Rig Mod Explodes

[sawlight]

Assuming that there was a tear in the wrapping and the battery was inserted upside down,
wouldn't the case and the negative terminal be ground? The battery would short from the
tear in the wrap directly to the negative terminal. (assuming negative as ground.)
The switch isolates the ground from the coil with the positive terminal on the other side
of the coil.
With the switched open one way for a dead short to occur is through the wrapping
to the case directly to the positive terminal of the incorrectly inserted battery .
With a closed switch a Dead short can only occur when something by passes the coil
and completes a connection directly to the power terminals. If this occurs immediately
when the switch is closed that means the short is between the + side of the switch and
the negative side of the coil. As with my first scenario a dead short between the + side
of the coil would be evident as soon as the battery is inserted. Assuming the battery is
inserted correctly a tear in the wrap should have no affect if its not near the positive side
of the battery or the negative part of the tank.
In other word any short from the negative side of the switch or positive side of the coil
would be a dead short when inserting a battery.
Lastly with the switch open and a path to ground between the plus side of the switch and
negative side of the coil inserting the battery will cause the coil to fire continuously when inserted
correctly.
Theoretically in a mechanical mod it should not make a difference witch way the battery is
inserted. The switch and the coil do not care. So it gets down to when the short occurred.
If the battery is in perfect condition and the tank and tube are in proper working order
nothing should happen until the switch is closed. All things being equal current will just flow in the opposite direction.

Regards
Mike

Not the way that mod is made, as said it uses a "lift" switch to make the contact. The negative side of the battery is always in contact with the switch and it raises the battery to make contact with the positive pin. Set up that way, there is always contact with the negative and a tear in the wrapper wouldn't matter, as it would be grounded.
Put the same battery in upside down, now you have constant contact with the negative on the switch, but now it's positive. The tear in the wrapper is in contact with the side of the mod, that is supposed to be negatively charged from the switch. It creates a dead short, instantly.
Now take a Hades or Nemesis where the center pin on the switch has an insulator on it to shield the switch from making contact, nothing happens until you push the switch.
Does that help explain how that mod works better?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I would not have a Rig mod because the switch is so hard to take apart and inspect/clean.

 

[crxess]

Still waiting to see WHO CONFIRMED a torn wrapper............

* Rolygates Advice is OLD news and Not in direct correlation to Mechanical application of Current. There is NO Positive/Negative side to a Coil.

NO!!!!!! I am Not Promoting inserting a Battery inverted
However, there are MANY Mechanical mods that can use an inverted Battery.

The Problem is the USER Not knowing or following SAFE Practices.

Simple - Just Don't Do it.

* Nylon inserts could have stopped the Dead Short issue in Tubes long ago.(Pinless tops excluded)

 

[skoony]

Not the way that mod is made, as said it uses a "lift" switch to make the contact. The negative side of the battery is always in contact with the switch and it raises the battery to make contact with the positive pin. Set up that way, there is always contact with the negative and a tear in the wrapper wouldn't matter, as it would be grounded.
Put the same battery in upside down, now you have constant contact with the negative on the switch, but now it's positive. The tear in the wrapper is in contact with the side of the mod, that is supposed to be negatively charged from the switch. It creates a dead short, instantly.
Now take a Hades or Nemesis where the center pin on the switch has an insulator on it to shield the switch from making contact, nothing happens until you push the switch.
Does that help explain how that mod works better?

This doesn't mater. Once you put the battery in the wrong way the negative side becomes
the positive side and, the positive side becomes the negative side isolated by the switch.
Mike

 

[crxess]

Correction:
Rig and Rig v2 are NOT Battery lift. Both versions use the same switch design.

Firing Pin sits into a Machined Recess in the Base

Looks like 2 large semi- circular Slots for Bottom Venting

No Insulator used in the switch area

 

[sawlight]

This doesn't mater. Once you put the battery in the wrong way the negative side becomes
the positive side and, the positive side becomes the negative side isolated by the switch.
Mike

NO!! You aren't listening! It's a LIFT switch, as soon as you put a battery in, it's in contact with the SWITCH! PERIOD! There is NO isolation in this type of switch, that's what I'm trying to explain! There is no spring, no Delrin, NOTHING! It's in constant contact! Watch the video posted earlier, look into the mod, see how the battery rests on the the switch? There is no insulation, what so ever, to prevent contact. battery goes in, positive side instantly hits the switch, bad wrapper, instant short! IF this is what happened, I'm amazed if they even got the cap screwed all the way on!
Are you seeing it now?

