READYxWICK for non cotton people

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Filthy-Beast

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I don't dispute the science, I love physics. However I think part of equation is missing and we have multiple use cases being discuss without the impact of those being considered.

I'm a bottom feeder(say that in public). So my wick does not sit in a juice reservoir and gain the benefit of the wicking action like a wick that has a reservoir. When I feed juice my coil and wicks get's fully saturated with juice for a few seconds but then all excess drains away, with a tight micro coil juice is only on the ends of the wick for a few seconds and I have to rely on the capillary action to "wick" the juice through out the coil. My theory is the open spacing of coils for those few seconds of juice supply allows the wick to asborb more total juice than the tight micro coil does and this translates into more flavor for me.

Here's my typical coil and I tried to show how it sits up in the air

IMAG2014-L.jpg
 

cigatron

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Not gonna mince words with you gentlemen, LOL. The word deflection implies pooching. It's whatever part of the wick comes in contact with the coil (not at some point removed, we can only speculate at that calculation and its method). The deflection is what it is. It's based on the turns of wire and diameter. No magic here to spacing. The efficiency IS that contact surface. More lead length and wire length not in contact with coils is ineffeciency. Not my opinion but fact in electronics. Energy expended in the work is what we're calculating. Wire heating air is not producing work. In this case vaporization.

Wire length spent separating coils is not as efficient as the equivalent and additional wire length that could be deployed in a contact coil. So, the potential contact surface for a given length of element is increased. The lead length of a clearo is a constant. Increase the overall wind length by putting more turns into an element of a given lead length and you increase its work potential.

That ends the missive on efficiency. We are talking about two different things. You are saying that coils wound with larger gauge wire for a given res are more efficient because a higher percentage of the overall wire length resides in the winds than the legs. Which is true. I was merely pointing out the fact that tncc's are not less effecient than tmc's in that regard. If the resistance value and wire gauge are identical between a tmc and a tncc the same percentage of wire is in the coil vs leads. It doesn't matter how many winds it has.,

Now, fellas who said vapor doesn't escape between the turns of an m.c. or t.m.c. (and it's under higher pressure so higher velocity). Can I see the proofs that it's a non-porous cylinder. My visual examinations would differ with the supposition. If I said or indicated "all' of the vapor exited from the ends of a tmc I digress. Pretty sure I was talking more about the tmc's depositing stony pigments and it's relationship to wick longivity.

I'm not gonna say you guys aren't gettin' the results you say. But the math don't suggest it. And I am truly very interested to understand the mechanics. You see if we understand what is happening it can be reproduced. I can't reproduce the effect you guys report. So you'll have to pardon my skepticism.Perhaps your tests with tncc's in protanks with some dirty juice will offer some evidence. I'm pretty good with math but don't see much of it shared on ecf. Observation through controlled testing seems to be something folks get along with just fine though.

:D

I will grant you the tight spacings (micro fissures and irregularities in a very tight t.m.c.) can close up very fast. Hours, as the coil surface accumulates caramelized deposits. That would seem to confirm your hypotheses if it could be demonstrated under magnification. However, vaporization is a violent process and even with t.m.c.'s turns have a tendency to have their adhesion disrupted and separation to ensue. If it is that violent in a tmc that would explain the gunshot like noises. It is rare that it happens in a tncc. Only after many ml's of juice and heat. I suspect it happens wherever the wick has lost contact with the coil. So guys, I don't see the scientific explanation. That's my problem with your theory cig. The basis for the inefficiency cited is flawed by omission. I really never stated that tncc's were more efficient. In fact I stated they are less efficient and require more power to operate. Where they shine is flavor and wick longivity.

What I do see is that Nextel's hollow core delivers juice alongside the internal weave's inter-fiber channels. Heat pushes juice progressively along to channels more adjacent to the surface. Near the wick's surface channel flow is to the surface of the wick (and coils) and towards each end of the wick. This effect of vaporization emitting from the fiber channels is more readily apparent in a vertical coil situation. Nextel itself can be incredibly conductive of heat being capable of internalizing heat of >2200 deg. F. (that's not happening here BTW, more likely in the 200-300 deg. F range and probably towards the low side (but haven't done the IR studies of a Nextel surface).

Just sayin' fellas. I love those NET's about as much as any tobacco lover could. If it's possible to do, let's see how to get there. So far the maintenance plan I suggested some time ago cig, preventing agglomeration of pigments at the coil surface by frequent washing (using Nextel), is working for me with very dense juices to as much as quadruple the time I experience with alternatives. And why I'm a big fan.I have a love/hate relationship with nextel (specifically rxw). More on this after I have completed my. 30awg KA1 .065 dia. 8/7 1.9ohm tncc RXW tests.

