Rig Mod Explodes

[tj99959]

Let's see, right now there is a N-Zonic, a Mako, 2 Chi Yous'", 3 Caravelas', and a Nemeses, 2 Silver Bullets', and an Omega sitting on my desk. So please carry on, I really need to know how a mechanical/unregulated mod works.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm all for safety. There really is a reason that I have never had a bad incident in the 6 years that I've been using mechanical mods.
I just can't go along with all the assumptions that have been made in this thread.

 

[sawlight]

Let's see, right now there is a N-Zonic, a Mako, 2 Chi Yous'", 3 Caravelas', and a Nemeses, 2 Silver Bullets', and an Omega sitting on my desk. So please carry on, I really need to know how a mechanical/unregulated mod works.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm all for safety. I just can't go along with all the assumptions that have been made in this thread.

OK, what are your thoughts on what went wrong? As I said, I don't honestly know, wasn't there and can't prove anything, so it's all conjecture.
But what @Bad Ninja proposed is the most plausible explanation so far. Somehow, there had to be a direct short, so what are your thoughts on what caused it?

 

[Bad Ninja]

Name any scenario, other than an inverted battery with a torn wrapper, that would cause this.

Occam's razor.
Try it.
It cuts through the BS.

 

[tj99959]

so what are your thoughts on what caused it?

Complacency. Someone took something for granted causing them to do something stupid.

The most likely with that type of a mod ... the top of the battery was probably dented down, but ANY of a dozen different things could have been the reason.
What was the voltage of the battery when it came off the charger .... the list goes on ad infinitum.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Complacency. Someone took something for granted causing them to do something stupid.

I agree.
Placing a battery upside down in a Rig mod, with the wrapper damaged is about as careless and stupid as it gets.

 

[sawlight]

Complacency. Someone took something for granted causing them to do something stupid.

And the provided hypothesis doesn't cover that already? Torn wrapper, pretty stupid. Inverted battery, really stupid. Using a mech mod with a stupid low build on it, even more stupid? Not having enough sense to diagnose the problem with your own mod and handing it to a shop employee, which we all know are the brightest bulbs in the box (lots of sarcasm there!) pretty stupid!

 

[zoiDman]

Why Didn't the Mod work before it was given to the Vape Shop Employee?

 

[crxess]

Whole thread has gone sideways on What IF's.

Time to stop Schooling on the possible outcome of (IF) in relation to actual Functionality of a specific piece of Equipment by using completely inaccurate assumptions of Equivalence, i.e. Automobile(Fixed Wiring By Design) or Home wiring(A/C)

Remove the IF's of the Battery to understand the Functional Design of a Mechanical Mod. A very simple, Basic Design:
Metal Storage Tube
(2) Mechanical contacts, (1) at each end.


Now, Cure Most concerns of likely hood of Hard Short - Non conductive Insulator.

Now, Even when things are done to standards, bad things can follow.

Assumed Inverted Battery cause ( )

G.E. Microwave Failure

BMW - Wiring Failure

I made my living for most of my life:
1)Repairing Direct Current system Failures and Made an excellent living.
2)Designing/Installing Safe Direct Current Applications and Accessories.

My posts in this thread have nothing to do with Ignoring Safe Practice. They are to Functional Reality.
When things work correctly they are generally safe.
When they Fail....................Get out of the way.

 

[tj99959]

Point I trying to make is that if you use a mechanical, you had BETTER check for more than a torn wrapper and battery polarity.

 

[sawlight]

Why Didn't the Mod work before it was given to the Vape Shop Employee?

I'm gathering that doesn't matter! Haven't you been keeping up?
We've established the ignition switch in a car, doesn't actually start the car.
We've been schooled on how Mosfets and relays work, even though there are none in a mech mod.
We've been shown that electrons flow negative to positive.
We've been told that a switch is nothing more than an isolation device, with no point of failure.
We now know that nothing in an electrical circuit is neither negatively, or positively charged.
And someone did something "stupid" to cause this.
I've learned a lot from this thread, I need to throw out any and everything I ever knew about electricity because I'm just wrong.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Complacency. Someone took something for granted causing them to do something stupid.

The most likely with that type of a mod ... the top of the battery was probably dented down, but ANY of a dozen different things could have been the reason.
What was the voltage of the battery when it came off the charger .... the list goes on ad infinitum.

If the top was dented, short would occur, battery would swell and vent out the top end and blow the atty out.

Weve seen this happen often.

The mod in the Op blew out the switch.
If you have this mod, disassemble and look at the switch.
That isnt the path of least resistance.
The only scenario that makes sense is upside down cell and damaged wrapper.

