Rip Off?

[leaford]

i dont think this community should continue to pay whatever is asked from these shylocks without protest..im just registering my objection,because i believe the current prices are unfairly high,particularly for the american rebrands and worldwide premium brands.thats what i think.

like i said,if anyone doesnt agree,this is a friendly forum...lets debate it.

In the end it is all a personal judgement, and the ultimate protest is with your wallet.

leaford, could you be clearer here?

I think you are saying that the savings are different for those who buy in Europe and for those who purchase in the US.

And I'm not sure about the differences betw generic and independents sellers.

Exactly. UKers in particular can get a generic unit from an independant seller for a savings of $100 or more, in the US a generic from an independant seller only saves $20-40 versus a comparable brand. And with atomizers at $18 each, that savings gets eaten up fast. If we order from the UK, it's even worse.

Leaford, You now can buy a kiss starter box in the usa for $ 108.00.

See?

So I guess people who are buying njoys and jantys are paying a 100 + dollars for a product that cost a fraction of that to produce on the grounds that they are paying for the good customer service to return the atomizer that unquestionably will burn out eventually. I guess it would be worth it at the tenth atomizer they replace (my spare atomizers are 7 dollars, unit cost 40). The bottom line is, I would gladly pay 200 dollars for a device that is permanent, but there are none on the market.

Sorry, Jarrvis, I don't know what you have. I can't really comment, but at those prices I'm thinking it's from China, either e-cig.com or Heaven_gifts, or similar. I would be surprised if it performed as well as the Njoy, Pillbox, Meltrix models I'm comparing. I do know that if it's either of those, if a part is bad right out of the box, they require me to send back the bad part and wait for them to receive it before they send out the replacement. That's a deal breaker for me.

 

[Mr.Darcy]

This is all your fault Mr.Darcy

just kidding​

well the forums been boring for the last few days anyway...someone had to spice it up a little!

 

[NerdyCinderella]

So I guess people who are buying njoys and jantys are paying a 100 + dollars for a product that cost a fraction of that to produce on the grounds that they are paying for the good customer service to return the atomizer that unquestionably will burn out eventually. I guess it would be worth it at the tenth atomizer they replace (my spare atomizers are 7 dollars, unit cost 40). The bottom line is, I would gladly pay 200 dollars for a device that is permanent, but there are none on the market.

Hey Jarvis,
Want brand, model and seller are you getting your ecigs from?
TIA

 

[bishybob]

I agree that there are a lot of sites and companies out there trying to rip people off.

There are also a lot of sites doing the best with what they can get. People who are selling generics/branded products for a little more, but are really good about replacements, service, etc.

I think Janty is on the right track on a lot of aspects. I like that they can say "Well there were some problems with that batch, so we contacted the factory and left this/added that for the next batch".
At least they are trying to update their product, fix problems, and come out with new stuff. It seems like they really are trying to make a better product. Yes it's expensive... But I can understand this from what they put into it.
They also doing new things like the standard and extended Kissboxes to make things more affordable. They got rid of the USB cable on the standard and now have a product that is similar in price to other brands.
In the future my money's going to be on them.

So there are a few companies out there that seem on the right track... Lots that are just trying to get as much money as they can. Then the little guys doing the best with what they can get. I think you're e-smoking experience depends a lot on who you buy from and how you approach e-smoking. Whether you buy tons of spares at a really cheap price, and replace as you need. Or if you pay extra for a company that will back their product up and send replacements. I don't think either one is the correct/incorrect answer. It just depends on what works for you. Just try to find a company that is honest about what they're selling.

There needs to be some companies out there that can set new standards and innovate. Other companies need to be able to see how far they're falling behind and get their asses in gear. It just seems to me that too many companies are happy selling what they're selling and don't care if it changes.

All I can say for sure is I'm glad this forum is out there. Just like Karen said about putting away her NJoy. How many people out there would be lost in the world of e-smoking without this forum for support.

 

[Lady Python]

Ah well, I suppose I'll throw in my tuppenceworth.

One thing that's being forgotten is that e-cigs are comparatively new, and like all new things on the market tend to be expensive.

As a comparison, plasma screen TVs a couple of years ago were new technology and very expensive, with the cheapest at that time being £1200. Now you can pick up a large screen plasma for £500 or less.

When it comes to e-cigs, I can't really comment too much as I only have two. A relatively useless DSE101 (bought before I discovered this forum) and a generic Mini which, including P&P cost less than £25 and worked brilliantly until I dropped it and broke the battery

I think like all new things they are expensive at the moment but once they get more popular the prices will come down. Basically, supply and demand.

However, for what they are, many of them border price-wise on the ridiculous.

I rather like the blue Smuke (Gold) but the price and the price of the replacement cartridges puts me off buying it.