Nevertheless, being the ever constant skeptic even of my own conclusions I'm undertaking another examination of spaced and multi-wire windings (for tobacco).

Best of luck to us fellas!

Cig thank you so much for that contribution of the jig. I remain as you are very interested in spacing and its effects. This is a handy little tool to working with that. Very grateful.

Mac, I'm sure as I can be that you will make new discoveries with tool. I want to hear the good, bad and ugly about the resulting coils. As always I appreciate your forthrightness.

:)cig
 

rudy4653

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I don't dispute the science, I love physics. However I think part of equation is missing and we have multiple use cases being discuss without the impact of those being considered.

I'm a bottom feeder(say that in public). So my wick does not sit in a juice reservoir and gain the benefit of the wicking action like a wick that has a reservoir. When I feed juice my coil and wicks get's fully saturated with juice for a few seconds but then all excess drains away, with a tight micro coil juice is only on the ends of the wick for a few seconds and I have to rely on the capillary action to "wick" the juice through out the coil. My theory is the open spacing of coils for those few seconds of juice supply allows the wick to asborb more total juice than the tight micro coil does and this translates into more flavor for me.

Here's my typical coil and I tried to show how it sits up in the air

IMAG2014-L.jpg

Exactly what I was thinking and trying to say in my longwinded thread!! :)
 

MacTechVpr

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Mac, I'm sure as I can be that you will make new discoveries with tool. I want to hear the good, bad and ugly about the resulting coils. As always I appreciate your forthrightness.

:)cig

We shall see, LOL. I'm not conceding any so-called spaced coil cotton pooch advantage. Cotton sags (unless you compress it so hard it don't hunt). The compression may boost flow in something linear like KGD but you clog in no time. Eko has enough rigidity along with permeability to maintain it's pooch consistency. I don't see that with cotton.


But seriously, I wanna target 1.8Ω 29 AWG, 1.0Ω 26 AWG, single wind. What's your spec?

Pictures speak volumes...


359705d1406426217-protank-microcoil-discussion-img_0959a.jpg



Two-weeks, four-washes in…dash the stony pigments. Vapin it, not rewickin' it.

(Two-thirds blend Boba's+Gorilla Juice, 100% PG.)

Goodnight all. Good luck.

:)
 

cigatron

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We shall see, LOL. I'm not conceding any so-called spaced coil cotton pooch advantage. Cotton sags (unless you compress it so hard it don't hunt). The compression may boost flow in something linear like KGD but you clog in no time. Eko has enough rigidity along with permeability to maintain it's pooch consistency. I don't see that with cotton.


But seriously, I wanna target 1.8Ω 29 AWG, 1.0Ω 26 AWG, single wind. What's your spec?

Pictures speak volumes.


Two-weeks, four-washes in…dash the stony pigments. Vapin it, not rewickin' it.

(Two-thirds blend Boba's+Gorilla Juice, 100% PG.)

Goodnight all. Good luck.

:)

Hey Mac, yeah cotton sags over time especially when subjected to high heat. I'm not really compressing the kgd any more than with a tmc though. It just naturally expands to pooch up between the winds a little in tncc's. Works great in Protanks. I really can't believe I got 1543 (4 sec) draws on the kgd wicked Tncc Mpt2 before the flavor went south. That's over 15ml! Lol. I guess the nicquid Soho vapes pretty clean as I never rinsed the tank or did a wick blowout.
Anyway, my standard build for tncc's in PTs is limited to eight winds. Pretty much all you have room for in the little fella. Past few weeks has been 30awg 7/6 4-40 1.75 ohm. 29awg 8/7 4-40 would probably land you with a similar value. 26awg in a PT? Haven't tried it as I run the PTs for portability and my ego twists can't hang (too much wire mass to heat).

Lik'n on your vert coil 3mm nextel rda build. Nice gentle bend of the nextel to the floor. Is it trimmed at an angle where it contacts the floor? And are you still using SNG or is that RXW? Would like to try that build in a Tobh Atty.

