RESPONSE to RolyGate: Exploding mods - the REAL current situation

[DJGoogone]

Ok, here it goes..

I came a year ago, I read some crap, I bought a 901, then an 801, then a 510 and so on and so on.. I now own 2 'High End' mods made by a well known company. I read a bunch more...

I am of age, I know the risk, and if the ....er blows up in my face, so be it..

I quit smoking, now I vape. the lesser of two evils..

I quit commin here cuz of the over hyped mombo-jumbo BS crap...

I quit going to all the boards cuz of the finger pointing, name calling crap...

Oh yes, and as a final point of interest, DONT DRIVE YOUR CAR, the gas could explode or you may get hit by a train.. and whatever you do, DO NOT FLY, oh my god... It would be best if you just don't get outta bed.. but hey, the plane could fall out of the sky and hit your house.. or that car.. Oh my! Why do people still use these things?!?!

Peace..

 

[Lightgeoduck]

I don't understand the concern as well, as far as ECF's part. I 100% agree we should know about the hazards of batteries and the "safety" issues of HV mods....BUT I do believe that is what the forum members are doing.... I have read countless posts with warnings and disclaimers(even though I knew about battery issues pre-ecig)


We can not Turn this open Forum UP_SIDE_DOWN... I understand regulating it in a manner to be civil... BUT this seems to be a bit too far..... ECF shouldnt feel like they are held responsible AT ALL unless ECF states that there are no safety concerns.....


I remember one video post where this guy made this POS mod that looked dangerous as Heck and I also remember the replys stating the concerns..


The fact is if you try to cover stupidity up... it doesn't mean stupidity isn't there.


The GREAT thing about an open forum like this.. we get to see peoples ideas... and respond to them... and the lurkers that are unsure, but smart enough to educate themselves will read said posts... and learn from it...


and as far as those incidents I have also seen posts questioning them and responses stating the reasons and the concerns.......

I do not believe ECF needs to put there thumbs on top of our heads... I hope ECF values their members to trim the fat for them...





I am not a duck

 

[GregH]

Oh yes, and as a final point of interest, DONT DRIVE YOUR CAR, the gas could explode or you may get hit by a train.. and whatever you do, DO NOT FLY, oh my god... It would be best if you just don't get outta bed.. but hey, the plane could fall out of the sky and hit your house.. or that car.. Oh my! Why do people still use these things?!?!

Peace..

And don't forget: if you do stay in bed, where you're presumably safe from all of this stuff that we need protection from, for goodness' sake, don't use your iPod. They've been known to explode too!

 

[Wafflestomper]

At first I was a little taken back by Steve's response, but I can certainly see his point of view.

I don't agree that the mod suppliers should be on a "regulating committee" as that would be a serious conflict of interest and could lead to ugly politics...much like we see in everyday government.

I do believe that the mod suppliers and/or independent members/users/etc. should do some testing and make that information available to suppliers and cosnumers.

I would be remiss to think that Steve or any other supplier would not welcome such information, or share such information with other suppliers.

I think rather than take the all too common "regulate-me" attitude designed to "save people from themselves", people should be left to make their own decisions. In fact, ECF is a discussion forum and a valuable resource for education.

For them to take the paranoid stance that they are somehow responsible for what is sold or promoted here is a very very dangerous thing for them to do.... by doing this, they take the risk of having the mod suppliers say "So long I'm outta here". This would fragment information, leading to people making uninformed decisions.

I know Steve and other mod suppliers undertake testing of their own, and safety is a concern for them.. ECF makes it sound like they are in it for a buck and want nothing to do with regulation for that reason.

Let's not forget what started these mod suppliers on this road, saving lives.

I hope in the hurricane of business and money that these guys remember to take time and scrutinize the safety of their devices and share the information with their competitors.

And don't forget, those who would ban e-cigs would have a field day with a headline that read, "Mother and Child Burned by exploding e-cigarette". They won't care *whos* ecigarette it was, they will just go after the entire industry...and even more lives will be lost.

