Rip Off?

[Mr.Darcy]

Well, then blame the manufacturer, bnecause there is not the astronomical 200 to 1 markup by the retailers Trog likes to talk about. They may or may not cost a couple bucks to make, but they sure don't sell for a couple bucks, not even large volume wholesale.

yes i agree,theyre all too expensive,its just the premium and re-brands are even worse value for money...IMHO of course...

 

[karenwest1961]

Oh god, Emp. I nearly dropped a hundred when I thought njoy was my only choice!

 

[dnakr]

Karen, if you remember when I introduced you to e-cigs the only places available to buy from was e-cig.com, njoy and Crown7. We didn't have a lot to choose from.

Now more sellers are beginning to appear and like everyone has said - eventually those prices will come down.

 

[karenwest1961]

Karen, if you remember when I introduced you to e-cigs the only places available to buy from was e-cig.com, NJOY and Crown7. We didn't have a lot to choose from.

This is true, Rach. We didn't really have a choice. We just knew we wanted to try it.

 

[trog100]

the problem here leaford is that some guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on.. some guarantees are good.. but nothing comes free and they have to be payed for..

this perhaps hasnt happened in the states but in the UK it became popular to sell for an extra amount of money an extended guarantee on electronic goods or household goods.. ..

the product was offered at very competitive price.. once bought the salesman tried very hard indeed to sell the customer this extended guarantee.. it was hard trying to say no to it..

basically the shop made their profit on the extended guarantee.. the salesman got commission on selling them.. in short they were very poor value for moment but the hard sell techniques was used to sell them.. the five year guaranteed cost as much or more than the product itself..

after a while it became known this practise was bad news for the consumer and its kinda disappeared..

as u can probably guess i was one of the customers who tried hard to say no to this extra guarantee.. many fell for the sales pressure and payed for it.. those who did paid twice the price for goods they purchase in essence..

i am not against any guarantee.. but there is no disputing the fact they do not come free.. i simple like the choice of not having to pay for the guarantee if i so choose..

when the seller sets his price he allows for any come back.. this is all in his mark up.. when the return rate of the product is high so is the price one pays for the guarantee..

now the interesting question... who gets better value.. the guy who pays twice as much for the guarantee or the guy who pays less and chooses not to..

this come down to how much knowledge the consumer has about the product he is buying.. lets say the one year guarantee means paying twice as much for the product.. lets say the product has an average life of three years.. as a rule the sellor like the casino sets the odds well in his favour..

i do not play the casino.. i do play the no guarantee gamble thow for two reasons.. it is a gamble... and the odds are alway in my favour.. more in my favour than the average consumer here is why..

most consumer product faults are simple ones and i can fix myself.. two.. most solid sate electronci devices either work or they dont work.. any failures are right at the beginning.. there is no need for any long guarantee..

now back to e cigs.. i have useing my knowledge of the product life and failure rates have simply chosen not to pay for the guarantee i do not consider worth the paper its written on.. this is my choice i am not some kind of cheapskate idiot as some would like to think..

i have also in a cost effective way got reliable e smoking..

now as to this guarantee.. i think we all know the product dosnt quite come up to scratch.. it has problems.. is the extended guarantee worth anything.. in principle it is but in truth nobody as yet knows.. time will tell..

a guarantee isnt against my religion.. but i do have to think it will save me money and not cost me money.. doing it my way has served me well for many years.. but i do my research.. so far its cost me a bit this e cig research.. but i know over time this money will come back ten fold.. it aways has done and it always will..

with e cigs.. i am immune to product failure.. i discard them before they fail.. i have very good e smoking.. i have an overall cost i can live with.. but above all i am not in the slightest bit dependant on someone elses promise of service..

another example is i build my own computers.. there is no guarantee.. i could buy an inferior one and pay three times as much.. i choose not too..

the downside of my way.. it requires an investment in knowledge as opposed to money.. as i said earlier nothing comes free.. i choose my way cos i have the ability and dont have the money.. if i had money to waste i would do.. i havnt so i dont..

my buying iffy parts has been part of my investment in knowledge.. some have turned out good its all been suck it and see.. its also been fun playing the game.. now the game is over..

trog

ps.. jut to add leaford.. easy to draw.. consistent all day use.. pretty much all u need i have.. except the looking pretty thing i dont put much faith in.. i smoked roll ups not Sobranie BLack Russion.. my roll ups looked pretty ghastly.. he he he

 

[leaford]

Exactly right. NJOY carts have recently dropped 20%. Still about 10 bucks too high, but they'll get there. They can't last on device sales alone (Leaford's razor analogy is apt here).



I keep saying how much I love NJOY's flavours and I did. But I never bought refills (dropped a hundred bucks on four packs - jeez I was green). Tried loads of different flavours since I ran out of NJOY and it's only my memory telling me they were great. For all I know they don't stand up any more.

