Thanks, Scott -- I had forgotten you said you actually wanted some "margin" at the beginning and end for splicing.
Awesome. My camera takes QuickTime video. ~~Cheryl
The ECA Disclosed
- Thread starter ECA
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Awesome. My camera takes QuickTime video. ~~Cheryl
Excellent video! I just linked to it on my site, I assume that's ok. If there is any problem with that just PM me.
ah... no... there is no problem with that at all...
this should be plastered from one end of the internet to the other!
Thanks for posting!
Is there any way to download the video? I would like to show it at work but youtube is blocked. Great video btw.
John
John
YouTube Video Download Tool
You should be able to download it as a .flv video
Great video! This should be sent to every news channel in the USA.
Don't forget to sign up for the ECA news letter at [FONT="]Electronic Cigarette Association
You will receive updated info as well as future information on ECA consumer membership!
[/FONT]
You will receive updated info as well as future information on ECA consumer membership!
[/FONT]
If Anyone Missed The Link Or The Video Its Here On Their Home Page:
Electronic Cigarette Association
Keep Vapin!
Electronic Cigarette Association
Keep Vapin!
Well since the media contacts listed on ECA's webpage have @McMurry.com email addresses, have you become clients of that marketing/PR firm? I truly hope so. They seem to be a really good company ethics wise*.
I know njoy is already one of their clients is this just an extension of that? Or is this a new contract for the ECA as a whole?
Either way, it's good to see some professional expertise being applied to this to go along with the political expertise of your president. I look forward to seeing this unfold.
McMurry.com :: Advertising & PR :: Portfolio
*Of course they ARE a PR firm so you'd expect them to make themselves look good.
I know njoy is already one of their clients is this just an extension of that? Or is this a new contract for the ECA as a whole?
Either way, it's good to see some professional expertise being applied to this to go along with the political expertise of your president. I look forward to seeing this unfold.
McMurry.com :: Advertising & PR :: Portfolio
*Of course they ARE a PR firm so you'd expect them to make themselves look good.
When will there be a published list of participating members?
Separated by manufacture, corporate, and sellers. (Eg, NJoy, the corporation as opposed to some NJoy seller, pretending to be the owner of the company. And the actual manufacture of the NJoy, who is not owned by the corporation, since we know these are remanufactured OEM's with a marketing relabel. The actual manufacture is more important than the reseller, as the reseller is just a sales-hype pusher. However, resellers should be listed, as they are the ones responsible for the purchase from the manufacture, and the claims listed in the sales. Also this can be used to identify companies selling counterfeits, who are not registered as a "name-brand", and not authorized to resell under that name.)
Just as Ruyan limits who has rights to sell, and they only list one known official reseller. (If you didn't buy it from that reseller, Ruyan is not honoring any warranties that unregistered sellers offer.)
At the moment, I only see a person with good intentions, collecting money/funds for something he is not qualified to lead. Just pointing out my concerns, as a consumer. I don't want to see my consumer prices driven-up because resellers and manufactures are dumping money into phantom-factions, with no power, rights, ability, or qualifications to do what they say. We already have an FDA... So now we, the consumer, have to pay twice the overhead, once for the FDA, and again for a phantom-group?
There is nothing to lobby... It will never be allowed, to have "Unlabeled chemicals", "Unregulated smoking/alternative devices", "Unregulated nicotine derived from tobacco", "Unregulated experimental synthetic nicotine", etc...
Once those things are in place... These will be as legal as nicotine-water, snus, cigarettes, alcohol, chewing-tobacco, nicotine gum, nicotine patches, nicotine spray, and nicotine drops.
The problem comes from sellers who have no clue what they are selling, and are not aware of the law, related to selling these things. If they are not aware of the law, or have purposefully neglected it... That is a danger to the consumer. That is neglect, even if it is unknown neglect.
If a person is not aware that murder is illegal, and they murder someone... they are still guilty of murder. (However, there is a chance of reduced punishment, in certain rare cases.)
The fact of the matter is still the "Shady" sales by those who hoped to skirt under the law, just long enough to make a dollar before they got caught. Also those who believe they are doing the right thing, but actually have no clue about the law, and thus, apparently have no clue about the actual product they are standing behind.
