SE, NJoy vs. FDA -- Overflow thread

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Vocalek

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They are arguing (but not very convincingly, IMHO) that Judge Leon's decision to grant the injuncton was flawed. Julie or Yolanda can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I saw three elements to Judge Leon's decision: Law (actual wording of portions of the FDCA and tobacco Act laws), Case Law (Brown v. Williamson case), and Evidence presented so far (FDA's claim of harm to public health was unsupported by the evidence.)

So the Appeal briefs seem to be trying to prove that Judge Leon misinterpreted the law and the case law and shore up their argument that the products present a danger to public health. They repeated a lot of their earlier unsubstantiated fears (sold to minors, etc.), adding only the results of their lab testing as new evidence of harm that wasn't presented before.

I do hope the the Plaintiff's attorneys jump all over that one. njoy has two documents they can submit as evidence that the FDA's lab tests did not prove the products are dangerous: One is a critique of how the FDA conducted and reported the test. The other is a subsequent test on conducted by an FDA-approved lab that showed njoy vapor does not contain any substances that are carcinogenic, despite the fact that minute traces of four potential carcinogens (TSNAs) are in the liquid. Only one makes it into the vapor that one is not known to actually cause cancer.

I hope the attorneys throw in the fact that since the products are being used as substitutes for tobacco cigarettes, it would have been more appropriate for the FDA to conduct tests that compare the vapor to smoke. I'd love to see a judge order FDA to go conduct those tests.
 
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kristin

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In reading the Tobacco Harm Reduction 2010 ebook, a lot of these arguments suddenly become clear. Especially helpful is chapter #7: The implicit ethical claims made in anti-tobacco harm reduction rhetoric – a brief overview

If you care about this issue, you MUST read this book!

I don't know if it's been posted here yet?

It can be found here in PDF format: THR2010. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

I also have a Kindle conversion. If your want one, PM me. (I can't seem to post the format.)
 
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nojoyet

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In reading the Tobacco Harm Reduction 2010 ebook, a lot of these arguments suddenly become clear. Especially helpful is chapter #7: The implicit ethical claims made in anti-tobacco harm reduction rhetoric – a brief overview

If you care about this issue, you MUST read this book!

I don't know if it's been posted here yet?

It can be found here in PDF format: THR2010. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

I also have a Kindle conversion. If your want one, PM me. (I can't seem to post the format.)

Kristen you are so right. I've had a quick read of chapter 7 and they really do nail it.

I just love the phrase "informed autonomy". Hope I'm remembering that correctly. It's been a few hours and I should have written it down. If not you'll recognize what I mean when you read it.

Take Kristen's suggestion and at least read chapter 7.
 

rothenbj

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In reading the Tobacco Harm Reduction 2010 ebook, a lot of these arguments suddenly become clear. Especially helpful is chapter #7: The implicit ethical claims made in anti-tobacco harm reduction rhetoric – a brief overview

If you care about this issue, you MUST read this book!

I don't know if it's been posted here yet?

It can be found here in PDF format: THR2010. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

I also have a Kindle conversion. If your want one, PM me. (I can't seem to post the format.)

I've gotten through the first couple hundred pages. Fascinating stuff and quite disturbing. If not interested in the whole story, chapter 7 and Rodu's chapter are musts.

What bothers me is that all this information has been available and the anti-tobacco zealots refuse to acknowledge science. They have established control of tobacco with the FDA and the tobacco control board becomes comprised by zealots that are only concerned with stamping out tobacco use.

Put the anti-tobbs and the harm reduction advocates in a room, televise it and let them battle it out. At least the general public would see the science behind each side, rather than political rhetoric we get now.

Had I been aware of what I know now fifteen years ago, I would have smoked a lot less years. It's a shame, the powers that be in this country feel they have a better answer than I could come up with myself.
 

JustJulie

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Merci beau coup, pour sa, JustJulie.

My French is considerably rusty, since I haven't used it in many years, but if I remember correctly, at least in my circle of French Canadien Americans, it should be "Ne Pas", not "Pas".

If your French is rusty, mine is rusted to dust. My daughter, who speaks passable French, said that I probably should have used the full "ne pas" since I was writing, but that, yes, the "ne" is typically dropped in spoken French. So I guess my dropping of the "ne" was a "faux pas." :lol:
 
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