Questions about Juul

[jtbje]

Hi friends. I went to the store today to buy juul. I think a lot of you aren’t fans of juul for various reasons but I’m still struggling kicking these last few cigarettes once and for all, and I thought juul might help.

So I awkwardly go into the gas station and ask for it. I’m informed that they no longer sell it, at all, and the woman goes on and on to tell me how surprised she was when they pulled it because it was so popular here that they couldn’t even keep it in stock. This surprised ME because I live in a town of 1400 people in the middle of Texas. These people Juul?!?! What!!!

So I went to the only other gas station in my town and they also stopped selling it, but had some little “compatible with Juul” cartridges on the display counter.

What are these cartridges? And are any 50mg salts the same as Juul?

I need the Juul lowdown. I live under a rock and did not realize this is as popular as it apparently is.

 

[Shadav]

is there any reason why you specifically want juul? There are other pods more easily available and that are refillable

and as far as flavor goes, each brand is going to be slightly different

 

[jtbje]

is there any reason why you specifically want juul? There are other pods more easily available and that are refillable

and as far as flavor goes, each brand is going to be slightly different

I have a Smok Novo with 35mg salts, and I was thinking Juul with 50 might help kick these last few cigs without buying a whole bottle of 50mg salts.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Hill county is a fairly good size area without knowing where you are ~
Type in your nearest town ---> Where to Buy JUUL Near You - Store Locator | JUUL

 

[Jazzman]

I have a Smok Novo with 35mg salts, and I was thinking Juul with 50 might help kick these last few cigs without buying a whole bottle of 50mg salts.

A Juul Kit is not cheap, much more expensive than a bottle of 50mg NS ejuice. The pods are pricey also. But it has been a very effective device for many to quit smoking, so as long as the price doesn't put you off I would say give it a try. If it gets you off the last few smokes it would be well worth the price I think. It certainly couldn't hurt to try right? Well maybe the wallet, but that's inconsequential when compared to being smoke free really. And you can always migrate to other devices later when you are finally done with smokes forever.

Good luck and I hope it works for you.

 

[puffon]

Might be easier to order direct from Juul:
The Smoking Alternative, unlike any E-Cigarette or Vape | JUUL

 

[Uncle Willie]

I have two, they are great and they are re-fillable ..

Type "JUUL" in the ECF search box and prepare to spend some time ..

 

[bombastinator]

JUUL is a low powered MTL vape that makes up for its anemic performance with an exceptionally high nicotine load. They are formerly a part of PAX which was the company that did all the salts (protonated nicotine) research, and recently had a very large minority, and possibly working majority chunk of them bought by Altria which is the company that owns British Tobacco, RJR and PM. They basically ARE big tobacco at this point.

JUUL has a massive share of the gas station garbage e-cigarette market. Something like 70%. They also hold all the patents on protonated nic. JUUL claims to use nicotine benzoate for its protonated nicotine. According to their research it is the least “spiky” of the protonated nic compounds. There are as many protonated nic compounds as there are acids to react the nicotine with though. Traditionally such compounds have a lot in common with designer drugs. Similar but subtly different effects, most of which are not documented. Most juice makers selling bottled juice are using only a couple types of protonated nic though which can easily be bought wholesale. Nicotine benzoate is one of them iirc. Exactly what protonated nic compound you’re going to get from a given company though generally isn’t labeled and they are just called “salts”.
JUUL got into hot water because their product is both more potent and potentially more addictive than unprotonated nic, plus they’re relatively cheap and make a terrific stealth vape. As a result they were picked up by school kids in droves which started a media panic, and just about every antiecig group around has been capitalizing on that.

 

[OldBatty]

and potentially more addictive than unprotonated nic

Ah, that thought has crossed my mind a few times. If it is an exception to 'nicotine separated from tobacco is difficult to become addicted to'. Obvious why Juul would not want to admit it... FDA (and others) are not going to since they want every one to believe all nicotine is highly addictive. Except patches and gum which thanks to magic pixie dust (cash bribes) is A Ok.

 

[jtbje]

Thanks for the responses everyone! I’ve been searching ‘Juul’ here in the forums and doing my research. I did order a 50mg salt a few weeks ago and got a flavor I *thought* would be amazing, aaand it tasted like one of those plug in air fresheners you’d use in your house. So I gave it away. I ordered a 50mg salt today in a flavor that I know I love so hopefully that will do the trick.

