FDA Re. Potential Flavor Ban

[Maurice Pudlo]

Many see flavor bans in our future, that being said and for the sake of this particular topic I'd like to ask how exactly does one ban "tobacco flavor that isn't actually tobacco"?

I don't vape the tobacco flavors anymore in an effort to aid my remaining tobacco free so admittedly I'm a bit at a loss as to what goes into tobacco type flavoring.

Obviously this isn't about honey tobacco or any of the hundred or so other mixed flavors that are not just tobacco, I mean just raw tobacco flavor.

Aside from NET or WTA extracts, which I assume produce nice tobacco flavor, is the flavor "tobacco" just that or is it itself a combination of flavors used to mimic what we know as tobacco?

To what extent is the current ban on tobacco flavors effecting how a tobacco is cured in relation to its final taste? And further more how would that be replicated without a mix of flavors in the e liquid realm without use of multiple flavors?

If e liquid becomes a tobacco product, I'm assuming that it would fall instantly under the whole no flavor regulations, I don't know this to be fact, but it seems like a logical conclusion. However must the FDA enforce equally all tobacco products?

Maurice

 

[KeysBum]

I DIY. I'm not worried about getting flavorings. There is no way the govt. can herd that many cats. My worry is the supply of liquid nic.
If things start getting weird in a year or so I may just buy several gallons of concentrate.

 

[flowerpots]

Many see flavor bans in our future, that being said and for the sake of this particular topic I'd like to ask how exactly does one ban "tobacco flavor that isn't actually tobacco"?

They are called TINO (tobacco in name only). My guess is they will require that products state tobacco-like or tobacco flavor, as differentiated from a true tobacco-derived product.

Aside from NET or WTA extracts, which I assume produce nice tobacco flavor, is the flavor "tobacco" just that or is it itself a combination of flavors used to mimic what we know as tobacco?

I have no clue what flavorings go into a concentrate to mimic the taste of tobacco. Someone with more knowledge will have to answer this one. I do know there are many different types of tobacco and, therefore, many different types of tobacco taste.

 

[DeeLeeKay]

I do not see how they can ban any flavor unless they ban unflavored nic juice.

 

[Stosh]

Tobacco flavorings are really two classifications, some such as NET, WTA, and some flavorings do have real tobacco ingredients. Othere are as you say, a combination of vanilla, caramel, nut, and who knows what else to approximate a tobacco flavor.

Most flavorings wouldn't be banned as the flavorings had uses long before vaping ever existed. As was said, the unflavored nicotine concentrate would be the choke point. The EU recently proposed a 20 mg/mL limitation....New EU Restrictions on E-Cigs and Possible Ban. There's a large pool of vapers that started out using e-liquid well over 20 mg for a long time before quitting smoking, or reducing the nicotine content.

 

[mooreted]

I keep wondering how a ban would work as well. The local vape shop buys flavoring and nicotine separately and mixes them to order. The flavoring is just food flavoring that can't be banned and as far as I know they aren't banning nicotine. It would certainly harm Internet sales of pre-mixed liquid though.

 

[Stosh]

I keep wondering how a ban would work as well. The local vape shop buys flavoring and nicotine separately and mixes them to order. The flavoring is just food flavoring that can't be banned and as far as I know they aren't banning nicotine. It would certainly harm Internet sales of pre-mixed liquid though.

They wouldn't need to ban nicotine, just regulate to only be available to the general public in tamper-proof pre-filled catros. The FDA has time to think long and hard since being spanked in court in the Scotta ruling.

 

[CallmeB]

When the US says "regulate" what they really mean is religate. Religate vaping out of the hands of the average person by placing so many restrictions on it and regulations that it would cost you twice as much to make it yourself as it would to just buy from Walmart. What's legal or not legal means very little to me in the home of abitrary laws (US). It is amazing the possibilities vaping has at the moment. It's because, unlike just about anything else in this country, e cigs and e juice are for the most part unregulated. Freedom in the US is like witnessing a fairy riding a unicorn being abducted by a UFO. It's so unheard of.

