Rip Off?

[TropicalBob]

Your dollars are way off, Trog. Call me whatever you like, but in general you get what you pay for in this world. Course, if you don't even WANT customer service, reliable products, etc., then follow your path to cheap e-smoking. It won't be mine.

It is certainly not elitist to have proper consumer expectations. Yours seem to consist of: Screw me, I expect failures, I'll bin the failures, and I'll order again. Your entire history of failed products and low expectations speak to that truth. You're buying a Ruyan now. Maybe you'll see the difference, maybe you want.

You're wrong about cars, but I'll not argue. If you really don't see and get a difference .. well .. nah, you won't get it. No sense arguing.

 

[karenwest1961]

dont take this as racial please moderator.. but the americans seem wierd people to me.. they seem to be happy to pay 200 dollars for a 1 dollar product as long as when it goes wrong the seller sends em another 1 dollar product with a smile on his face.. they seem completely unaware they are being ripped of right from the start..

Not all of us are weird, trog. Just some of us. Pat Robertson & Michael Jackson...well, we just didn't have any say so on those guys.

I consider myself mid-grade girl when it comes to these e-cigs (and most product purchases, basically). I'm not going to buy something super cheap, but I'm not going to fork out a big price for a name brand either. I want good quality at a reasonable price and in working condition. I WILL buy a name brand on sale if the price is there-about the cost of a generic, give or take a few bucks. If Bush's Baked Beans are 5 cents more than the store brand, then I'll get the Bush's because they taste better in my opinion. If Bush's is 50 cent more, then the dog can keep his recipe, I'm eating the cheap stuff.

When I bought my first e-cig, I knew nothing about this forum. I knew of a couple of sites that sold them. One being njoy and the other being e-cig.com. That's it. I chose the njoy because their site gave me more information on the product itself (which I knew very little about). There was a 30 day guarantee. If I didn't like it, I could send it back and get my money back. Economically it was cheaper for me to send the product to Arizona than it was to China. Another reason why I chose Njoy. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have bought the Njoy. If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone straight to Mel and bought several and stocked up on atomizers. I didn't know about Mel and Jane then.

So I'm not all that weird. I like a good bargain too. Guess what? I got some designer purses! Bought them at the thrift store for 75 cents each! Now THAT ROCKS!!!!

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

I hit the spectrum. Bought the top end in case it was streets ahead of the independents' stuff and some of it is. Bought heavily from the independents too, in case warranty expiry day hit all my jewellery at the same time. Happy with both decisions. Usage is split about 50/50 between the two. Cheerfully parting with yards of cash for paraphernalia I have no other earthly use for (digital multimeters, battery testers, ultrasonic cleaners, portable chemistry lab etc). Idly flicking through web pages in search of new devices that might pique my - ooh look! A blue one! Must dash...

 

[Kit]

I hit the spectrum. Bought the top end in case it was streets ahead of the independents' stuff and some of it is. Bought heavily from the independents too, in case warranty expiry day hit all my jewellery at the same time. Happy with both decisions. Usage is split about 50/50 between the two. Cheerfully parting with yards of cash for paraphernalia I have no other earthly use for (digital multimeters, battery testers, ultrasonic cleaners, portable chemistry lab etc). Idly flicking through web pages in search of new devices that might pique my - ooh look! A blue one! Must dash...

How the ultrasonic emp is it doing the job?

 

[trog100]

i saw my first e cig on a site called prezzy box..

Prezzybox.com: Gamucci Electronic Cigarette £49.95

one look at the "pretty young thing" tells me the market they are aiming at..

i mentioned it to my youngest son.. he laffed but looked on ebay and found pillbox.. we spoke to pillbox on the phone he said the 901 mini gave him the best "hit".. we ordered three kits and some carts..

was it luck or wisdom.. ???.. dunno but it certainly wasnt a belief in the good old "you get what you pay for" mantra.. in my world u get what u get.. what u pay is down to your own judgment..

ecomony.. mid rage.. delux.. only one is good value for money and it aint delux.. the people that sell things to us know what makes us tick.. they know who wants economy and who want delux.. and they know why.. he he

me i want delux but at the economy price.. mostly i manage to get it.. i do it by buying sold as seen mostly i cant aford the guarantee and dont want it..

trog

ps.. when i first saw em they were pen style now they are mini mini mini.. the silly little carts still cost the same as the bigger pen style ones thow.. a pretty good example of the old mantra a being wrong.. he he

 

[CaSHMeRe]

it will be interesting to see how many people went with Designer and how many people with with Generic (branding free) ...

sounds like a poll coming on ...

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

Hasn't landed yet, Kit. I expect it tomorrow. Even then it's first job is a bunch of fossilised paintbrushes I left in a tin of gloss...

 

[karenwest1961]

I think I get more vape for my money with the penstyle. I'm using those exclusively now. Two branded, 4 not. Still haven't caught up to Emp.

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

I think Leaford's setting that curve, Karen! I'm planning a splashout, though. Never smoked a pipe or a cigar in my life, but still...