Emp

Yeah, I never bought their carts. Or very many of anyone's really. I got e-liquid with my first e-cig, and have always refilled carts. I buy a couple boxes here and there, amd I am often given carts with orders, or with replacements, but that's about it.

 

[trog100]

njoy liquid = 22.000 dollars per gallon.. what was that someone said aboiut my 200 dollars for the 1 dollar item being stupidly wrong.. errrr an assinine exaggeration were the words used..

trog

 

[leaford]

the problem here leaford is that some guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on.. some guarantees are good.. but nothing comes free and they have to be payed for..

See, you've said that over and over. I challenge you to say spoecifically WHOSE guarantee is worthless. Who is it that has renegged on their guarantee? Who is it who has folded up and left their customers high and dry? Name them and shame them. If you have information, please share.

But all you've done so far is make insinuations and accusations.

Taking Janty as an example, I've read posts where people didn't hear back as fast as they wanted. I've heard people frustrated that their replacement didn't work either. I've heard people who were frustrated and gave up, asking for a refund.

But I never read anyone say they were refused a replacement. I've never heard anyone say they didn't get their refund back. I have heard from people who had one bad part, and got a whole new set.

Same with Njoy.

The worst story, that guy who ordered from the Cyprus office, even he finally got his refund. So who is it whose guarantee isn't worth the paper its printed on? Exactly WHO?

i am not against any guarantee.. but there is no disputing the fact they do not come free.. i simple like the choice of not having to pay for the guarantee if i so choose..

If you're not against it why do you go around the board telling people guarantees are worthless? Why do you call them rip offs? Why do you insult buyers by calling them fools? You sure do act like you're against them.

now the interesting question... who gets better value.. the guy who pays twice as much for the guarantee or the guy who pays less and chooses not to..

Once again, it's not even twice as much. 100 is not twice as much as 70. And even if it is twice, if the first guy uses his guarantee twice, and the second guy buys two new units in the same time, the first guy got the better value hands down.

this come down to how much knowledge the consumer has about the product he is buying..

No, it comes down to math. $100 plus $0 for 2 replacements equals $100. $50 plus $100 for two replacements equals $150. Math.

now back to e cigs.. i have useing my knowledge of the product life and failure rates have simply chosen not to pay for the guarantee i do not consider worth the paper its written on.. this is my choice i am not some kind of cheapskate idiot as some would like to think..

Not cheap, cynical, paranoid, judgemental, but I never said cheap.

Once again, it's only your opinion they're worthless. ALL the evidence is that they actually honor their guarantees.

I have to point out your hypocracy. You boast over e-cig.com's promise to replace your parts if you buy cartridges, but Njoy's guarantee to replace bad parts WITHOUT you buying carts you sneer at.

now as to this guarantee.. i think we all know the product dosnt quite come up to scratch.. it has problems.. is the extended guarantee worth anything.. in principle it is but in truth nobody as yet knows.. time will tell..

Time IS telling. ALL the time, people are getting their guaranteed replacements. I know I've gotten mine.

ps.. jut to add leaford.. easy to draw.. consistent all day use.. pretty much all u need i have.. except the looking pretty thing i dont put much faith in.. i smoked roll ups not Sobranie BLack Russion.. my roll ups looked pretty ghastly.. he he he

Your 901, I believe you. Your e-cig.com, I have the e-cigarillo just like you, and it is none of those things.

 

[leaford]

njoy liquid = 22.000 dollars per gallon.. what was that someone said aboiut my 200 dollars for the 1 dollar item being stupidly wrong..

trog

Oh, bull****. We were both talking about the e-cigs, not the carts, and you damn well know it. Stop playing sophist games.

The price of the carts has NOTHING to do with starter kit costs or replacement costs, or guarantees. You can buy an Njoy and never drop $25 on their carts. I never did.

And besides, even THAT isn't 200 to one! More like 10 to one, when you consider the retailer's wholesale cost.

 

[trog100]

u are a fool leaford.. sorry but i am tired of your utter nonsense..

moderators ban me from the forum but its the way it will have to be.. i really cannot continue to be polite to this guy any more..

trog

 

[Jason]

Okay, I'm gonna throw my two cents in here because, well... that's what forums are for.

I'm with Trog when it comes to the math. I can get a replacement e-cigar from e-cig.com for $9. Obviously there's shipping to contend with but I have an advantage in that it's usually split between 3 or more people here at the office. I can get two replacement batteries for less than $5, and the shipping is free.

I'd really like to order a janty kissbox (and I'm close to doing so) but I don't for two reasons:
1. I'm clueless about the warranty and skittish about relying on it. Do they really offer a one year no questions asked replacement policy? Isn't it void if you don't use the Janty cartridges? Won't they get fed up with me asking for a new atomizer and new batteries every 3-4 weeks?
2. When parts do need replacing I'm high-and-dry for a week. Even if they're 100% committed to getting me new parts I figure there will be at least 12 times during the year when I'm waiting for something to get replaced.

