I agree 100%! I also believe we should treat e-cigs the same way we do analogs. At this point we (the users) can not prove these are safe for us or other people. Please people, don't go walking into your local grocery store vaping away causing trouble and then telling everyone how safe the e-cigs are.
Retracting My Support (?) for ECA
- Thread starter WillPower
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I agree 100%! I also believe we should treat e-cigs the same way we do analogs. At this point we (the users) can not prove these are safe for us or other people. Please people, don't go walking into your local grocery store vaping away causing trouble and then telling everyone how safe the e-cigs are.
From everything I've read, you're right Tone. This is not selective enforcement against those making health claims. This is catch-as-catch-can; the FDA has said these are illegal to sell or import.
The thing we're all waiting for is a crackdown enforcement on products the FDA has said are illegal. No one is voluntarily turning in shipments, so we await enforcement before the real impact is felt.
The thing we're all waiting for is a crackdown enforcement on products the FDA has said are illegal. No one is voluntarily turning in shipments, so we await enforcement before the real impact is felt.
TB is correct: they are stopping the shipments when the see them. Make it clear that its any brand, not based on health claims.
The FDA/Customs does not need to be aggressive. The random stoppage of shipments will make the smaller e-cig vendors go bankrupt or just decide its not worth the risk. The larger ones wont be able to keep their distribution network supplied and will also go bankrupt or give up.
I still think the FDA is out of line and if someone had the money and will they could call them on it in court. It will be interesting to see how things play out.
The FDA/Customs does not need to be aggressive. The random stoppage of shipments will make the smaller e-cig vendors go bankrupt or just decide its not worth the risk. The larger ones wont be able to keep their distribution network supplied and will also go bankrupt or give up.
I still think the FDA is out of line and if someone had the money and will they could call them on it in court. It will be interesting to see how things play out.
I'm not convinced that this is true, at least as of yet. It is possible some brands' shipments are still getting in with no problems, despite their contents being fully known - njoy for one. I may be wrong about this, but I won't be convinced I am until I hear that NJOY is having supply problems.
To me the bottom line is they are legal in China - a developing country, soon to be a developed country, if not already, like all of Europe (or most of?).
Isn't it 4 years now, and wouldn't we have heard of horror stories about these awful e-cigs yet??
I haven't heard of any, and Obama at the G20 Meeting deemed, and clearly vowed, that working together globally is the only viable option to address the sad state of the Global economies. Banning a device, otherwise legal in China and Europe would be contradictory to the President's agenda.
Maybe, just maybe, the state of the economy can help our cause (whatever our cause is).
Even the incompetents should know the ramifications. We are a huge market and I doubt very much that in these Depression like economic times, we would actually impede exports from overseas.
Again, Europe and China would not accept any policy such as that. We owe them too much money LOL (personally, I really don't care, they loaned it, they need it, if we default, who cares--whose worse off? alas, I drifted away for moment )
Ready for the bad news? Here is what I think will ultimately happen: (Now bare with me, please LOL) I agree with those who assert the FDA has no jurisdiction in this matter. In fact, when a case ever makes it to court, that will be the first challenge, the jurisdictional issue.
Again, please bear with me as this is a rather odd comparison:
In the early days of the Internet, the major telephone companies stayed away from offering Internet access to consumers. Mostly, the mom and pop shops were offering those services. It doesn't take a genius to know how short lived that would be.
I liken this to the mom and pop suppliers being wiped out as the incompetents in DC turn the manufacturing and sales of e-cigs over to Big Tobacco Companies. That satisfies the lobbyists and legislatures who have interests in Big Tobacco States and the Tobacco Companies. The regulation issue is then met as well.
I'm very new to e-cigs, (this is only my second post here (Hi ALL!) and only dealt with two suppliers so far. Customer service was excellent. Just like it was with the mom and pop Internet service providers.
And you can get mad at me if you want, as I always speak my mind and am bound to p*iss somebody off--I don't know what is in the e-juice, and to some extent, that does worry me. BUT it was not a problem in Europe or China, or India.
If we could get the e-liquid tested, and tested on a regular basis, put on the proper labels the incompetents want, maybe, just maybe, e-juice could survive as a thriving industry inside the USA? Accessories too.
Are the US suppliers willing to sacrifce? I don't know. However, one company (can we mention names? [TW]) that we all know, has already, voluntarily submitted their e-juice to a lab for testing with favorable results. So what do you think? Am I way off base, and who did I unknowingly pis* off?
Now a little forum game: If anybody read this entire post, if you have a reply, state I read the entire post. Then we will know who did not read the entire post. Hell, I'm guilty of only reading the first few lines too! Human nature!
My name is Mike, but you can call me anything you like. I feel like a "Joe" today
Now lets see hoe many replies will put the word "Joe" in it for further proof they read the entire message. Yes, I know I am an .... LOL
Mike (or Joe, Jack-as*no matter)
P.S. There may be dupe message out there. The screen jumped on me, and I could not find my way back.
Isn't it 4 years now, and wouldn't we have heard of horror stories about these awful e-cigs yet??
I haven't heard of any, and Obama at the G20 Meeting deemed, and clearly vowed, that working together globally is the only viable option to address the sad state of the Global economies. Banning a device, otherwise legal in China and Europe would be contradictory to the President's agenda.
