Question for the sub-ohm crowd

[sbmqcy]

So I'm still waiting on my 2.1 to get here (yeah, STILL after I won the auction after business hours just Friday--eager much?) and I've got a question for the <1.0 ohm crowd. So I've seen this chart trotted out several times here on the board, and when I think about what the sub-ohm and super-sub-ohm crowd are doing, I wonder how it squares with the chart.

When I look at that, it seems that pretty much all sub-ohm vaping is occurring in the (dramatic, foreboding organ music) RED ZONE! Some of the stuff I've red suggests that juice would be burning there. What are you folks seeing? My intuition says that, given the numbers of you sub-ohmers, it's unlikely that your juice is on fire and none of you noticed. But what is going on? Do you all use thinner, less sweet juices that tolerate the greater heat? Or is that chart somewhat outdated in terms of the thermal resilience of commonly used juices? Both? Bring the knowledge, please.


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[pdib]

. . . . . . . . . . . .oops.




hey, at least I'm still on that chart! (watt-wise, I mean)

 

[Dturp]

I'm not an electronics expert, I'm not a vaping expert. Hell I'm not an expert at anything, But I can say that the chart there is probably a whole lot of guess work on someones part. I rarely go over 1.4 ohms. And I only go that high on certain flavors. But I also rarely go below .8 ohms because most of my flavors burn at or below that point. There is to much taste and heat preferences to consider anything in vaping a cut and dry by the numbers thing.

 

[pdib]

I think thicker wire is the main thing. Sure, we're creating more wattage; but it's being put to good use heating up a chunk of wire as thick as your arm. That said, we also dramatically increase air flow (coolant) and the energy goes directly into phase changing a whole lot more juice into steam. That chart was devised around 32-36g wire and a tiny little air hole, and a wick the size of a knot of dental floss.

 

[timk]

I for one have never found that chart useful for anything except maybe cartos. It all depends on fire duration, airflow to the coil, how much juice is available to the coil (heat capacity), and what the vaper wants to experience. I have tried a .8ohm on my reo and it was a bit much for me; too warm and too much vapor. But if you like super short drags then it might be right for you. Tried both a micro and regular silica build at .8ohm. Personally like the 1.2-1.5ohm microcoil. Cotton or silica work fine for me and many others. Just my 2 cents.

 

[StarsAndBars]

Not sure how applicable the chart is. Not necessarily referring to the numbers, just the colors.

 

[DoogieTony]

If I'm not mistaken, those charts were created back when 510 dripping atomizers and cartomizers reigned supreme. People weren't building their own coils, notice how sub-ohm is not included in the chart?

It's really just a combination of a properly wrapped coil, wire gauge, wick material, ariflow, and power.

 

[jcalis1394]

That chart is applicable to cartomizers and clearomizers. When I had my Provari and Vamo, I'd look at it and it was pretty much close to spot on. Firing a Vivi Nova at 10 watts was giving me a burnt taste on a 1.8 ohm coil. With rebuildables, that chart doesn't apply to them. The wick is thick, and not choked. The airflow is much better. The wicking is much more efficient and fast. The way juice feeds into RBA's is much more effective and doesn't allow (if properly setup) for juice to taste burnt. I've vaped a 0.3 ohm coil at 38 watts, and it didn't taste burnt at all. If anything a bit muted flavor due to the amount of heat, but flavorful nonetheless.

 

[NicoHolic]

It's still a useful chart for clearomizers, cartomizers, and disposable atomizers, especially when used with eGo Twists/Vision Spinners, and old-fashioned mods, such as the Provari and REO VV Grand, that require you to otherwise remember the different voltages for different resistances in order to get the preferred wattage. It goes about as low in resistance as most regulated mods can support, even with RBAs.

Other than showing mechanical mod users what kind of power to expect over the charge life of their battery with the above juice delivery devices, it isn't relevant to a mechanical mod with RBAs (either RDAs or RTAs). These can handle much more power than clears, cartos, and disposable attys.

 

[yaypudding]

I used that chart when I was starting out and trying to figure what wattage/voltage I should set my device to. I really don't refer to it at all anymore.

I like long cool drags, so I stick to around 1.5ohm. Sub-ohm's are usually too hot and too much throat hit for me.

 

[Vapeaddikt]

So long as your using Ω's law and making sure you have a 18650 which can handle the amp draw from the coil you wrapped then your fine.

Regarding taste: I like mine right at .5-.6Ω's Taste is subjective so for me it gives a nice warm vape with excellent clouds, throat hit and taste.

Some people were posting early this morning stating that doing subΩ would make your 18650 into a bomb that would explode which is just flat out incorrect so long as with anything else you do your homework first. Hard shorts unprotected are the #1 cause of serious failures and even then you'd most likely just end up popping the coil negating the hard short. You'd also feel your mod heat up in your pocket most likely before something serious occured.