Most of these things were manufactured in China, for use in China, and there was no interest in US sales, except by those who saw these as being a profitable source of easy money. It is easy when you don't pay for the rights to sell, don't pay for the research, don't pay taxes, and just sit back and collect from drop-shipping. (That is not all sellers, but a majority.)
Many sellers don't even know who the manufacture is, or they do, and refuse to tell you. They don't tell you what is in the juice, because they have no idea what is in there. I had a mall-rat-seller tell me that NJoy contained only water and nicotine. Another told me the NJoy contained nothing but pure nicotine, and said there was no water or other additives. One said the liquid contained pure cigarette extract and water, implying that all the other chemicals are still present.
It is obvious that the manufacturers are not giving enough information for a "Safe" sale to a reseller, and the sellers are not giving the correct info for a consumer to make a "Safe" choice.
All the sales depend on the phrase... "Trust me, would I lie to you?"
and... "It must be OK, because they let me buy it."
and... "It should be...", "It is thought to be...", "It could be...", or "Yes, it is/does."
Without anything other than testimony, and direction to irrelevant studies that don't involve the device, or the juices, or have incomplete data related to the juices.
"juice tests negative for Carbon Monoxide.", does not say what it tests positive for. There are an infinite number of chemical compositions that it can test negative for. That does not indicate what is inside. Oh, unless everything not listed as "Negative", is inside the chemical. (We must assume that all 2000+ chemicals in a cigarette are also inside the juice, plus the ones they say they added. Since they fail to list all contents.)
You see... they don't have copyrights to the formulas, so anyone can make them. That is why they refuse to tell you what is inside. Or, they are dumping all china's toxic waste into these things, to smuggle it out of the country, and toxify the non-Chinese population. Who knows... not us... but soon we will, and it won't be because of a phantom-group, it will be from enforcement agencies that already exist, with the power to control, and the ability to protect consumers.
No offence to anyone... but I am expressing my right to doubt, where doubt is deserved.
The manufacturers will not be at fault... because they didn't sell it to a consumer. They sold it to a US seller, who should have sold the product to places where it is allowed, such as back to Chinese citizens. It is not their fault that the sellers are breaking international laws. Since they did not provide instruction for sale to places where it is not legal for sale.
Separated by manufacture, corporate, and sellers. (Eg, NJoy, the corporation as opposed to some NJoy seller, pretending to be the owner of the company. And the actual manufacture of the NJoy, who is not owned by the corporation, since we know these are remanufactured OEM's with a marketing relabel. The actual manufacture is more important than the reseller, as the reseller is just a sales-hype pusher. However, resellers should be listed, as they are the ones responsible for the purchase from the manufacture, and the claims listed in the sales. Also this can be used to identify companies selling counterfeits, who are not registered as a "name-brand", and not authorized to resell under that name.)
Just as Ruyan limits who has rights to sell, and they only list one known official reseller. (If you didn't buy it from that reseller, Ruyan is not honoring any warranties that unregistered sellers offer.)
At the moment, I only see a person with good intentions, collecting money/funds for something he is not qualified to lead. Just pointing out my concerns, as a consumer. I don't want to see my consumer prices driven-up because resellers and manufactures are dumping money into phantom-factions, with no power, rights, ability, or qualifications to do what they say. We already have an FDA... So now we, the consumer, have to pay twice the overhead, once for the FDA, and again for a phantom-group?
There is nothing to lobby... It will never be allowed, to have "Unlabeled chemicals", "Unregulated smoking/alternative devices", "Unregulated nicotine derived from tobacco", "Unregulated experimental synthetic nicotine", etc...
Once those things are in place... These will be as legal as nicotine-water, snus, cigarettes, alcohol, chewing-tobacco, nicotine gum, nicotine patches, nicotine spray, and nicotine drops.
The problem comes from sellers who have no clue what they are selling, and are not aware of the law, related to selling these things. If they are not aware of the law, or have purposefully neglected it... That is a danger to the consumer. That is neglect, even if it is unknown neglect.
If a person is not aware that murder is illegal, and they murder someone... they are still guilty of murder. (However, there is a chance of reduced punishment, in certain rare cases.)