Coulda been Aliens....but the above scenario is the only realistic one

 

[Bad Ninja]

Point I trying to make is that if you use a mechanical, you had BETTER check for more than a torn wrapper and battery polarity.

Same point I am making. Faking knowledge in the vape scene will get you hurt.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm gathering that doesn't matter! Haven't you been keeping up?
...

So we have a Non-Functioning Mod that Later goes Bang. And the Fact that it was Non-Functioning before it goes Bang Doesn't Matter.

OK. Sounds Good.

 

[sawlight]

So we have a Non-Functioning Mod that Later goes Bang. And the Fact that it was Non-Functioning before it goes Bang Doesn't Matter.

OK. Sounds Good.

Yup.

 

[Bad Ninja]

So we have a Non-Functioning Mod that Later goes Bang. And the Fact that it was Non-Functioning before it goes Bang Doesn't Matter.

OK. Sounds Good.

Dedutcive reasoning and critical thinking are required in life.
Applying those skills now would answer alot of your concerns.

Why would the employee replace the cell?
Dead battery perhaps?
Sounds totally reasonable and logical to me.

Again, it could be aliens if one wants to argue.....

There are a number of reasons.

Its also pretty clear neither the customer nor the employee were knowledgeable enough to be playing with mechs.

 

[Lessifer]

I have a general question, if anyone has an answer. Are there any confirmed cases when a build that was too low actually sent a battery into thermal runaway/resulted in venting?

All of the incidents I'm aware of have been estimated to be attributable to hard shorts. I'm not trying to say running a super low build is a good idea, just curious. How close to a hard short is too close for a build? Conventional knowledge used to be that anything under 1ohm was too low.

I would love to post an example of something potentially very dangerous...
Where any person can get one without having any idea of the potential danger...

But I can't think of any others.
It's just this.

Maybe some of you all smarter folks can think of a suitable example?
If not, that should be a clue that your argument is invalid.

And please don't give me chainsaws, lawnmowers, and muscle cars.
That insults the intelligence of an average human being.

I am one who often says these things are "user error." However, it's not that I think the user was an idiot, sometimes they are, but I don't just assume that. You have a very valid point that people don't see the potential danger, and may not know that they need to educate themselves. There have been incidents like these involving flashlights, those are pretty innocuous, but a hard short on a battery is a bad thing no matter what the container. I don't really see a way to fully prevent these things other than remove the "potentially dangerous" mods from the market, which would be all mechs, and to stop selling loose batteries. I don't think that's a viable option. So, we educate.

If I say "you should have known better" it may sound like "you're an idiot" but what it really means is "this was avoidable, please learn how to avoid it in the future."

 

[zoiDman]

Dedutcive reasoning and critical thinking are required in life.
...

Deductive Reasoning and Critical Thinking would Dictate that the Fact that the Mod was Not Performing Properly before this Incident can Not be Summarily Discounted.

But some people would rather Throw Out things that Don't Fit well into their Theories or Can't be Explained based on what they have been Told.

 

[crxess]

Its also pretty clear neither the customer nor the employee were knowledgeable enough to be playing with mechs.

Best statement so far in this thread..............

 

[sawlight]

I have a general question, if anyone has an answer. Are there any confirmed cases when a build that was too low actually sent a battery into thermal runaway/resulted in venting?

All of the incidents I'm aware of have been estimated to be attributable to hard shorts. I'm not trying to say running a super low build is a good idea, just curious. How close to a hard short is too close for a build? Conventional knowledge used to be that anything under 1ohm was too low.



I am one who often says these things are "user error." However, it's not that I think the user was an idiot, sometimes they are, but I don't just assume that. You have a very valid point that people don't see the potential danger, and may not know that they need to educate themselves. There have been incidents like these involving flashlights, those are pretty innocuous, but a hard short on a battery is a bad thing no matter what the container. I don't really see a way to fully prevent these things other than remove the "potentially dangerous" mods from the market, which would be all mechs, and to stop selling loose batteries. I don't think that's a viable option. So, we educate.

If I say "you should have known better" it may sound like "you're an idiot" but what it really means is "this was avoidable, please learn how to avoid it in the future."

I did have a friend with a stupid low build where he melted part of the wrapper on an MNKE battery, he re-wrapped it and carried on. Not something I'd do, or recommend. But that's as close as I've seen personally.

 

[crxess]

I have a general question, if anyone has an answer. Are there any confirmed cases when a build that was too low actually sent a battery into thermal runaway/resulted in venting?

Yes................... on YouTube that had to wrap a Rag around the mod due to Excessive heat...........went thermal as the battery drained

He threw the mod in a waste container in his bed room.