Questions on the longevity of happy vaping!

[CanIVap3InHere]

Hello community,
Upon my recent obsession with the vape world i have come to the realization that the majority of mod/ juice manufacturers are small businesses. They are mostly teams ran by 20 or less workers (some even ran by 2 people). That being said, do you guys think one day we will come to see a monopoly form over the vaping world and run small companies out of business? Like cigarettes companies, or could we even see Walmart brand e-juice one day? Hopefully not. I know you may be thinking "No way, the vaping community is all grassroots, the community buys quality juice and that's what feeds business. But if a monopoly was to come in and sell 30ml of juice for 8$ that was sold in 7-11 and other quick marts, so it is readily available, could sites like Rawr or Alice in Vapeland compete? .D e k a n g. liquid sucks, that we know, but if there was money in it research and trial-and-error will help big companies form a vapeable liquid. As vaping grows we may see the vaping world turn from tons of selection to a juice thats just ehh. Food for thought, I welcome any responses. Vape on my friends!

 

[Vampyre]

No, when it started it was dominated by only a couple of companies making liquid and sites were just reselling those liquids. Since then it has exploded like crazy with small businesses selling homemade juice. I look at it more like restaurants than just selling a single defined product. Everyone has their own preferred recipes and none of them are exactly alike so there's always going to be room for the big businesses that sell the generic liquid cheap and the hand made small businesses they cost a bit more but have more complexity and quality.

 

[jSquared]

I think it is a definite possiblity, and one that we should be very wary of. I also believe it largely depends on the precise nature of any future regulation of the industry. If and when such regulation is enforced, the smaller vendors will need our support more than ever. The moral of the story is: be careful who you give your money to.

JJ

 

[Apptiger]

Warning ramble ahead:
Interesting question. IMHOP, the natural business cycle will still apply here unless the government/FDA does something to disrupt it.

On the cycle, I think we are still in the "new industry" areas of the cycle. Explosive growth will continue for a while, then there will be a period of consolidation and industry dominant/ market share giants will slowly appear and some businesses will fail / close and others are bought out. Who does the buying out can have some impact on the cycle and the speed. National distribution and marketing dollars will have impacts.

Better, cheaper and easier to get, premixed, pick it up at the corner store will rule the bulk of the market. However, there will always be boutique, custom and specialty juice manufacturers. Thinking for this category of goods it would be 20-30% of the market over the long run.

I picture it to be a cross between wine and hamburgers / pizza, just on a smaller scale. You have your Gallos, Berrengers, etc. but you also have a ton of smaller and successful wineries. You have your McDonald's, Pizza Huts, etc. but you also have smaller local or regional groups that make killer stuff. How many people go to Chicago and can't wait to get to Pizza Hut? They go to Giordano's, Lou Manalti's or Geno's. Does Chicago have Pizza Hut? Probably around ten, maybe more.
Today, the internet makes the local guy national or even international. Think the market can sustain both the giant and the smaller types. Unless the government legislates / regulates into oblivion or regulates to the point where the buy in to get started is not worth the investment. They can set it up to where only the giants can play. If they do, the cost of everything will go up and the number of choices/options will go down.

Ramble off

 

[Berylanna]

If you want to keep it the way it is now, join CASAA right this minute! Cycles may happen, but the new thing in how to get away with anti-trust-style buiness practices is to use laws to get rid of your competition, and that is what RJR and others are trying to do. We have *some* chance of stopping them, all is not lost yet, but not won either.

Numbers really REALLY count in this, but only if the numbers make themselves known to the media and politicians.

 

[Iffy]

That being said, do you guys think one day we will come to see a monopoly form over the vaping world and run small companies out of business?

Not without da monopoly mixin' up sum deliciously flav'd jooses.

My main concern for da future is gov't intervention/restrictions on nic levels! Actually, if da gov't does that, then that will only help a few small discriminate 'labs'. But unfortunately, yes, sum of da 'good guys' will disappear. Regardless, da black market and underground vaping economy will grandly flourish nonetheless!

If anyone needs a current comparable example, just check out your local 'herbal/medicinal' commerce...

 

[jkos]

IMO, the only thing that would stop small businesses would be heavy handed regulations designed to put them out of business.I will continue using the suppliers I have. hopefully all of us will keep shopping with our favorite vendors.

 

[wv2win]

First, many people swear by DeKang eliquid.

Second, two large tobacco companies are already in the market and it very well could be a big threat but not due to the OP's concern but due to them pushing for restrictions that benefit them.

Third, the much bigger issue is Big Pharm combined with the ANTZ's and combined with the FDA continuing to try and ban/severely restrict vaping. If we all don't join and support CASAA, the rest of the discussion is merely academic.

 

[Berylanna]

IMO, the only thing that would stop small businesses would be heavy handed regulations designed to put them out of business.I will continue using the suppliers I have. hopefully all of us will keep shopping with our favorite vendors.

You mean like the ones moving through the legislature in Oklahoma, North Carolina, South Carolina, and several other states?

Legal status of electronic cigarettes in the USA - Map - ECF InfoZone

Trust me, I'm shopping with my favorite vendors...as long as I can.