 

[20ADAY]

Think this post has completley degenerated into a squabble

This the original point was that Trog, doesnt feel that the more expensive e-cigs are worth the cost as they are basically just branded generic items with an inflated price.. But some people think they are also have more R&D put into them and feel with the guarntees, in the long run the are a good deal and going the cheapest route is false economy...

I say each to there own.. but I would like to see a decent reliable products and reasonable prices and do feel some branded products are the emperors new cloths.

Also regarding a specific supplier, if you have had good dealings with a supplier then you are entitled to say there service is good and of course the opposite is true. Again its an each to their own scenario as they isnt enough bulk of feedback to fully establish if they are reliable or usless, all I have is a few peoples opionions.

BUT Cars are not all the SAME lol.... they can be status symbols, but they dont just all go from A-B the same, there is huge difference between them.. but they dont have to be expensive to be brilliant cars.. and e-cigs are probably the same

 

[trog100]

i feel obliged to answer the comment about my low expectations.. from the product itself i have very high expectation.. i want it to provide my nicotine needs in a reliable and consistent way.. i have have achieved this.. the word is "disposable".. i find it utterly amusing listening to someone talking about my low expectations who simply uses his own e cigs as placebos.. he admits they dont work and long for the day they do work.. come on bob.. be real.. who is it that has low expectations.. u have prety much admitted the current generation has failed u..

me i do whatever is needed to make it work.. even if it does mean buying no service cheap from china.. i have succeeded my friend u have failed..

in all truth the only way to reliable e smoking s disposable.. e cig prices make it all disposable there is no other real choice.. disposable is simply about the price nothing else..

trog


ps.. this thread is about two opposing philosophies.. its an argument i have gotten into many a time.. i had a friend who had a bike shop.. he bought 300 quid maketa power tools i bought cheap 30 quid chinese copies.. one thing i did learn is there is no changing sides.. its a "belief" thing.. he he

 

[Mr.Darcy]

the original point,if you read the first post,was that i felt that all ecigs,but in particular the premium brands,were overpriced for what we actually receive physically...and that IMO we are all being ripped off.

2 lithium batteries with leds,a chip,a tiny amount of wire,ceramic,metal and plastic...and thats it...and this can cost from $100-200...materials are cheap,theres nothing new here,its all existing technology,you dont have to be NASA to produce it,its obviously made cheaply in china...so what is the justification for it being so expensive at retail?

i partly put it down to the mystique of the product,the fact that it can "save" us from the cigarettes we all loved/hated,as one of the reasons we are prepared to fork out so much without blinking,for something which clearly isnt costing much to manufacture,and clearly isnt up to the job in its current form,premium or generic.

but yes,its only natural for the discussion to become a brands v generics debate,because those are our only options really.

 

[leaford]

dont take this as racial please moderator.. but the americans seem wierd people to me.. they seem to be happy to pay 200 dollars for a 1 dollar product as long as when it goes wrong the seller sends em another 1 dollar product with a smile on his face.. they seem completely unaware they are being ripped of right from the start..

us english (i wont take my own words as racial.. he he) seem to accept that they cant get or expect the same service when they only pay 3 dollars for the 1 dollar product in the first place... i have to put down my principles if i dont want to pay 200 dollars for the 1 dollar product...but one thing i will never do is let any bugger charge me 200 dollars for 1 dollar product in the first place no matter how much he kisses my ...

Trog, your numbers are way off, but you know that. 200 to 1 is an assinine exaggeration. You don't want to use real numbers because they argue against your position.

The real numbers are closer to 5 to one for Njoy, versus 3.5 to one for the UK independant resellers. Not counting shipping or customs for either. So the brands do NOT have that much higher profit margin than the resellers.

ANd again, by your own estimate, you expect to need a replacement every month. If I really need any of my brand name ones replaced every month, they will do so. For a year. For 5 years, for Sedansa.

$60-75 every month (your estimate, not mine), versus $100-200 for a year (or 5).

its the same with the freedom of speech concept.. the english see it as the right to answer their "betters" back.. the americans who have no concept what a "better" even is think it means they can say what they like without anyone saying they are talking rubbish.. he he

Au contraire, that's what freedom of speech is all about, just like I'm telling you that YOU are talking rubbish.

 

[leaford]

You're wrong about cars, but I'll not argue. If you really don't see and get a difference .. well .. nah, you won't get it. No sense arguing.

I hate arguing, Bob. With Trog or anyone else, contrary to appearances. I have anxiety conditions, and I'm going through a month's worth of meds in a week. So, I am trying to stick to the facts and not fight. I even ignored all his thinly veiled references in Tribalmaster's thread.

But the reason to argue is not to convince Trog, it's to keep any newbies reading about e-cigaettes for the first time from thinking Trog is right.

 

[TropicalBob]

Trog, I do not use e-cigs as placebos. The placebo effect is a very important part of e-smoking's appeal, however, to me and lots of others. It is not to be lightly dismissed as somehow trivial. My e-smoking devices go far beyond placebo, however.