 

[sawlight]

Correction:
Rig and Rig v2 are NOT Battery lift. Both versions use the same switch design.

Firing Pin sits into a Machined Recess in the Base

Looks like 2 large semi- circular Slots for Bottom Venting

No Insulator used in the switch area

How so? you push the switch, it lifts the battery and makes contact, how is that not a lift switch? Put the battery in, is it not going to make contact with the switch instantly? Regardless of polarity?

 

[crxess]

How so? you push the switch, it lifts the battery and makes contact, how is that not a lift switch? Put the battery in, is it not going to make contact with the switch instantly? Regardless of polarity?

No, Battery is Height Fitted.
Sits on a ledge on the Base and the Hybrid Top cap or Adjusted pinless top, makes contact with the Top of the Battery.
Switch rises from the recess to contact the Battery.

Original with Pinned top used top atty/height adjusting screws (dual adjustment)

 

[skoony]

NO!! You aren't listening! It's a LIFT switch, as soon as you put a battery in, it's in contact with the SWITCH! PERIOD! There is NO isolation in this type of switch, that's what I'm trying to explain! There is no spring, no Delrin, NOTHING! It's in constant contact! Watch the video posted earlier, look into the mod, see how the battery rests on the the switch? There is no insulation, what so ever, to prevent contact. battery goes in, positive side instantly hits the switch, bad wrapper, instant short! IF this is what happened, I'm amazed if they even got the cap screwed all the way on!
Are you seeing it now?

Unless something in the world of electronics and physics has changed since i got my AA
in electronics a switch is still a switch. It is either opened or closed. All switches
by there very nature are isolated between + and - sides of the circuit. They need no additional
insulator.
Switch= on or off. Closed or open.
Regards
mike

 

[crxess]

With a Non- insulated Mod Switch, This:

Will cause an Auto-fire(Negative down) and a Hard Short upon pressing the switch(negative up), regardless of insulator.

This:

will cause an instant hard short once the switch makes contact.
*depending on switch clearance, it may not even need to be pressed.

 

[tj99959]

Disagree all you like, I am 100% correct.
Batteries do not vent from the bottom, they vent from the top.
They also swell, and seal off the tube, which is why we have mods exploding from pressure and blowing the atty off...uless they are installed backwards, then they blow out the switch.


@Baditude even started a thread about improperly placed vent holes.


Im guessing you dont have alot of experience with venting cells.
I do.

No ... you're ASSUMING that you are 100% correct.
Batteries vent from wherever gas can get out. The vent at the top of a battery has a limited ability to vent those gases. In most cases of an actual PV explosion the battery shell ruptures.



You're right:
In 6 years of vaping I have never had a battery vent. Wonders if there is a reason I can say that!

You do?!? WOW that would be about the LAST thing I would want to brag about!

 

[zoiDman]

I dunno what version the Mod was that the OP posted a picture of. Or if it is a Clone Variant.

But at 4:00 in this vid it shows the v1 Switch...



And at 2.25 in this vid it shows a v2 Switch...



They look kinda the Same.

 

[sawlight]

No, Battery is Height Fitted.
Sits on a ledge on the Base and the Hybrid Top cap or Adjusted pinless top, makes contact with the Top of the Battery.
Switch rises from the recess to contact the Battery.

Original with Pinned top used top atty/height adjusting screws (dual adjustment)

I didn't see the ledge, so I may stand corrected.

Unless something in the world of electronics and physics has changed since i got my AA
in electronics a switch is still a switch. It is either opened or closed. All switches
by there very nature are isolated between + and - sides of the circuit. They need no additional
insulator.
Switch= on or off. Closed or open.
Regards
mike

But in a mechanical switch, it can still short out, no? Think of it this way, negative is always hot, with me? Then the battery is lifted to contact the pin. All it does is move the battery to make contact with the positive pin. Meaning the negative side is ALWAYS in connection with the ground, be it the body of the mod, a car body, anything. Actually, a car is a great example of this, as the entire car is negative contact.
What happens when a wire in a car gets chaffed and shorts out? Say the wire to the cig lighter rubs on the bare metal of the dash where it goes through because it was a Friday and the lazy employee didn't install the grommet? Is that not a direct short? Does that not blow the fuse?
In this case it's the same, but there is no fuse. In a car, it's catastrophic, it burns the harness and the car. In a mod, it blows the battery.
You are over thinking it, adding safeties. In the mech mod the only safety is between your ears!
Get it better now?