Coincidentally, the guy that gives my kiddos guitar lessons walked in my house today while I was filling up my vape, and pulled a Juul out of his pocket. (I had no clue he vaped). I tried it and, not impressed with the flavor or the draw but it did give me a pretty good head rush.

 

[bombastinator]

JUUL is a low powered MTL vape that makes up for its anemic performance with an exceptionally high nicotine load. They are formerly a part of PAX which was the company that did all the salts (protonated nicotine) research, and recently had a very large minority, and possibly working majority chunk of them bought by Altria which is the company that owns British Tobacco, RJR and PM. They basically ARE big tobacco at this point.

JUUL has a massive share of the gas station garbage e-cigarette market. Something like 70%. They also hold all the patents on protonated nic. JUUL claims to use nicotine benzoate for its protonated nicotine. According to their research it is the least “spiky” of the protonated nic compounds. There are as many protonated nic compounds as there are acids to react the nicotine with though. Traditionally such compounds have a lot in common with designer drugs. Similar but subtly different effects, most of which are not documented. Most juice makers selling bottled juice are using only a couple types of protonated nic though which can easily be bought wholesale. Nicotine benzoate is one of them iirc. Exactly what protonated nic compound you’re going to get from a given company though generally isn’t labeled and they are just called “salts”.
JUUL got into hot water because their product is both more potent and potentially more addictive than unprotonated nic, plus they’re relatively cheap and make a terrific stealth vape. As a result they were picked up by school kids in droves which started a media panic, and just about every antiecig group around has been capitalizing on that.

Don’t you love it when someone simply claims you’re wrong but won’t say why?

 

[bombastinator]

Ah, that thought has crossed my mind a few times. If it is an exception to 'nicotine separated from tobacco is difficult to become addicted to'. Obvious why Juul would not want to admit it... FDA (and others) are not going to since they want every one to believe all nicotine is highly addictive. Except patches and gum which thanks to magic pixie dust (cash bribes) is A Ok.

There are levels of addiciveness. Sort of. The “spike”, which is how it appears on a blood level graph, is how quickly the drug enters and leaves your system. generally speaking, the sharper the spike on the graph is the “harder” the drug hits, and the faster the “high” dissipates. This is a concept I find difficult to give examples for without using words banned on this server. Generally speaking though many drugs have variants that do this. One of the more famous and generally considered the most socially destructive in western society currently is the metholated version of another earlier drug.

 

[bombastinator]

There are levels of addiciveness. Sort of. The “spike”, which is how it appears on a blood level graph, is how quickly the drug enters and leaves your system. generally speaking, the sharper the spike on the graph is the “harder” the drug hits, and the faster the “high” dissipates. This is a concept I find difficult to give examples for without using words banned on this server. Generally speaking though many drugs have variants that do this. One of the more famous and generally considered the most socially destructive in western society currently is the metholated version of another earlier drug.

...And he did it again. No explanation, no correction. I really might be wrong. But simply claiming it without saying why it is wrong has no value to anyone.

 

[override137]

There are levels of addiciveness. Sort of. The “spike”, which is how it appears on a blood level graph, is how quickly the drug enters and leaves your system. generally speaking, the sharper the spike on the graph is the “harder” the drug hits, and the faster the “high” dissipates. This is a concept I find difficult to give examples for without using words banned on this server. Generally speaking though many drugs have variants that do this. One of the more famous and generally considered the most socially destructive in western society currently is the metholated version of another earlier drug.

Halfway down the page is a graph that makes your point pretty well

What are Nicotine Salts (Nic Salts) – Vape Perfect | VapePerfect

 

[bombastinator]

Halfway down the page is a graph that makes your point pretty well

What are Nicotine Salts (Nic Salts) – Vape Perfect | VapePerfect

There’s a lot of seriously slanted stuff in there. The first one I run into is this

“Old bulky devices provide a lot of wattage, or power, to vaporize a lot of low nicotine juice. Because Nicotine salts are concentrated, you need to use a low power device.”