The chart up there is basically made for an absolute safe zone for someone just getting into the arena w/ zero prior experience or knowledge of electronics.

Use This and really pay attention to your amp draw which is really what would cause harm if you attempted to draw more than the battery is designed for. The AW IMR 18650's Rob recommends are rated at 10amps which is more than enough. Anyone who tries to regularly vape .3Ω's or below is really just gonna end up burning up their juice and loosing taste anyways along w/ the cotton no matter how saturated it is. Trust me I'm an idiot and just had to push the limits till it failed to know what I'm working with.

Many on here really like a .8Ω to 1Ω and many like 1.5Ω's and above. In the end as previously stated taste is subjective, just keep tinkering and find the sweet spot for you.

Lamen rule of thumb on batteries: If your really taxing a lithium ion battery you will feel it start to warm up or even get hot on its sides. If it even get's warm I'd say somethings wrong. When I collapsed my first spring on my Grand pushing a .3Ω coil my Sony 30amp never even felt warm to the touch.

When I smoked analogs I was a heavy hitter on the draws so for me subΩ gives me the light burn I likes when smoking. If you were a light smoker/mouth hitter then most likely 1-1.5Ω's will just be fine for you. It also has allot to do w/ the juice/flavor you vape on it regularly as well. Spicy cinnamon juices will kill you on subΩ most likely.

 

[supertrunker]

"Spicy cinnamon juices will kill you on subΩ most likely."

Yeah, but it means i get the TH - well more like karate chop and can use lower (for me anyway) nic. The thing is that my vaping changes throughout the day - i start off just puffing on my Reo and graduate to full cloud hound by mid morning.

But your point about the batteries and making good coils is the entire essence of making it work. Safely.

Because a guy at work with a Nova tank was having trouble with it last week, i rigged one of my old ones up - suffice to say it is not something i wish to use regularly, but it was fine at the time and served its purpose. In fact since i vape as much as i used to smoke i am not really sure i am making much progress, but i'm ok with it.

T

 

[sbmqcy]

Use This and really pay attention to your amp draw which is really what would cause harm if you attempted to draw more than the battery is designed for. The AW IMR 18650's Rob recommends are rated at 10amps which is more than enough.

So I've got a mini 2.1 with aw imr 18490s coming. Another thread on here highlighted the rating problem with those batteries, with some finding that they were rated 8C and others finding 15C ratings on the same batt. See here for the discussion. Being conservative, I'd probably stick with .7 ohms and up, figuring on giving myself a good chunk of room to the low amp rating. But I'm curious if that rating issue has ever been conclusively resolved.




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[pdib]

darkzero listed the specs. from AW . . .. According to that they are 15C (at 1100 mah, that's the 16.5A rating)

 

[pdib]

Even at 8C. . . . you'd be fine down to 0.4659Ω

 

[supertrunker]

i want to see this coil! Work needs me - i have to live till Friday!

T

 

[sbmqcy]

I've never built a coil lower than 1.8 before, and until I get a real meter and not my mvp v2, I'm not getting close. I don't even know if I like the low res vaping, so I'm going to aim for ~1.0-1.4 for my first rm2 build and we'll see where that goes. Where do you think the 8C rating comes from then? Just one typo that got repeated over and over? The discussion re: continuous versus burst rating did make some sense, but I'm a complete neophyte. I dunno if aw really publishes separate ratings, or if anyone does.

Food for another days thoughts. For now, I'm dreaming of my reo while I content myself with my aurora in the meantime.

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[sawtoothscream]

I have gone down to .3 and the juice still wasnt burnt. my current set ups are a single coil .7 micro and a dual .7 micro both taste awesome

 

[DuffTime]

That chart was made specifically with cartos and top coil clearos in mind, back when those were still the top dogs.

Those atomizers featured set and unmidifiable airflow, wick size/capacity and wire size. Put 20 watts through some tiny 36g wire and it's gonna be bad news in a 3 ohm carto.

But, bring in some 28 or 26 gauge(to widen heating surface area), put a 1/16" airhole in there(more cooling/air for vapor production) and a competent wick (like cotton/high grade silica) and the equation works fine. Everything is in balance. You're not evaporating liquid too fast to dry out the wick, you're maintaining airflow so the vape isn't harsh.

Things should be more like a flow chart. Is your vape too cool? either decrease air or increase power. Too hot? Do the opposite.

Drying out too fast? Increase wicking or decrease coil heat(via power or more airflow to keep coil cooler).

Well... now I have to go make said flowchart.

 

[cioranes]

Omg I had forgotten this chart. I used to look at it like it was the gospel, and be vaguely proud each time I ventured near the forbidden zone.
Then I went into rebuildables.