I suppose that I could order two janty's so one's always working, but then I'm not spending $100 I'm spending $200.


This isn't meant to be antagonistic, it's meant to be dialog. I consider myself an open-minded person and I'm willing to consider any and all points of view on what I've just posted.

 

[McSocker]

wow c'mon guys... this argument has gone over-heated... it'll damage the atomizer!! everyone here is supporting this new lease of life called e-cigs, just celebrate it, put the guns down and stop killing each other... to me i feel honoured to be part of this unique small circle called e-smokers, and no matter which way we prefer to get our gadgets, everyone is on the same side... so chillax dudes!!

to each his own,
some people prefer the rustic cheap fish n chips at a small eating house, it tastes good enuff, and fills your tummy...
others prefer to have their fish n chips at that posh restaurant, more expensive for the same thing, taste might be better (definitely objective), has nice ambience, attentive service from the staff...
similar product, 2 different ways of getting to it and appreciating it, but neither is right/wrong/dumb/foolish/cheapskate/(add in whatever you want)...

it would be real sad if any one of you guys gave up on this forum, as newbies like myself have benefited greatly from the advices and experiences that trog,TB,leaford.... this forum is incomplete without any of you guys...

so....COME' ON!!!

 

[Kit]

DARCY your thread is jinxed....!
its the second night its kicked of big style!

 

[Mr.Darcy]

my intention when i started this thread,was to discuss peoples opinions on the way the actual manufacturers and retailers were pricing their products and why this should be the case,and what peoples thoughts were on the subject,because i,for one,think we are paying too much for all ecig related products...but i made the mistake of mentioning that i thought generics were relatively better value,and it kind of lost its way into another generics v brands battle...

i guess there isnt much people want to say on the actual original intended topic of the thread... which is fine,its a forum after all...im just a bit surprised.

i just felt it would be productive if enough of us agreed and voiced our concerns,and perhaps food for thought for any retailers or brands looking in-they do visit from time to time-when pricing their products...

perhaps i overestimated the strength of our unity,and collective power to influence anything,and maybe i thought more people were outraged by cost than actually are...i just thought from tiny acorns mighty oaks grow,and that it might benefit us all in some way to have a debate on the subject...

 

[Kit]

my intention when i started this thread,was to discuss peoples opinions on the way the actual manufacturers and retailers were pricing their products and why this should be the case,and what peoples thoughts were on the subject,because i,for one,think we are paying too much for all ecig related products...but i made the mistake of mentioning that i thought generics were relatively better value,and it kind of lost its way into another generics v brands battle...

I guess there isnt much people want to say on the actual original intended topic of the thread... Which is fine,its a forum after all...im just a bit surprised.

I just felt it would be productive if enough of us agreed and voiced our concerns,and perhaps food for thought for any retailers or brands looking in-they do visit from time to time-when pricing their products...

Perhaps i overestimated the strength of our unity,and collective power to influence anything,and maybe i thought more people were outraged by cost than actually are...i just thought from tiny acorns mighty oaks grow,and that it might benefit us all in some way to have a debate on the subject...

Here....! Here......!

 

[BigBuxNoWhammy]

I agree, e-cigs are a total ripoff. You save money buying cartridges/liquid instead of cigarettes yeah, but is it even worth it? I BARELY save money using these, and considering how unreliable they are, it's not even worth it.

I've been waiting almost 3 weeks for my replacement atomizer, and have been stuck here with nothing to smoke cause I cant smoke normal cigs anymore.


Not to mention these things cost over $100 for ONE atomizer that probably costs $2 to make.. it should come with like 5 replacements atleast in the starter kit

 

[vapors]

I agree that even generics are a rip offs. Right now china is charging too much and the resellers are charging too much to deal with customer's defective products. But maybe in time they will get cheaper or we will get a better product for the same amount of money. Only time will tell... Right now we are paying the price as I have heard on this board before..

 

[trog100]

darcy.. a few years ago on a photographic forum i tried to make the same point.. we were being ripped off for printer ink..

i was pretty much howled down.. which is why my first reply to u in this thread is 100% spot on.. there are too many happy to pay thru the nose for designer labels and names.. its the high price that gives the product value.. without the high price the product has no value.. in short when the price sets the value a rip off cannot happen..

i did warn what would happen and it has.. if the little boy really had not seen the kings new suit the mob would have ripped him to pieces..

these type people really do exist.. but no way on gods earth will they ever admit to being what they are.. they will use very argument they can to avoid admitting they have been ripped off..

this place has changed darcy.. the last guy saying what should i buy has gone off and bought a generic 901.. a month ago it would have been a janty or an enjoy.. some people are wising up if not all...

trog

 

[Jason]

Once the consumer base is large enough, I think you'll see standard market dynamics kick in. When the profit margin is large, suppliers are enticed to enter the market. More suppliers means more competition, tighter margins and more innovation.

Anyhow... that's what I remember from economics 101.