 

[autumnbreeze]

I agree with everything you wrote, Cash, word for word. Many vapers I've spoken to don't have much good to say about how this site is moderated, but like it for the plethora of information found on here. It is a forum and should be used for that purpose only. Not as a dictatorship for everything ecig.

To be honest, I like being able to come here and see if someone is selling something or wanting to trade, but other than that, there are too many people who act like there's some hierarchy on the board. Some at the top look down on those on the bottom. As I'm writing this, I fear I may get banned because of my honest and shared thoughts among many other vapers I've spoken to.

Thank you ECF for providing a place to learn about all that is ecig. Please keep it that way.

 

[MHR7331]

Very well said Steve.

 

[gatsby]

Information is the most important safety feature available. It is a short step from 'unsafe' to not safe for discussion. That is a dangerous road to go down and judging from all the poorly thought out statements in Roly's initial post I don't trust the powers that be at ECF to decide what is dangerous discussion.

 

[shivadance]

I'm glad to hear a respected vendor take a stance against this. It is, in fact, through ECF that I learned about proper use of batteries and was convinced by other members that protected batts is the only way to go.

I think the warnings in the MOD and DIY sections are solid. Anything more is overkill.

Thanks for the much needed perspective on this issue Steve.

 

[Katattack]

I think the users do a good job letting others know when a potential safety issue comes up and the vendors do a good job of addressing those issues. Those vendors that don't would quickly gain a reputation and lose business. A self regulating system...

 

[georgiasl]

If ECF does choose to pursue this path I do not see how they are any different from the FDA. I am an adult I do not need anyone to protect me from myself!

 

[Drozd]

let's point out too that the most recent incident that touched off this crapstorm...

Some guy wanted to run 6V on his chuck...
So he googles cr123a batteries, and finds some site selling cr123a batteries for $2 for a set of 2...no where on the site does it say they're rechargeable much less even protected..
Orders them and the batttery place sends him a substitute to fill the order..again no where indicated that they are protected or rechargeable..
And then puts them on a charger...and then tries to vape with them and when they don't fire he swaps em out with the same kind on the charger and continues to try to use them...

We don't need ECF to regulate or set safety specs for mods...if anything we need users like this regulated
Are mod builders really expected to hold the users hand and look over their sholder to see what they're doing?

This most recent case was 100% user error...and he should have kept his stupid mistake to himself....now mod builders are under attack and will end up paying for it and it just isn't right

 

[taukimada]

ive been trying to stay out of this discussion on this forum...

but alas.. i cannot do so without guilt that something NEEDED to be said..

if this plan goes through without proper and open argument.. then this forum really has ceased to be even remotely anything that i remember it to be.. and i will be happy that i walked away before it got that bad...

with roly's post.. this went from a semi ridiculous discussion where some brilliant people were banging thier heads against the walls of stupidity.. to a serious breach of the trust that the members have put into the people who run this place...

the ONLY liability that ecf has for a mod exploding is to simply make the statement that they do not condone the use of unprotected batteries in unsafe configurations.. and drop it there... but if they actually INVOLVE themselves in actually condoning certain mmods vs others.. and one of the condoned mods goes supernova for whatever reason... THEN they are liable

as it stands currently.. the only liability stands between the user and the vender... as it SHOULD be

 

[shivadance]

I'd rather ECF just disallow mod advertising and discussion rather than jump through a bunch of hoops to discuss or find information on mods and batts. Mods are all I use anymore. If mods are that much of a potential liability then just axe all mod info.

Honestly, I had more issues with automatic factory batts than mod batts and I've been using mods longer.