You've been gone awhile. I have two pen style e-cigs from mycig.com, a Janty KISSBox with manual and automatic atomizer switches, the old Health mini that still does its thing, the e-pipe that came back to life as a manual unit, and the e-cigar, which survived a bath a few nights ago and is now back where it was.

I can assure you the myecig and Janty would bury you in vapor. They are superb -- and they back up their products with outstanding customer service and product guarantee.

They are far from placebos, so I don't want to hear from you again about how I e-smoke.

Yes, we have very different philosophies, I can see. The funny thing is, I'm a cheap SOB like you. My parents preached Great Depression to me, and I listened. I never waste money. I spend it wisely. And I learn to distinguish a quality product versus cheap junk.

You never seem to learn from your bad experiences, told in detail in other threads, and instead create your own idea of what we should all really expect and accept from e-devices.

Really? Keep buying and binning products never sold as disposable? I don't view that as hehe at all. I view that as foolish or worse.

You've managed to insult many on this board and now I, who have tried in the past to respond to you civilly, am a victim of your name-calling. No more. You can post the last word, because I'm through discussing your view of how things are. Talk to yourself in the space that follows.

 

[karenwest1961]

Leaford, we Americans are being perceived as stupid people who throw away money. We shouldn't be judged by the likes of Paris Hilton either, but we are.

I'm sorry Mr. Darcy. This has nothing to do with you or your thread. Thought I'd throw in my freedom of speech, no matter how "silly" it is, to get it off my chest before getting back to the topic of conversation. And I will get back to the topic of conversation in this post as to not be accused of raking up numbers just to receive Super member status. *sigh* That felt better.

As far as the subject of brands being overpriced. You are right. But I do see some prices coming down now that there are more players and more competitors cropping up everyday.

I have tried Njoy cartridges and I won't pay $25 for a box. The flavors are not that great and they're definitely not worth it in my opinion. Janty cartridge flavors are a MILLION percent better and it's $4.80 for a box. Now that Janty USA has opened, I think we here in the states are going to see some changes. Competition is good.

 

[leaford]

I hit the spectrum. Bought the top end in case it was streets ahead of the independents' stuff and some of it is. Bought heavily from the independents too, in case warranty expiry day hit all my jewellery at the same time. Happy with both decisions. Usage is split about 50/50 between the two. Cheerfully parting with yards of cash for paraphernalia I have no other earthly use for (digital multimeters, battery testers, ultrasonic cleaners, portable chemistry lab etc). Idly flicking through web pages in search of new devices that might pique my - ooh look! A blue one! Must dash...

See, that's where I'm at. I've bought about equally so far from the brands and the independants. And I've had good and bad experiences from both ends. There is room in the market for both. There has to be, because there will always be both kinds of consumers.

My argument isn't against the small independant sellers, it's against the insinuation that the brands are rip offs, that there's no value in a guarantee, etc.

 

[leaford]

i feel obliged to answer the comment about my low expectations.. from the product itself i have very high expectation.. i want it to provide my nicotine needs in a reliable and consistent way..

Your expectations are your own, and I am no going to say you are wrong if that's all you expect or want.

But for me, just meeting my nicotine intake needs, is VERY low expectations. I expect a lot more from mine. I expect them to be easy and reliable to use. I expect to be able to draw lightly from it and get a good hit. I expect it to look good, since i'll be looking at it a couple hundred times a day. I expect to see a satisfying cloud of "smoke" when I exhale. And I expect it to be guaranteed, and the guarantee to be honored without making me jump through hoops.

 

[leaford]

the original point,if you read the first post,was that i felt that all ecigs,but in particular the premium brands,were overpriced for what we actually receive physically...and that IMO we are all being ripped off.

2 lithium batteries with leds,a chip,a tiny amount of wire,ceramic,metal and plastic...and thats it...and this can cost from $100-200...materials are cheap,theres nothing new here,its all existing technology,you dont have to be NASA to produce it,its obviously made cheaply in china...so what is the justification for it being so expensive at retail?

i partly put it down to the mystique of the product,the fact that it can "save" us from the cigarettes we all loved/hated,as one of the reasons we are prepared to fork out so much without blinking,for something which clearly isnt costing much to manufacture,and clearly isnt up to the job in its current form,premium or generic.

but yes,its only natural for the discussion to become a brands v generics debate,because those are our only options really.

Well, then blame the manufacturer, bnecause there is not the astronomical 200 to 1 markup by the retailers Trog likes to talk about. They may or may not cost a couple bucks to make, but they sure don't sell for a couple bucks, not even large volume wholesale.

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

I do see some prices coming down now that there are more players and more competitors cropping up everyday. .

Exactly right. NJOY carts have recently dropped 20%. Still about 10 bucks too high, but they'll get there. They can't last on device sales alone (Leaford's razor analogy is apt here).

I have tried Njoy cartridges and I won't pay $25 for a box. The flavors are not that great and they're definitely not worth it in my opinion.

I keep saying how much I love NJOY's flavours and I did. But I never bought refills (dropped a hundred bucks on four packs - jeez I was green). Tried loads of different flavours since I ran out of NJOY and it's only my memory telling me they were great. For all I know they don't stand up any more.

Emp