 

[trog100]

Hey guys don't derail the conversation!
​

Take it outside or create a Thread of your own, i.e., "Trog versus Leaford's World Views"

nerdy i have no desire at all to debate anything with leaford.. i also go out of my way not to provoke him.. i know the score.. we really do live on different planets.. but he keeps taking things i say generically as personal and going for me..

the last two threads i have participated in he has used my name and insulted me in a personal way..

this is not by fault.. i am also quite capable of insulting back.. but i am trying to play down the guys obvious dislike of by not provoking him..

leaford.. lets just accept that u dont like my type and i dont like your type.. i have no problem with this.. there are lots of people i dont like and there are lots of people that dont like me..

we cant change what is but u can at least learn tp stop trying to pick bloody fights with me..

i really dont wish to play the game..

trog

 

[sanneke]

Yes, I heard about the e-cig about a year ago.
I did some research, all I found was a generic e-cig from China, and they wanted $ 265.00!!!!!

It will get better all the time.

I rather spend a little more, and with good customer service broken parts will be replaced for free.

 

[NerdyCinderella]

well the forums been boring for the last few days anyway...someone had to spice it up a little!

I think you are right!

 

[leaford]

we cant change what is but u can at least learn tp stop trying to pick bloody fights with me..

i really dont wish to play the game..

trog

You are right. This was my fault. I apologize.

 

[trog100]

You are right. This was my fault. I apologize.

thanks.. matter dropped and over.. no problems..

trog

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Hey, there you go!

for leaford and trog!​

 

[trog100]

just to add.. nobody seems to like e-cig.com.. but once u start off with the premise that u dont need their aftersales service simply a product that does the job u require and is cost effective to replace they dont offer such a bad deal..

my favourite device so far is their e pipe.. my second favourite is my pillbox generic 901.. i think i will stick with using both.. the pipe produces more and better tasting smoke.. the 901 is smaller and discrete and produces enough smoke and work well.. .

sadly i think the pipe atomizer only has a very good smoke producng life of around two weeks.. the 901 generic perhaps a little longer..

cost for me in the UK.. the 901 generic from pillbox.. lets say one new starter kit plus spare atomizer each month for good results.... i could buy his classic carts and syringe them into the mini.... total cost about fifty quid or 100 dollars per month.. no hassle at all with service i dont plan on needing it..

my other option.. the e-cig pipe.. four atomizers every two months.. costing £40 or 80 dollars with shipping.. roughly forty dollars or £20 per month in atomizer consumables.. the pipe batteries being much larger seem to last well and dont cost much so i wont add them in..

e-cig pipe carts.. i drip the pipe so dont need the carts but at present they cant ship liquid.. 25 e-cig pipe carts come at under twenty dollars.. add another twenty dollars for shipping.. so a months supply (fifty ml) would cost me around forty dollars or £20.. the total would be around 80 dollars or £40 per month..

so thats is my long term 30 a day e smoking costs.. somewhere between 20 and 30 dollars per week all in.. useing either pillbox 901 gererics or e-cig.com pipes.. as i start off not needing service simply a bought in advance supply of spare parts that isnt an issue with me..

so how does this compare with other peoples options.. 20 to 30 dollars per week.. ????

my life expectancy figures for atomizers are based on them working pretty much like new not when they totally fail.. when they start to fall off i will bin them.. i need reliable consistently good smoke producing devices..

trog

ps.. i have done all my expensive experimenting.. i needed to do it to learn.. buts its now over..

ps.. in the future i will collect some of the failed pipe atomizers i have.. send a bunch back to e-cig.com and when how long it takes isnt an issue i will try and get them to send me some free ones by slow boat post.. .. they say they will.. he he..

 

[Nazareth]

One, I do not see how you think saving a few bucks on the starter kit, then buying replacement parts for a year is cheaper. At best, you're spreading the cost out, personally I think in a year you'll spend more.

Don't know if htis has been answered yet or not- haven't read down through yet- but we'd be saving because the price of everythign should be much much lower- including hte cartridges.

 

[leaford]

In my experience E-cig.com doesn't deliver a product that "does the job," ie, gives enough smoke with an easy enough draw. Certainly nothing I've gotten from them, or through a reseller of theirs like Crown7, has been as good as Mel's 901, or my Njoy, etc.

And to me, I'd rather pay $100 once than 50 quid every month, or even 40 quid every two. Hell, $150 would get me a guaranteed Njoy, and a second backup atomizer for when one breaks down. Use one, keep one in a drawer, and even if you have one constantly breaking down, the other will hold until the first's replacement gets to you. That leaves a lot left over to buy cartridges.

By your own numbers I feel like you've proven my point.

 

[trog100]

In my experience E-cig.com doesn't deliver a product that "does the job," ie, gives enough smoke with an easy enough draw. Certainly nothing I've gotten from them, or through a reseller of theirs like Crown7, has been as good as Mel's 901, or my Njoy, etc.