 

[skoony]

I didn't see the ledge, so I may stand corrected.


But in a mechanical switch, it can still short out, no? Think of it this way, negative is always hot, with me? Then the battery is lifted to contact the pin. All it does is move the battery to make contact with the positive pin. Meaning the negative side is ALWAYS in connection with the ground, be it the body of the mod, a car body, anything. Actually, a car is a great example of this, as the entire car is negative contact.
What happens when a wire in a car gets chaffed and shorts out? Say the wire to the cig lighter rubs on the bare metal of the dash where it goes through because it was a Friday and the lazy employee didn't install the grommet? Is that not a direct short? Does that not blow the fuse?
In this case it's the same, but there is no fuse. In a car, it's catastrophic, it burns the harness and the car. In a mod, it blows the battery.
You are over thinking it, adding safeties. In the mech mod the only safety is between your ears!
Get it better now?

If a switch is damaged or compromised by foreign material of course you could
have a shorted condition. In that case it would just turn the circuit on. You still
have the coil (the circuit or load) to take into account.
If you had read my previous posts you would have noticed I already said in a open switch scenario
if there was a dead short upon inserting the battery backwards was most likely due to a torn
wrap.
Regards
mike

 

[crxess]

I didn't see the ledge, so I may stand corrected.


But in a mechanical switch, it can still short out, no? Think of it this way, negative is always hot, with me? Then the battery is lifted to contact the pin. All it does is move the battery to make contact with the positive pin. Meaning the negative side is ALWAYS in connection with the ground, be it the body of the mod, a car body, anything. Actually, a car is a great example of this, as the entire car is negative contact.
What happens when a wire in a car gets chaffed and shorts out? Say the wire to the cig lighter rubs on the bare metal of the dash where it goes through because it was a Friday and the lazy employee didn't install the grommet? Is that not a direct short? Does that not blow the fuse?
In this case it's the same, but there is no fuse. In a car, it's catastrophic, it burns the harness and the car. In a mod, it blows the battery.
You are over thinking it, adding safeties. In the mech mod the only safety is between your ears!
Get it better now?

Nope. You would be sort of correct on a few odd mods, but for the Norm the Battery is At rest. Neither end is HOT(per say)
*Note - current actually flows Negative to Positive

Okay, as you might note, All normal 18650's(and other sizes) have carefully installed Wraps. These Wraps reach beyond the ends and create a Ledge shield for BOTH the positive and Negative end.

When a Battery is placed in a Tube mod, the Insulating Wrap makes contact with a Tube ledge or outer switch housing(normal positive up) The battery is in effect Floating.
The adjusted Top/Atomizer is attached and Makes contact with the Center(positive)post of the battery.<<<<<This is your live side - waiting for the switch to close.

****For this discussion - Figure Proper Atomizer pin height!****

Now, with a Properly fitted Battery and a Properly machined Switch pin to the right maximum diameter - The Battery CAN be placed either way with the same FUNCTIONAL result.(Coil heating)
However - Any Deviation that would cause the can of an inverted Battery to contact the Tube Housing WILL cause a Hard Short upon closing the switch.
*This cannot happen in a Positive UP configuration.


Lift Switch mods can suffer the same restrictions.

 

[tj99959]

I didn't see the ledge, so I may stand corrected.


But in a mechanical switch, it can still short out, no? Think of it this way, negative is always hot, with me? Then the battery is lifted to contact the pin. All it does is move the battery to make contact with the positive pin. Meaning the negative side is ALWAYS in connection with the ground, be it the body of the mod, a car body, anything. Actually, a car is a great example of this, as the entire car is negative contact.
What happens when a wire in a car gets chaffed and shorts out? Say the wire to the cig lighter rubs on the bare metal of the dash where it goes through because it was a Friday and the lazy employee didn't install the grommet? Is that not a direct short? Does that not blow the fuse?
In this case it's the same, but there is no fuse. In a car, it's catastrophic, it burns the harness and the car. In a mod, it blows the battery.
You are over thinking it, adding safeties. In the mech mod the only safety is between your ears!
Get it better now?