:)cig
 
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MacTechVpr

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Morn'n Mac, yeah cotton sags over time especially when subjected to high heat. I'm not really compressing the kgd any more than with a tmc though. It just naturally expands to pooch up between the winds a little in tncc's. Works great in Protanks. I really can't believe I got 1543 (4 sec) draws on the kgd wicked Tncc Mpt2 before the flavor went south. That's over 15ml! Lol. I guess the nicquid Soho vapes pretty clean as I never rinsed the tank or did a wick blowout.
Anyway, my standard build for tncc's in PTs is limited to eight winds. Pretty much all you have room for in the little fella. Past few weeks has been 30awg 7/6 4-40 1.75 ohm. 29awg 8/7 4-40 would probably land you with a similar value. 26awg in a PT? Haven't tried it as I run the PTs for portability and my ego twists can't hang (too much wire mass to heat).

Lik'n on your vert coil 3mm nextel rda build. Nice gentle bend of the nextel to the floor. Is it trimmed at an angle where it contacts the floor? And are you still using SNG or is that RXW? Would like to try that build in a Tobh Atty.

:)cig


Ran that vert as a single 26, 6/5, 7/64 for quite a while…with a piece of XC I'd used in four other devices! Finally drilled out the original port doubling up to 7/64 and D/C 26, 6/5, 3/32 (which is a perfect deflection wind for 116) with fresh XC. I don't rightly know what's in it as it's a personal build, not a working demo, and my personal use wick supplies have become intermingled I'm afraid. I'd be guessing to say it's likely RxW as I've had more of it.


359704d1406426179-protank-microcoil-discussion-img_0955a.jpg



Nextel once it breaks in soaks quite readily although not with the thirst of cotton or rayon but more approaching Eko. I'd rather have wick or media resting on the deck at any point than juice sloshing around. Does no good if its not being migrated. You gotta get in line to buy a ticket. And yes, I bias cut the wick's well ends. I fluff the flat cut top ends to capture as much drip as possible. The coil orientation in this build was both to take advantage of that gentle slope and reduce lead length over the more commonplace examples for this dripper on the tubes. Those produced too high a resistance to take advantage of the formidable brass Steam Monkey mech, although adequate for the ZNA.

I'm not going to be running any extensive tests on spaced winds cig. Just don't have the time. I accepted your offer as I've not run a tensioned screw wind (proper symmetry) on RxW. Curious to see the difference between that and a carefully spaced tension coil. Tightly spaced tension coils easily and often inadvertently become tensioned adhesion coils if you're not careful. That's how I built my first one. Since I've already proved since long ago that an m.c. is not a pipe bomb but actually exhibit quite a substantial inter-turn vapor release. I don't want any pooching in this intercoil spaces but high velocity high pressure vapor burst releases of the nearly continuous variety as in the picture. That's what makes this vaper happy.

Take care and good luck.

:)
 
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MacTechVpr

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I don't dispute the science, I love physics. However I think part of equation is missing and we have multiple use cases being discuss without the impact of those being considered.

I'm a bottom feeder(say that in public). So my wick does not sit in a juice reservoir and gain the benefit of the wicking action like a wick that has a reservoir. When I feed juice my coil and wicks get's fully saturated with juice for a few seconds but then all excess drains away, with a tight micro coil juice is only on the ends of the wick for a few seconds and I have to rely on the capillary action to "wick" the juice through out the coil. My theory is the open spacing of coils for those few seconds of juice supply allows the wick to asborb more total juice than the tight micro coil does and this translates into more flavor for me.

Here's my typical coil and I tried to show how it sits up in the air

IMAG2014-L.jpg


You're right FB bottom feeders are a whole 'nother territory. Still my approach would be a contact coil of some kind (like twisted) to try and harness as much efficiency as possible.

I like the way REOS users think…because it is normative. How can we get that all around, consistent, great vape. At the end of the day (and quite often at the beginning of the day!) we all gotta have something we can count on.

One of these days I'll have to make time to get to the REO fb.

Good luck.

:)
 

cigatron

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Still my approach would be a contact coil of some kind (like twisted) to try and harness as much efficiency as possible.

Mac,all, granted contact coils are more thermally efficient .Heat sharing etc. Hearing good things regarding efficiency with twisted. Help me understand why.

:)cig
 
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olefolks

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Well, I'm a wuss when it comes to coils. I like 1.5/1.8. I tried getting there with a spaced coil but it was too long for my atty. So, went back to the micro. I have to say as of right now I'm going with ReadyX. Cooler heat and very good flavor. I'm not throwing my KGD away tho!!!
 

MacTechVpr

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Mac,all, granted contact coils are more thermally efficient .Heat sharing etc. Hearing good things regarding efficiency with twisted. Help me understand why.