No. You need to use less concentrated juice. Truth rating 0%

“Because we specialize in nicotine salts, we only sell vapes that are safe for use with nicotine salts, and vapes that have been hand picked because of their quality. Be careful buying vapes and juice from other sources, but if you do, make sure they’re safe for use with nicotine salts.”

No. Be sure the concentration of nicotine is appropriate for the power of the device you are using. The assumption that protonated juices are all automatically always more concentrated is crap.
Also THE WRITER buys their stuff seemingly almost from other sources. Paragraph truth rating 0%

Then we get this:
“Nicotine salt is the natural form of nicotine found in tobacco leaf. In the early days of vaping, they used a different version called “freebase” nicotine. It was more easily extracted from tobacco through chemical processes. The result was a harsh nicotine that could only be vaped in moderation, resulting in the 3mg – 18mg juice you’ve probably seen before. Anything over 18mg was too harsh to be vaped, so most people found vaping underwhelming because it didn’t kick their cravings.”

No. Protonated nicotine is created FROM unprotonated nicotine. Also, the claim that anything over 18mg was too harsh to be vaped is crap. I’ve vaped 24mg. It IS too harsh to be vaped by some people though. I’d give the last paragraph a 25% truth rating. Maybe 35% as I’m unsure of exactly what is in tobacco itself. I understand it varies a LOT.

But wait, there’s more...
“With nicotine salts, you can comfortably vape higher levels of nicotine, from 24mg for light smokers all the way up to 50mg”
24mg for “light smokers”? No. Cut that in half perhaps. Up to 50mg is real though.
Truth rating 50%

Finally we get to the graph:

I find the “tested” vs “commercial”. Point to be interesting. PAX tested the light blue line as safe, then JUUL split off from it and marketed what appears to be a completely different product that was not tested. That line had to be modeled. It has an even sharper spike than cigarettes with a faster harder blood drop off. Here’s another graph. It looks a bit different.

JUUL uses nicotine benzoate. It’s patented. By JUUL. “Salts” though could be nicotine benzoate or any of hundreds of other acid/nicotine combinations. Nicotine Benzoate is very arguable the least offensive of the “salts”. All the others are even worse.

The company that made this advertisement DOES seem to sell JUUL, but also sells many many other devices. JUULs seem to hover between 20-50% higher in price than the other products. It is the ONLY one to which the top graph even applies though. For all the others who the heck knows? It’s all “salts”. They seem perfectly willing to claim it applies to everything though. Is there a number lower than zero percent?

This company is terrifying. They seem to be totally willing to lie and falsely fear monger at every turn. I am personally repulsed.

 

[Vapntime]

I think you are overthinking it bombastinator. Why is nicotine benzoate the least offensive of the salts? Nicotine ditartrate is actually considered the safest due to its no known allergy profile and many years of use in various nicotine products. Are you still considering the chemistry of nicotine salts or are you turning a blind eye...

 

[nanovapr]

Hi @jtbje I live 10 miles from the nearest Pepsi machine, and that is a town of 500. If you can do online purchasing, consider something better than Juul.

It's not that good. YMMV

 

[smacuser]

I heard Sean Hannity pimping JUUL today.

Are they offering a special right now?

 

[bombastinator]

I think you are overthinking it bombastinator. Why is nicotine benzoate the least offensive of the salts? Nicotine ditartrate is actually considered the safest due to its no known allergy profile and many years of use in various nicotine products. Are you still considering the chemistry of nicotine salts or are you turning a blind eye...

I’m looking at the graph. Admittedly the graph is very limited. I don’t believe nicotine tartrate is even on it. This is the problem with salts in general. There’s just very little coalated and publicly available information. If you’ve got a graph of nicotine tartrate blood levels over time please post it.

 

[Vapntime]

There is some basic info here about a variety of nicotine salts albeit from a manufacturer. (Scroll down)
Products & Applications | NicSelect

Some suppliers are happy to give out details:
Liquid barn CNT nicotine salts contain malic, benzoic and salicylic acids.
Wizard labs nicotine salts use only tartaric acid according to their SDS (nicotine ditartrate)
Delosi labs use a mixture, which *does not* contain benzoic or citric acids.

I agree they need to be upfront. Some of the acids that can be used are known allergens, preservatives and/or food additives. So it may become a legal issue.