Maybe, just maybe, the state of the economy can help our cause (whatever our cause is).
Even the incompetents should know the ramifications. We are a huge market and I doubt very much that in these Depression like economic times, we would actually impede exports from overseas.
Again, Europe and China would not accept any policy such as that. We owe them too much money LOL (personally, I really don't care, they loaned it, they need it, if we default, who cares--whose worse off? alas, I drifted away for moment )
Ready for the bad news? Here is what I think will ultimately happen: (Now bare with me, please LOL) I agree with those who assert the FDA has no jurisdiction in this matter. In fact, when a case ever makes it to court, that will be the first challenge, the jurisdictional issue.
Again, please bear with me as this is a rather odd comparison:
In the early days of the Internet, the major telephone companies stayed away from offering Internet access to consumers. Mostly, the mom and pop shops were offering those services. It doesn't take a genius to know how short lived that would be.
I liken this to the mom and pop suppliers being wiped out as the incompetents in DC turn the manufacturing and sales of e-cigs over to Big Tobacco Companies. That satisfies the lobbyists and legislatures who have interests in Big Tobacco States and the Tobacco Companies. The regulation issue is then met as well.
I'm very new to e-cigs, (this is only my second post here (Hi ALL!) and only dealt with two suppliers so far. Customer service was excellent. Just like it was with the mom and pop Internet service providers.
And you can get mad at me if you want, as I always speak my mind and am bound to p*iss somebody off--I don't know what is in the e-juice, and to some extent, that does worry me. BUT it was not a problem in Europe or China, or India.
If we could get the e-liquid tested, and tested on a regular basis, put on the proper labels the incompetents want, maybe, just maybe, e-juice could survive as a thriving industry inside the USA? Accessories too.
Are the US suppliers willing to sacrifce? I don't know. However, one company (can we mention names? [TW]) that we all know, has already, voluntarily submitted their e-juice to a lab for testing with favorable results. So what do you think? Am I way off base, and who did I unknowingly pis* off?
Now a little forum game: If anybody read this entire post, if you have a reply, state I read the entire post. Then we will know who did not read the entire post. Hell, I'm guilty of only reading the first few lines too! Human nature!
My name is Mike, but you can call me anything you like. I feel like a "Joe" today
Now lets see hoe many replies will put the word "Joe" in it for further proof they read the entire message. Yes, I know I am an .... LOL
Mike (or Joe, Jack-as*no matter)
P.S. There may be dupe message out there. The screen jumped on me, and I could not find my way back.
I respectrully disagree Tbob. If this was the case there would be more problems for our suppliers and as someone else mentioned nJoy, Smoke 51, and others. These people are importing a LOT of stock. No offense to our forum suppliers, but there stock is nothing compared to the "big dogs".
It is either that or our customs suck. If that is the case no need to worry anyway.
I don't have editing privileges, so make that China loaned us money, we owe it. I still don't care, China should care though LOL
Maybe, maybe not, but either way it has not been enough for them to stop selling to various Truck Stops and other big stores. I don't think these folks are ordering 50 - 100 kits at a time. I imagine there products are probably on a pallet and very visible to customs agents.
Btw - I am not trying to be arguementative. It is just the way I see it.
Tp, if this wasn't the case then why would any shipment be seized?I respectrully disagree Tbob. If this was the case there would be more problems for our suppliers and as someone else mentioned nJoy, Smoke 51, and others. These people are importing a LOT of stock. No offense to our forum suppliers, but there stock is nothing compared to the "big dogs".
It is either that or our customs suck. If that is the case no need to worry anyway.
there is something going on. I read today on another post the someone got their personal order sized.I don't think that customs in just stopping orders on their own, something/one is behind it.
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NJOY is backordered on a warranty replacement battery I need. So, I believe they are affected by something. Could just a manufacturing backlog or halted shipments. No one will say for sure. In the meantime, they are supposed to be shipping me an all white atomizer and battery (yuck) until my burgundy penstyle batteries are in stock. Certainly cannot complain with their customer service, assuming you can actually get someone to talk to you or return a phone call.
And, what is one of the first things the ECA is doing? Opposing the Waxman legislation.
Isn't that suggestive? For as I mentioned before, if the FDA does get control of cigarettes, then the matter becomes much more complicated and difficult. That is, if we believe there is a valid counter argument to the FDA's current claims when ecigs are characterized and marketed as simply cigarette alternatives rather than a (new) smoking cessation device.
Well Tone, to ask the same question. Why are shipments making it through? As I said I believe some of these shipments are pretty large. Again maybe our customs are that bad? I still think it could be the packaging and labeling. We have a buttload of suppliers now on this forum and it is few and far between for their orders to get stopped. It is somewhat of a mystery lol.
In the beginning, the ATF (I know it's called something new now) said ecigs didn't fall under their jurisdiction because they did not contain tobacco. And the FDA said they didn't fall within theirs because they were not considered a "drug".
So, ecigs fell between the cracks, as there was no regulatory category they fit squarely within.
Now, the FDA has changed it's tune, and it's that change we are fighting.
Well common sense would tell us that since nicotine is a drug that it would indeed fall squarely under the fda's jurisdiction. which in turn would mean the manufacturers would have to get approval which they really aren't interested in getting.
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