 

[taukimada]

(SNIP)
This most recent case was 100% user error...and he should have kept his stupid mistake to himself....now mod builders are under attack and will end up paying for it and it just isn't right

not true... it was extremely valuable to the community at large that he put out to them the mistake he made.. and let's get down to the grit of it... he made a MISTAKE and nearly paid dearlyy for it.. you cannot put this on the mistake of one member of this forum.. his mistake has absolutley nothing to do with the curent issue...

the issue is a forum that advertises itself blatantly as a place to DISCUSS e-cigarettes is making a run at regulating them.. if they wish to be a government.. it's time to break out the ballots and actually VOTE for the leadership

 

[Katattack]

While I do agree that it would be unwise of ECF to move forward with this regulation it's not because they should operate as a democracy or republic. I think it's just simple business logic...if you want to bring in revenue with supporters and advertising you need traffic. However, a forum is like a person's home they can make the rules, even stupid ones...but if you want regular guests in your "home" you might not want to have rules/regulations that the masses will find displeasing.

 

[shivadance]

the issue is a forum that advertises itself blatantly as a place to DISCUSS e-cigarettes is making a run at regulating them.. if they wish to be a government.. it's time to break out the ballots and actually VOTE for the leadership

Or have a poll to pick the new slogan...

 

[Katattack]

it SHOULD be treated as a home... and although that instantly implies following their rules... it ALSO implies respect and courtesy to one's guests..

Absolutely, people don't remain guests or return as guests otherwise.

 

[taukimada]

Absolutely, people don't remain guests or return as guests otherwise.

i keep meaning to point out as i read this thread... that your sigline is rather funny.. considering the subject matter LOL

i'd also like to point out.. that altho i'm sure if read by the wrong person.. my posts may SEEM anti-ecf.. they are not.. they are anti the policy recently proposed by roly..

 

[ECCO]

I'd rather ECF just disallow mod advertising and discussion rather than jump through a bunch of hoops to discuss or find information on mods and batts. Mods are all I use anymore. If mods are that much of a potential liability then just axe all mod info.

Honestly, I had more issues with automatic factory batts than mod batts and I've been using mods longer.

There are other forums you can go to where battery safety is always a topic of discussion. I can think of at least one place that has even had members take it on themselves to intentionally stress a battery to where it vents, so they can share the knowledge of acceptable stresses and boundaries with the people who would use them. But the real issue here is that, for better or worse, this is the first place Google finds when looking for anything e-cig related. Considering how many vapers also use mods, and how many people eventually turn to HV because standard batteries don't cut it for them, ECF would be doing everyone who finds this site in the future a huge disservice by not allowing the info here.

And then there's the cloud of potential banning of PV's that hangs over the whole community. Where would people get the information to build their own devices or maintain the ones they have if the information wasn't allowed? I don't spend enough time here for any of this to be a big concern for me. But for the community as a whole, not allowing the information is the wrong decision, plain and simple. ECF has no liability at all if something bad happens because of their own carelessness.

I think the real focus needs to be on educating people how to be as safe as possible. It's really not that hard (and certainly not rocket science; that's just being lazy). Even though that information is all over the place, it still seems like a lot of people miss it entirely (or just don't pay attention to how severe the risk can really be). Focus on developing a wiki or something, focusing on safety of big battery mods and treating people like adults, and the worst that can happen is the same people still don't listen. But a lot of people coming to the forums in the future would be safer than they would be if the info wasn't allowed.

 

[anim8r]

First the FDA, then screwball scientists and doctors, and now our own forum is discussing possible bans on products... by commitee?



I imagine people will leave this forum by the hundreds if they need to wait for a safety panel to approve the latest mods before we get any news on them.

We come here to see new developments and watch reviews on the latest hardware. As an aside, we look into the risks and for ways to improve our vaping experience and (hopefully) learn from our mistakes.

I think some people need to stay focused on the main reason for this board's existance. PEOPLE STILL DIE DAILY, AND PAINFULLY I MIGHT ADD, FROM SMOKING CIGARETTES. No one has died from an exploding e-cig (and that is not likely to change).

Any electrical device can be dangerous.

If we were seeing an epidemic number of battery failures and explosions everywhere, then I can see ECF looking into starting a commitee to find the safest battery manufacturers and recommending them to their users, but determining what a "safe" mod is, is rediculous and a fool's (read: impossible) errand.

Once the commitee goes on record and declares a mod "safe", THEN they will share culpability, which is the exact opposite of Rolygate's desire. Pretty ironic


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