 

[bander68]

This may sound a bit crazy, but it's things like this that make me NOT want to share my knowledge about ecigs/vapor. The more people get into it, the less likely it is that the industry will stay mom and pop style. I have a great device, I can easily purchase all of my supplies, it's not taxed and regulated to death. I want it stay this way forever, or at least as long as possible. Simple, efficient, and cheap.

 

[synergis7]

IMO, the only thing that would stop small businesses would be heavy handed regulations designed to put them out of business.I will continue using the suppliers I have. hopefully all of us will keep shopping with our favorite vendors.

Agreed.

Once you can buy a Marlboro express kit at WalMart, all hope is lost

Till then, the market seems uniquely suited to sustain a bunch of boutique manufacturers- everybody's tastes are so different.

 

[HotPocketPosse]

Warning ramble ahead:
Interesting question. IMHOP, the natural business cycle will still apply here unless the government/FDA does something to disrupt it.

On the cycle, I think we are still in the "new industry" areas of the cycle. Explosive growth will continue for a while, then there will be a period of consolidation and industry dominant/ market share giants will slowly appear and some businesses will fail / close and others are bought out. Who does the buying out can have some impact on the cycle and the speed. National distribution and marketing dollars will have impacts.

Better, cheaper and easier to get, premixed, pick it up at the corner store will rule the bulk of the market. However, there will always be boutique, custom and specialty juice manufacturers. Thinking for this category of goods it would be 20-30% of the market over the long run.

I picture it to be a cross between wine and hamburgers / pizza, just on a smaller scale. You have your Gallos, Berrengers, etc. but you also have a ton of smaller and successful wineries. You have your McDonald's, Pizza Huts, etc. but you also have smaller local or regional groups that make killer stuff. How many people go to Chicago and can't wait to get to Pizza Hut? They go to Giordano's, Lou Manalti's or Geno's. Does Chicago have Pizza Hut? Probably around ten, maybe more.
Today, the internet makes the local guy national or even international. Think the market can sustain both the giant and the smaller types. Unless the government legislates / regulates into oblivion or regulates to the point where the buy in to get started is not worth the investment. They can set it up to where only the giants can play. If they do, the cost of everything will go up and the number of choices/options will go down.

Ramble off

100% agree....the joys of capitalism. If someone with a lot of money sees something making a lot of money well, a shrewd business man never denies that. Boutique, customer service oriented businesses will always be around. Some people need and want that. Like most things in life, you never realize the crap stuff you have been using until you try something quality.

 

[Soundsystem00]

I think it is just the opposite. At first, there were only cheap ecigs that looked kind of like the "Blu" ecigs. Then, they started having the disposable. You CAN buy ecig juices and cheap disposable ecigs at 711, Walgreens, and any store here. BUT.. If you want a real setup, and real flavors, you go to one of the small businesses. In my opinion, the more time goes on, the more choices there will be. Ecig technology is developing at a very rapid rate, kind of like computers and phones are.

Sure, Marlboro is probably freaking out right now. Like I said, only 3 months ago, my smoke break at work was all analogs. Now there ALL VAPING, maybe 8 analog smokers. Marlboro will probably try to make their own ecig line, but by then it will be far too late.

It's time for tobacco industries to suffer the consequences and what we like to call, Karma.

 

[Worzel]

I am afraid BT will come up with chemicals to put in the juice! A chemical for more vapor, another for longer lasting juice, added solvent to keep the atomizer from gunking up. I don't trust them. Besides, vaping isn't "one size fits all" some of us are sensitive to PG, or don't like it, some don't like VG. Some are sensitive to added colorant, some like menthol with every flavor. Besides, if we ended up only allowed cig alikes, someone out there will come up with a cool rendition of it in their garage and put it out there!

 

[wv2win]

I think it is just the opposite. At first, there were only cheap ecigs that looked kind of like the "Blu" ecigs. Then, they started having the disposable. You CAN buy ecig juices and cheap disposable ecigs at 711, Walgreens, and any store here. BUT.. If you want a real setup, and real flavors, you go to one of the small businesses. In my opinion, the more time goes on, the more choices there will be. Ecig technology is developing at a very rapid rate, kind of like computers and phones are.

Sure, Marlboro is probably freaking out right now. Like I said, only 3 months ago, my smoke break at work was all analogs. Now there ALL VAPING, maybe 8 analog smokers. Marlboro will probably try to make their own ecig line, but by then it will be far too late.

It's time for tobacco industries to suffer the consequences and what we like to call, Karma.

Sorry, but they (along with BP) have the power, money and influence to take away everything you like about vaping. Ignore that fact at your own risk. Have you joined and become a supporting member of CASAA, yet?

 

[Paul Maul]

If the U.S. big tobacco response to Swedish snus is any example they will offer product that is complete and utter crap, for years, and if you don't like it too damn bad. The market dynamics for e-liquids are quite different than snus but craveness and ignorance are the prime BT watchwords so I have extremely low expectations of what they will offer.

 

[chellemmm]

I think quality will always win out with connoisseurs. People who value quality will always seek out quality products. Sure, you can take a "fast food" approach and crank out crappy product, but there will always be people who appreciate artisan.
The rise of micro breweries is but one example. I would like to think that even if the majority of vapors can go the easy, "walmart" way, that there will always be the few that will continue to seek out the best in the class.