The fact of the matter is still the "Shady" sales by those who hoped to skirt under the law, just long enough to make a dollar before they got caught. Also those who believe they are doing the right thing, but actually have no clue about the law, and thus, apparently have no clue about the actual product they are standing behind.
Most of these things were manufactured in China, for use in China, and there was no interest in US sales, except by those who saw these as being a profitable source of easy money. It is easy when you don't pay for the rights to sell, don't pay for the research, don't pay taxes, and just sit back and collect from drop-shipping. (That is not all sellers, but a majority.)
Many sellers don't even know who the manufacture is, or they do, and refuse to tell you. They don't tell you what is in the juice, because they have no idea what is in there. I had a mall-rat-seller tell me that NJoy contained only water and nicotine. Another told me the NJoy contained nothing but pure nicotine, and said there was no water or other additives. One said the liquid contained pure cigarette extract and water, implying that all the other chemicals are still present.
It is obvious that the manufacturers are not giving enough information for a "Safe" sale to a reseller, and the sellers are not giving the correct info for a consumer to make a "Safe" choice.
All the sales depend on the phrase... "Trust me, would I lie to you?"
and... "It must be OK, because they let me buy it."
and... "It should be...", "It is thought to be...", "It could be...", or "Yes, it is/does."
Without anything other than testimony, and direction to irrelevant studies that don't involve the device, or the juices, or have incomplete data related to the juices.
"juice tests negative for Carbon Monoxide.", does not say what it tests positive for. There are an infinite number of chemical compositions that it can test negative for. That does not indicate what is inside. Oh, unless everything not listed as "Negative", is inside the chemical. (We must assume that all 2000+ chemicals in a cigarette are also inside the juice, plus the ones they say they added. Since they fail to list all contents.)
You see... they don't have copyrights to the formulas, so anyone can make them. That is why they refuse to tell you what is inside. Or, they are dumping all china's toxic waste into these things, to smuggle it out of the country, and toxify the non-Chinese population. Who knows... not us... but soon we will, and it won't be because of a phantom-group, it will be from enforcement agencies that already exist, with the power to control, and the ability to protect consumers.
No offence to anyone... but I am expressing my right to doubt, where doubt is deserved.
The manufacturers will not be at fault... because they didn't sell it to a consumer. They sold it to a US seller, who should have sold the product to places where it is allowed, such as back to Chinese citizens. It is not their fault that the sellers are breaking international laws. Since they did not provide instruction for sale to places where it is not legal for sale.
Last edited:
The ECA will be listing all supplier and manufacturer members on the site once they are offically approved.
Many of the other concerns will be addressed as well.... give us some time please... we had to get moving in such a rush... but we absolutely have the same concerns ....
We just need time to iron everything out and make it as official as possible... there is much going on behind the scenes to get everything in place...creating a second or third full time job for most of us.
There will be some manufacturer participation...there will be testing and evidence there will be quality control... and etc... members will not be added willy nilly....
Unfortunatly the time table was set for us not by us....
your concerns are valid...just watch it unviel in its due course and i am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
Many of the other concerns will be addressed as well.... give us some time please... we had to get moving in such a rush... but we absolutely have the same concerns ....
We just need time to iron everything out and make it as official as possible... there is much going on behind the scenes to get everything in place...creating a second or third full time job for most of us.
There will be some manufacturer participation...there will be testing and evidence there will be quality control... and etc... members will not be added willy nilly....
Unfortunatly the time table was set for us not by us....
your concerns are valid...just watch it unviel in its due course and i am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
I don't want to offend, either. . . but why not join the FDA?
Also, what "international laws" are the sellers breaking? This is the USA-- a sovereign nation. We don't honor "international laws" (yet) although we honor treaties that we make. That's why we don't participate in International courts.
It is true that the Chinese have less stringent controls and regulation, but that is ALSO why more innovative products have been coming out of China lately. As the Chinese government have opened up the free market quite a bit, the Chinese people have the spirit of entrepreneurship we once prided ourselves in having.
The Chinese people WANT to succeed as much as Americans used to want to. It's not in their best interest to send over toxic waste. It's also not in their best interest to poison us. It's in their best interest to produce a good product that we will keep buying and enjoy so that we will spend our money and so they will make theirs.