 

[69CamaroSS]

Everything from cigars to pipe tobacco to cigs to smokeless "chew and snuff" to liquors to beers and ciders...heck even cleaning supplies and air fresheners have long been available in scents and flavors that are appealing to children!! Appealing...isn't that the point of variety in marketing!?!? As already said, this is more about money and the control of it than protecting or preventing anything!!! Whatever can't be regulated (ie: taxed) is and always has been illegal!!!....and always will be!!
It's a free county...as long as you can afford and pay for it!

 

[Traver]

At this time the FDA can regulate any product that contains nicotine derived from tobacco plants. They did ban flavored cigarettes so they might also ban flavored juice with nicotine. Or they may just say any liquid with nicotine is a regulated product under FDA jurisdiction. In that case if you were a vender all you would have to do is spend a few million to get their approval to sell it.

Concentrated flavorings are already regulated as food products. I am not sure what the situation is with flavoring extracts.

This is a good time to start time to start DIY and stocking up on nicotine..

 

[flowerpots]

This is a good time to start time to start DIY and stocking up on nicotine..

And batteries...

 

[DeeLeeKay]

Starting out with better batteries and atomizers may mean a reduction in the amount of nicotine needed.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Ok. What you guys fail to take into consideration is banning other things will cause the demand for eliquid flavors to fall, and if the demand falls what's the point in staying in business when you can gear your business in another way.

For example, lets say Mount Baker Vapor uses Flavor West to obtain their flavors. I'm sure many do, while others use Capella or so. Ok... Lets say Mount Baker and several others go out of business and they happen to be 95% of Flavor West's customer base while the other 5% are DIY customers. I doubt that company can or will stay afloat just to vend a small margin of customers.

There's a lot more but the FDA absolutely has jurisdiction to oversee anything associated with a product they regulate. They can regulate any part out of existence by simply making the application process too expensive. Their deeming regulations as written gives them full jurisdiction over all things associated with ecigs. The question is will congress let it pass in its present state. I guess we will see.

But in all honesty if most eliquid companies are pushed to go out of business, the flavor companies, or their ecig portion will close as well. Their majority of their customer base will fall substantially making it not profitable for them.

It's best we fight now!

 

[DeeLeeKay]

From all that I have been reading a well place class action lawsuit could virtually keep the FDA from regulating e cigs.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

From all that I have been reading a well place class action lawsuit could virtually keep the FDA from regulating e cigs.

Ok. A class action suit for what? Since congress gave the FDA the right and authority under the law to regulate all tobacco products I don't see how anyone could bring on a class action suit without it being thrown out. Once it passes congress it will be law. Sure, we may be able to fight for adjustments beforehand but suing for what? Small businesses may be able to try since the majority will close, but I doubt they'd win. It's like pulling teeth.

 

[stevegmu]

There won't be flavor bans, just restrictions on free samples and advertising...

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

There won't be flavor bans, just restrictions on free samples and advertising...

If these deeming regulations get passed as they are, there won't be bans, there just won't be any to afford those outrageous application fees. You're right, no bans. Just nobody able to get approved.

They very well can regulate flavors if they are marketed for ecigs.

 

[Stosh]

If these deeming regulations get passed as they are, there won't be bans, there just won't be any to afford those outrageous application fees. You're right, no bans. Just nobody able to get approved.

They very well can regulate flavors if they are marketed for ecigs.

And realize the other herbal product wasn't made illegal at first, it just required a federal tax stamp, that couldn't be had at any price. If the government want to, they can find a way.

 

[DeeLeeKay]

Ok. A class action suit for what? Since congress gave the FDA the right and authority under the law to regulate all tobacco products I don't see how anyone could bring on a class action suit without it being thrown out. Once it passes congress it will be law. Sure, we may be able to fight for adjustments beforehand but suing for what? Small businesses may be able to try since the majority will close, but I doubt they'd win. It's like pulling teeth.

Denying people their basic human rights to easy access to harm reduction products.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

And realize the other herbal product wasn't made illegal at first, it just required a federal tax stamp, that couldn't be had at any price. If the government want to, they can find a way.

Absolutely. And Zellar, FDA nut, already said out of his own mouth that once the FDA gets jurisdiction over ecigs he's doing away with flavors.