And to me, I'd rather pay $100 once than 50 quid every month, or even 40 quid every two. Hell, $150 would get me a guaranteed Njoy, and a second backup atomizer for when one breaks down. Use one, keep one in a drawer, and even if you have one constantly breaking down, the other will hold until the first's replacement gets to you. That leaves a lot left over to buy cartridges.

By your own numbers I feel like you've proven my point.

i look at things overall leaford.. three people have been testing six of the c-cig pipes over the past two months.. u will have to just take my word for it.. for an average of around two weeks.. when dripped they work superbly.. easy to draw thru.. very reliable operation.. extremely good battery life.. the best of all simply because of the large 960 milliamp hour battery..

okay.. an average (working as new) life span of two weeks.. not very good is it.. but at 20 to 30 dollars per week including all consumables is it bad.. i have always stated these things should be sold as disposable items.. i have simply pre-emptied the seller and buy them as such..

all i care about is how well the things work and the overall running costs.. the rest dosnt matter to me.. is 20 to 30 dollars per week bad.. ???

the pipes really need a seperate screw in cheap to replace atomizer.. but as they copy the original ruyan 350 dollar e pipe the whole pipe pretty much has to be replaced just because a crappy cost nothing peace of heater wire starts to lose its potency.. totally stupid.. but its the way they are made..

same with the carts.. they copy the expensive original looking ruyan design.. the pile of waste plastic left over is amazing when i syringe twenty five of them to get the 50 ml of liquid out.. fancy boxes.. seperate sealed tube for each atomizer.. another plastic tube inside the sealed tube.. then the atomizer itself complete with its own unneeded new mouth piece..

at ruyan prices it made sense.. they had to look expensive.. at e-cig.com prices it makes no sense at all.. quite clearly the packageing costs more than the liquid..

the whole lot is total waste..

at cost of less than 80 cents per 2 ml cart it makes five dollar njoy carts containing half the liquid out to be what they really are.. a total arm and a leg rip-off..

trog

ps.. the pipe atomizer which is pretty much the whole carved wooden pipe costs just under 15 dollars.. or the same as three enjoy carts.. if it only last two weeks who cares..

i would love to tell them how to make a sensible one but i dont suppose they would let me.. he he

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Thanks guys. That is the exact type of info I thought would be helpful in this thread.

Although I’ve been esmoking for 3 months I haven’t worked out the expenses yet or feel confident to recommend this or that just yet. One of these days I’ll get to it.

I just established a system for myself which requires 4 ecigs to use throughout the day because I’m a heavy smoker.

I’m still playing with the issues of using fresh cartridges, topping off with eliquids that I have purchased or have squeezed from used cartridges or have created on my own.
It takes a long time to experiment and getting familiar with all the details before one can provide a valid opinion.

Not to mention the price paid for the individual ecigs from which vendors including customer service and/or shipping and tax.

I appreciate the perspectives you have gained thru your experiences. Thank you.

 

[karenwest1961]

I'm not going to participate in any drama, and I stand by what I said in my own post.

What I wrote are just my thoughts and not directed at anyone. BUT, if it helps somebody else, a newbie, a lurker, then that would be very cool. I feel like I've done something.

I just want a damned decent e-cig and after a few broken parts, I've learned some very good lessons.

We all want that miracle e-cig, HOWEVER, there are problems with our little toy the way it stands now and we are all painfully aware of them.

So until the ultimate e-cig is finally invented, they're all disposable in my opinion. And if they're all disposable, this is how I, me, myself want it. I want it FAST, I want it NOW, I want it in perfect working order WHEN IT ARRIVES at my house (not a crapshoot), I want it at a REASONABLE price (not cheap and flimsy, and not over priced) and I want it with a smile. Not too much to ask. I work hard for my money.

How anybody else handles their purchases is their own business.

But I do agree on this...we are getting ripped off to some degree, but we're all addicted
to this one way or another. The nicotine, the hand to mouth or both. We're gonna buy it regardless...and all of these companies KNOW it.

After three months, I think I know what I like now and I know where to spend my money.

So if there are any lurkers and newbies reading, take this to heart. Read all of the reviews before you invest because this definitely ain't no cheap hobby.

But that's just me.

 

[sanneke]

I'm with you Karen, I know what I like, and that is where I'll spend my money also.

I'm not venturing out anymore and be disappointed and waste money.

 

[karenwest1961]

sanneke, I think we should save all of our dead atomizers and batteries and make some chunky-funky diva jewelry with them. Probably wouldn't feel so bad when they bite it.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

interesting thread ...

I agree, I do think a thread should be made specifically for Trog's and Leaford's debate, because both have great points, but I will leave that up to them to decide if they want to