Edited to add: I'm not saying we should always trust blindly. But I actually trust the e liquid and am quite comfortable continuing to do so without our government intervening. I am not against SELF-regulation, though. I would like to see the manufacturers self-regulate their products.
Last edited:
I know I mentioned it once or twice... just backing you up that you werent the only one.
At this point, reading through this thread, I guess I couldnt care less what they're called.
And at this point, I couldnt care less about getting into a pissing match with anyone over this.
And at this point, Im just glad someone has put together an Association that can lobby for the interests of our beloved products.
Am I wrong to assume the ECA is kind of like the NRA? In that the NRA only supports the RIGHTS of gun owners, and works to protect the right to bear arms? Yet it doesnt tell me who to buy my guns from, nor do they push gun dealers out because they are not an active member?
My best,
-VP
Just a quickie from moi:
I was initially skeptical about ECA's composition and agenda, as well as the call-to-immediate-arms in the other thread. However, given the FDA's recent actions, or threat of them, I came to sympathise with the urgency (and attendant gaucheries) of the ECA announcements. I was very impressed with the honesty in Lacey's 'losing it' post.
Anyway, good luck today (or henceforth, should the May 5 crackdown turn out to be all wind and piss). Watching US events with great concern.
Emp
I was initially skeptical about ECA's composition and agenda, as well as the call-to-immediate-arms in the other thread. However, given the FDA's recent actions, or threat of them, I came to sympathise with the urgency (and attendant gaucheries) of the ECA announcements. I was very impressed with the honesty in Lacey's 'losing it' post.
Anyway, good luck today (or henceforth, should the May 5 crackdown turn out to be all wind and piss). Watching US events with great concern.
Emp
I hate to quote all of that, but if I felt the way you do i would continue with my Marlboro analogs and never give e-cigs another look!
May 5th crackdown? Okay, I must've missed something here. What's supposed to be happening tomorrow, and should I be worried? I've already written to and called my legislators, and will write/call the WH tomorrow as well, but what's happening tomorrow?
~~Cheryl
~~Cheryl
At this point my dear, we aren't quite sure what the FDA is going to do. Is it worth stressing over? No. It is what it is and at this point, we can only hope that we are prepared and ready to go with gusto.
You have done tons and it is much appreciated...
Enjoy your ecig... We will see what happens throughout the day. What a wild ride we are going on eh?
You have done tons and it is much appreciated...
Enjoy your ecig... We will see what happens throughout the day. What a wild ride we are going on eh?
Bravo you guys! I am so proud of all of you for taking the bull by the horns and getting this association together! I knew that this forum was the best of them all, and you guys proved it!
I've been rallying for causes ever since my second grade, when I lobbied the school administration to allow girls to wear pants. Fighting's in my blood. Is it any wonder I joined the Army? Anyway, as long as I know what needs to be done, I'll find a way to git 'r done if it'll keep me vaping!
~~Cheryl
~~Cheryl
My concern is justified...
Don't get me wrong... This is the correct direction... sort-of...
I keep reading about disclosure, but do not see any...
I keep reading about the many members, but can not find any listed...
I read the part about fees, which seems to be a number out of the blue, and seems like someones prior salary, more than an actual justified fee... and no publication of any proposed actions...
To me, the consumer, the one paying the actual bill... That was collected from me/us, by the sales agents... This looks like one company, not even in the USA, attempting to be the "big guy", regulator, by collecting tariffs, and squishing any other smaller seller who can't afford to pay, or doesn't wish to participate in an, "Unofficial government approved agency", AKA, union. A union built off good intentions, but without the disclosure they speak-of, without the certification of the actual controlling authorities, and apparently without any structure... but give them money, and they will try it. Try what?
All they are doing, is proving that these things need government control, by showing how many people are abusing the devices and chemicals, and how many are willing to continue use if it is proven to cause harm. (The same things that made Salvia, and Marijuana, and Coke, and Opium illegal.)
This whole forum is full of people defeating the computer regulation, doubling the vapor byproduct consumption, mixing potentially dangerous home-brews, and leading others into experimentation with more dangerous methods of sales.
To any government, this group and website looks like the perfect reason to get an official ban rushed to the table. This does not look like a group that is looking out for anyone except themselves, and the rights to keep selling to consumers, no matter what the risk, as long as it is still in the low odds range.
