebbn

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Take all the following with a grain of salt. It really only seems to apply to me and doesnt seem to line up with others experience.

Ive been playing around with NS v FB for about a year trying to find comparative mg dose.
I know everyone is different and I know NS and FB are absorbed differently.
The only way I could think of finding a comparative dosage was to vape NS exclusively for 2 weeks to see how many mls I use in that time and then adjust dosage and repeat until I got to around the same ml consumption as FB.
With FB I use 3 to 3.5mg usually and on average 3.6ml a day, this has been consistent for a long time now. I have nearly 2yrs of recorded consumption and dosage data. Im a bit geeky like that.
For me it seems around 8mg to 10mg of NS is equivalent consumption as 3mg to 3.5mg of FB.
Using 3mg NS had my consumption increase quite substantially but never quite feeling satiated.
Difference between 10mg NS and 3mg FB is that the 10mg NS kicks in quicker and maybe a bit harder. I take less draws with NS before I put the vape down but I return to the vape a lot sooner. Less time between sessions.
Vaping 3mg FB takes longer to feel satiated but once I put the vape down I dont return to it for hours.
I vape unflavoured and without any concession much prefer the taste of FB over NS. I also much prefer the way I feel using FB.

I know other people find NS and FB to be equivalent strength but for me it isnt if daily or weekly ml's and mg's are taken into consideration.
 

sonicbomb

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Nic salts were primarily brought to the public attention by Juul as a means of delivering extremely high nicotine levels. They are in my opinion mostly a marketing fad. If you want to use a small device, and you want to use very high nicotine levels then they are apparently more palatable. I've not tried them myself.
I don't really understand the chemistry, but my understanding is it's along the lines of the additives that BT add to cigarettes to increase the effectiveness of tobacco in delivering nicotine into the blood.
 

wheelie

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Nicsalts has added chemicals that naturally come in a tobacco plant. Nothing added in with it that is not already in the growing plant already. In the freebase nic that all of us people used all along those chemicals in nicsalt were removed to make the freebase nicotine more stable. At least that is my understanding of it. Freebase nicotine (what we have been using along) is more refined. CHEERS!
 

vaper1960

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I used to vape 12 mg FB (MTL) One day my subscription service sent 12 mg salts instead. That was fine... very mellow for sure. The main difference I noticed was maybe the salts came on faster but didn't last as long. I'm not into throat hit so never cared about that (if you do then FB it is) I guess, if I was into little pods, I might like the stronger salts, but currently moving on to restricted DL so not interested.
 

Coyote628

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I vape nic salt in high mg. I'm vaping on a cheap disposable pod right now and its 60mg. I guess I have a high tolerance to nicotine as this strength dosen't do anything different to me than 6mg freebase with my dead rabbit. The difference is with the wattage. High mg salt is best with low power devices for sure. I wouldn't try vaping 60mg strength on a low resistance high wattage set up. I made a DIY once at 12mg salt and used it with that kind of set up. It was fairly harsh.
 

Brewdawg1181

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First, you say you use FB, but don't mention whether you DTL or MTL. My comments are based on MTL.

Keep in mind that your brain/body aren't just reliant on nic, but smoking/vaping/inhaling. For me, nic is a minor part of the equation. I do salts in my pods, and keep several on hand. But I mostly do an MTL rta. Pods are 25mg NS, rta's are 14mg FB. Even if I use NS, I need to take a hit just about as frequently as I do with the FB. The pods I use deliver less vapor than my rta, but I wouldn't say half as much. I definitely feel the salts quicker - there's no doubt they get in the bloodstream quicker. Below is a quote from a post I made on another thread explaining it, showing the speed of 2 different NS variations using blood plasma tests.

So really, there is no "equivalent." Depending on the devices you use, I'd try less than double what you use in an atty, and adjust from there. Maybe like my 20NS vs 14FB. But then again, Juul delivers a tiny bit of vapor, so 50mg isn't really crazy. But I also currently use Vladdin & Alto (25mg). Also, take into account that NS virtually removes throat hit (oddly, with NS I feel it more on exhale than inhale), so if (like me) you're dependent on that, you'd need a higher level NS.

Sorry for the long post. I didn't start out to put all this in, but.....

Nic salts do 2 main things, as compared to freebase. The adjusted pH reduces the harshness, making higher nic content tolerable. It also dramatically increases the speed and efficiency in blood absorption. A third effect is that nicotine, when compounded with acids, is a more shelf stable product.

If you read the patent application by Pax Labs for Juul, you'll see that they tested about a half dozen different acid compound formulations vs. cigarettes, and did a pretty exhaustive study, including testing blood plasma nic levels over time, and satisfaction level surveys of participants. The goal was, of course, to replicate the smoking experience. Their test results showed that benzoate was the most effective acid. Here's their comparison chart of blood plasma nic levels over time. You can see that 4% benzoate (red line) is dramatically faster and higher than freebase (yellow).
View attachment 860773

Some may dismiss this as being overstated marketing by Juul. But Blu has been tested by 3rd parties. They use a lactate formula, and although the results are a little different, the overall curves are similar. Here's their chart (note that the time - x axis, is shorter). The top line is a cigarette, green is 25 mg salt, and yellow is 25 mg freebase.
View attachment 860775

Personally, I don't care for nic salts. I have no doubt that it gets into the bloodstream quicker, as I felt the same effect when making my own juice with nic salts. But a big part of the reason I continue to vape is for the throat hit, and salts remove that. I can see the benefit for those that want the nic, but only want the flavor of non-tobacco juices.

I don't believe nic is any more harmful than caffeine, and has many benefits in moderation. Studies show improved cognitive abilities, antioxidant properties, reduced brain cellular loss, and far lower incidence of Parkinson's Disease. You can look it up yourself, and there are many articles, but this is one of the first I found: Nicotine, the Wonder Drug?

And believe it or not, there's not a single credible study - ever - that proves nicotine without combusted tobacco is addictive at all. I found this link when I first started researching it. Nicotine Propaganda It's a good starting point, but I spent many hours beyond this searching for a conclusive study, and could find none. There were many studies done, but since have been rejected due to faulty methodology. Most found it impossible to get the mice/subjects addicted without the smoking aspect. This study, done in 2010 comes closest to actual proof. It involved genetically mutated mice. And while it showed some addictive markings, it also showed that the mice with modified genes no longer acted naturally in other respects, casting doubt on it being actual proof. And it included this statement comparing nic to other drugs:
"...comparatively miniscule withdrawal, no decreased sensitivity/escalating usage, only fractionally as addictive as opiates, alcohol, ........ As an addictive drug, it seems to stand alone in those respects."
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...588874000000/Changeux-2010-NatRevNeurosci.pdf


I believe this is why so many on this forum can gradually decrease nic, even down to zero, yet still find it difficult to quit vaping entirely. Yes, we're all different, but I know for myself, the act/feeling of inhalation is the strongest "addiction" I have. I've quit many times in my life, and was over the need for nic after a couple of days. But after taking millions of hits off of a cigarette over the decades, that's what my brain is programmed to want the most.
 

vaper1960

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I got a small pod device (didn't order it... got it for free) Very restricted airflow and not much vapor, so I mixed some of my MTL juice with with some 48 mg nic (in PG... also to thin the juice) It's working great and with the limited vapor production, it's around 20 mg (freebase) Salt nic would be perfect for this but had to work with what I have. I'm not into "throat hit" at all, but yes. it has that (once again, salts would be better) With my DL RTA, I'm using 6 mg so it's all relative to amount of vapor and style of vaping (including airflow)
 
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