:)cig

I like twisted even as they're hard to perfect, or impossible, as pure contact coils. If you're seeking an ack that there are more micro fissures (spaces) in the wind I'd say sure, but not necessarily. There can be glaringly big ones, too often, and that's just a failed coil. Then they run hot negating the very efficiency that makes them productive. I use 'em. I'm not proud. LOL Ain't no beauty contest. We all gotta vape. But really here I'm complaining about the very concerns I have about spaced winds…they run hotter. And the heat I refer to is not coil to wick transfer but surface diffusion. So I'm not a big fan.

Hey look cig, the method that gets you there most consistently is what you gotta go with. If I have time, I do twisted. Mostly I do tension 'cause I can spit 'em out in seconds. Several. Use the best example. Have a backup in case I snap one. That's utility. That kind of expediency.

I usually keep some 32-31 twisted spun up all the time so I can do just that, do up two or three coils. And they're particularly useful for a light airy dripper like the Helios to improve the density.

Right now I'm actually doing a 28/8/2.2 for a Helios/ZNA. First time ever! Just so I can see the diff for this gauge from the cooler denser result I typically see from outboard cross-post center builds in twisted 31. My contrarian guess at this point given some recent realizations is that it will actually be cooler. It is in part what's been moving me close and back to t.m.c.'s across the board from my experiments with spaced winds and multi-wire…apart from my advocacy for straight t.m.c.'s on the Protank thread.

For the moment I'll keep winding twisted on the premise that it can cool the vape through efficiency. Even as I see more and more that not enough adhesion uniformity is being maintained (easier with heavier gauges). I just happen to like the small gauge corrugations.

Take care cig. Good luck.

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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Well, I'm a wuss when it comes to coils. I like 1.5/1.8. I tried getting there with a spaced coil but it was too long for my atty. So, went back to the micro. I have to say as of right now I'm going with ReadyX. Cooler heat and very good flavor. I'm not throwing my KGD away tho!!!

I'm with ya olefolks. I'm advocate of tension winding micro's 'cause I get to put some backbone into the wind without breakin' a sweat. And ceramic wick does flow like the dickens with a good tight coil. Was always ambivalent about the taste of cotton until KGD. But the two perform very close. Just wish the cotton would last longer.

Take care. Good luck.

:)


313893d1394460029-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do-img_0535a.jpg
 

pennysmalls

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I received my first order of readyxwick the other day and as I was getting out all of my gear to build a new coil I had a bright idea, or at least I thought it was. :p Soak the readyxwick in some pg while I play with building a coil! I thought I had read something in this thread about the readyxwick taking a while to fully saturate so I figured it would help prime the wick and it shouldn't hurt anything. So I fiddled and faddled and after about 30 minutes finally produced a coil with ohms above 2.0, my target ohm. But then I couldn't get the readyxwick into my coil. I had used the next to smallest gizmo mandrel and the wick was to wide. I got frustrated and put everything away and wicked with some cotton.

Tonight I found FB's (thanks FB!) suggestion to cut the edge of the wick at an angle and "screw" the wick into the coil. Problem solved. The piece of wick had been soaking in the pg for 2 days and was primed perfectly, ready for vaping instantly. I just wanted to share. I'm thinking about taking another small piece of rxw and putting it in pg for a long while to see if the ends got soft and fray or if they stay firm enough to be threaded through a coil. If the ends stay firm I think I'll store my rxw in pg for priming purposes. It may not be necessary, I don't know how long this rxw takes to get to optimal prime, but it sure is nice having a wick that's instantly ready.
 

pennysmalls

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I think I've been so conditioned by how long it took to break in my ekowool in my eBaron's that I just assumed rxw would be the same way. It seemed to take at least 24 hours of heavy vaping to get the taste of ekowool out. I haven't used a piece of dry rxw yet so I don't know if it has a taste for me. I think soaking it may have removed any taste it may have. The soaking thing never would have worked with my ekowool, it would have unraveled after being soaked for two days and been a mess to wrap. Which is to bad because I think soaking the ekowool would have really helped with the taste issue. The rxw held up well though, and was still firm enough to slide right into the coil. I think though the next piece of the rxw I use will be a dry piece so I can see if it has a taste for me.
 

muzichead

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Interesting!! I have never had an odd taste using RxW. I just screw it into the coil and give it a couple squonks and its ready to vape. It seems to soak up the juice very fast for me. Maybe its because I only use little 1/2" pieces in my coils. Never had to soak it, let it sit, or anything like that. I think that is part of the reason this stuff is the best, IMO....
 
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