Seriously... am I the only one who sees this?
I don't see the voice of consumers, only the voice of about a dozen sellers who seem to be fighting for the right to continue selling, to make more money from consumers.
What is the association doing to see that the items being sold are within the confines of the law?
Where are the letters to the manufacturers? Where are the replies back from the manufactures?
Where is this itemized, "Full disclosure", which all official organizations are required to have? (You do realize there are taxes on those fees, even as a non-profit.)
What qualifications, other than being in a political office, does this group have? Where are the lawyers to defend the group, the lawyers to assist the joined members? Where are the tests to confirm that there is no justification for this FDA investigation? Where are the "Standards", suggestions published?
Seriously... I do want this, well, something to succeed...
However, I refuse to butter it up, and play kiss-..., in hopes that the rose-odor air-freshener which was just hung-up, is enough to keep FDA, DEA, and the FTC at bay.
While big sellers loose money, getting knocked down into small sellers from a large lost investment... or while the small sellers get out-cast because they were not around long enough to generate enough abundant cash-flow to get support from this association.
You are right... the customers can just go back to analogs... and they will... most of them. However, a small select group of dedicated followers will remain, and potentially create a bigger mess. (Using completely unregulated items, and methods. Where as now... they are only unknown regulated items. These large companies are not feeding a temporary product, they are creating a potential new source of long-term consumers. The last thing they want to do, is harm us.)
Don't get me wrong... This is the correct direction... sort-of...
I keep reading about disclosure, but do not see any...
I keep reading about the many members, but can not find any listed...
I read the part about fees, which seems to be a number out of the blue, and seems like someones prior salary, more than an actual justified fee... and no publication of any proposed actions...
To me, the consumer, the one paying the actual bill... That was collected from me/us, by the sales agents... This looks like one company, not even in the USA, attempting to be the "big guy", regulator, by collecting tariffs, and squishing any other smaller seller who can't afford to pay, or doesn't wish to participate in an, "Unofficial government approved agency", AKA, union. A union built off good intentions, but without the disclosure they speak-of, without the certification of the actual controlling authorities, and apparently without any structure... but give them money, and they will try it. Try what?
All they are doing, is proving that these things need government control, by showing how many people are abusing the devices and chemicals, and how many are willing to continue use if it is proven to cause harm. (The same things that made Salvia, and Marijuana, and Coke, and Opium illegal.)
This whole forum is full of people defeating the computer regulation, doubling the vapor byproduct consumption, mixing potentially dangerous home-brews, and leading others into experimentation with more dangerous methods of sales.
To any government, this group and website looks like the perfect reason to get an official ban rushed to the table. This does not look like a group that is looking out for anyone except themselves, and the rights to keep selling to consumers, no matter what the risk, as long as it is still in the low odds range.
Seriously... am I the only one who sees this?
I don't see the voice of consumers, only the voice of about a dozen sellers who seem to be fighting for the right to continue selling, to make more money from consumers.
What is the association doing to see that the items being sold are within the confines of the law?
Where are the letters to the manufacturers? Where are the replies back from the manufactures?
Where is this itemized, "Full disclosure", which all official organizations are required to have? (You do realize there are taxes on those fees, even as a non-profit.)
What qualifications, other than being in a political office, does this group have? Where are the lawyers to defend the group, the lawyers to assist the joined members? Where are the tests to confirm that there is no justification for this FDA investigation? Where are the "Standards", suggestions published?
Seriously... I do want this, well, something to succeed...
However, I refuse to butter it up, and play kiss-..., in hopes that the rose-odor air-freshener which was just hung-up, is enough to keep FDA, DEA, and the FTC at bay.
While big sellers loose money, getting knocked down into small sellers from a large lost investment... or while the small sellers get out-cast because they were not around long enough to generate enough abundant cash-flow to get support from this association.
You are right... the customers can just go back to analogs... and they will... most of them. However, a small select group of dedicated followers will remain, and potentially create a bigger mess. (Using completely unregulated items, and methods. Where as now... they are only unknown regulated items. These large companies are not feeding a temporary product, they are creating a potential new source of long-term consumers. The last thing they want to do, is harm us.)
Last edited:
- Status