Wait now, FORD'S had a POSITIVE ground electrical system for years & years.

Trog even went as far as suggesting placing the battery positive end down in the Screwdriver.

The reality is that in a mechanical mod polarity makes no difference at all. It's ONLY a matter of how the mod is designed to accept a battery. (not a good idea to put a button top next to a bottom switch with a very short throw)

Also it looks to me like (*I've only looked at pictures of the mod) if a battery was put in upside down it would "auto fire" .... NOT be a dead short.

 

[zoiDman]

Everyone here Knows This. But I'll just post it for Anyone Reading this thread who might Not.

 

[crxess]

Everyone here Knows This. But I'll just post it for Anyone Reading this thread who might Not.

View attachment 550974

That is what We have been saying

 

[sawlight]

If a switch is damaged or compromised by foreign material of course you could
have a shorted condition. In that case it would just turn the circuit on. You still
have the coil (the circuit or load) to take into account.
If you had read my previous posts you would have noticed I already said in a open switch scenario
if there was a dead short upon inserting the battery backwards was most likely due to a torn
wrap.
Regards
mike

Nope. You would be sort of correct on a few odd mods, but for the Norm the Battery is At rest. Neither end is HOT(per say)
*Note - current actually flows Negative to Positive

Okay, as you might note, All normal 18650's(and other sizes) have carefully installed Wraps. These Wraps reach beyond the ends and create a Ledge shield for BOTH the positive and Negative end.

When a Battery is placed in a Tube mod, the Insulating Wrap makes contact with a Tube ledge or outer switch housing(normal positive up) The battery is in effect Floating.
The adjusted Top/Atomizer is attached and Makes contact with the Center(positive)post of the battery.<<<<<This is your live side - waiting for the switch to close.

****For this discussion - Figure Proper Atomizer pin height!****

Now, with a Properly fitted Battery and a Properly machined Switch pin to the right maximum diameter - The Battery CAN be placed either way with the same FUNCTIONAL result.(Coil heating)
However - Any Deviation that would cause the can of an inverted Battery to contact the Tube Housing WILL cause a Hard Short upon closing the switch.
*This cannot happen in a Positive UP configuration.


Lift Switch mods can suffer the same restrictions.

Wait now, FORD'S had a POSITIVE ground electrical system for years & years.

Trog even went as far as suggesting placing the battery positive end down in the Screwdriver.

The reality is that in a mechanical mod polarity makes no difference at all. It's ONLY a matter of how the mod is designed to accept a battery. (not a good idea to put a button top next to a bottom switch with a very short throw)

Also it looks to me like (*I've only looked at pictures of the mod) if a battery was put in upside down it would "auto fire" .... NOT be a dead short.

I'm too tired, too cranky and frankly just have too much stuff on my plate tonight to deal with much more of this.
Yes I know electrons flow negative to positive, Einstien discovered this when working on light bulbs.
As for the switch, you are still thinking analytically, it's either off, on, or broken. Not the case in this instant, it's a part of the mod itself. The switch is ALWAYS touching ground, on, off, otherwise, it's grounded! No two ways about it! Touch the neg terminal to the switch, it's grounded, no way around it. Put the neg side of the battery on the switch, now it's the pos side. So now the switch is hot, and the sides of the mod that are supposed to be neg, are pos., have a ground loop or interruption, it's a dead short in the system! Just like a car, the entire chassis is the ground, or supposed to be, take the pos terminal off the battery and hook it to the chassis, what happens?
I fail to see how this is so hard, for someone that is supposed to be so smart, to comprehend.
As for the old cars with pos ground, they got away from that as soon as anyone wanted to add anything electronic to it, it was too hard to isolate and keep from getting interference to it, be it gauges or radios.

 

[sawlight]

Everyone here Knows This. But I'll just post it for Anyone Reading this thread who might Not.

View attachment 550974

But that's not how a true switch works! Ask me, I'll argue all night because I can!