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SE still at it! :(

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by STILLSMOK9, Sep 26, 2009.

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    STILLSMOK9 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Yesterday I went to the mall to get a present for my dads birthday. As I walked thru, to my surprise, I noticed that the Smoking Everywhere kiosk was still there. It had been 6-7 months since i had visited this mall.

    Out of curiosity, I lingered around for a second to listen to what he was about to tell a prospect that asked him if this device could help him quit smoking. He looked at me and I pulled out my 510 and said this thing has kept me off analogs for 7 months. Morally, I felt even tho it would interfere with SE business I warned him that there is a potential FDA ban looming.


    "Oh do not listen to him, we were FDA approved about a month ago.

    l lost it then as I said "You are a liar"!!!!

    I gave the prospect the address for ECF and said decide for yourself about the trtuth...

  2. Symmetric

    Symmetric Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 25, 2009
    Dallas, GA, USA
    I also saw the SE kiosk in the mall yesterday and was going to see what they were telling folks, unfortunately the attendant was away so I couldn't hear the pitch...
  3. Bearwalk

    Bearwalk Full Member

    Sep 23, 2009
    Oregon U.S.A. baby!
    Wow good for you, I know people have to make a living, but damn, tha's just wrong! :/
  4. catwoman19

    catwoman19 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 16, 2009
  5. Dorian_Gray

    Dorian_Gray Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 7, 2009
    Stepford, Fla
    if you can fault SE.

    It might have been just one greedy little sucker not caring about the truth as long as he got his comission. Y'know...the entitlement generation?
  6. markarich159

    markarich159 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2009
    PA, USA
    Last Tuesday I was at the Lehigh Valley Mall in Whitehall, PA buying Glenn Beck's new book at the Barnes and Noble and I happened to pass by the SE Kiosk. This female attendant who could barely speak english was trying to sell this older women an outrageously expensive kit. I overheard her making the very "health claims" that got SE in trouble in the first place so I walked over, waited until the imbecile attendant was finished(the lady bought nothing just took an SE business card) and as the lady walked away from the kiosk I introduced myself , told her I had experience with vaping and suggested she look into THIS FORUM to get some true info about vaping. We kept waking and talking and were about 30 yards away from the kiosk when two mall security gaurds poked me in the back and accused me of "interrupting the SE business in the mall" . The lady who I was talking to defended me and told them I did no such thing as she never had any intention of buying anything from SE in the 1st place. The security gaurds(who looked like they couldn't have stopped an 80 yr old person in a wheelchair) just gave me this ignorant look and walked away. So let me get this straight, I as a cash paying consumer, minding my own business in a mall , am not allowed to give consumer advice to another shopper??? As the security gaurds walked away I asked them if they had any knowledge of the current lawsuit in Federal court, and, of course, they denied it. I also asked if I would have done the same thing(offered consumer advice to another shopper) over a red sweater someone was mulling over in Macy's would they have done the same thing, or do they just protect SE's sales. The security gaurds were not really at fault, they were apparently just doing thier perceived jobs. But for the SE attendent to actually call the mall security becuz she couldn't close a sale and then blame it on another mall shopper, who just purchased items at another mall store(I had a Barnes and Noble bag in my hand the whole time). I'm still thinking about contacting LV Mall management about the incident.
  7. HaploVoss

    HaploVoss Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 13, 2009
    Rogersville, MO - USA
    I would... I'm sick to death of hearing about these horrific SE Kiosk incidents. I've gotten to the point where I consider the local guy here in Springfield, MO a friend. He runs a straight business, doesn't tell any tall tales about his products, and he stands behind them if something goes wrong. It is really frustrating to hear all of these terrible stories when the guy down the road from me at the mall is a really good guy. These kinds of stories are just incredible. I hope that something does give as far as this type of thing goes because it is not only bad for the decent guys selling at kiosks - it's bad for e-cigs in general!!

    Take care,
    - Hap
  8. Backslash

    Backslash Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2009
    Louisville, KY USA
    They've begun advertising on syndicated talk radio as well. 8-o
  9. Kurt

    Kurt Quantum Vapyre ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2009
    I know the opinion here is generally that SE became greedy and started making medical claims to make more $. But I want to through out another thought...and people can accuse me of paranoia...remember, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean people AREN'T out to get you! :cool:

    Given now that SE is in court over their medical statements, which are clearly going to push the FDA to kill not just their business but the whole cottage industry, and they are continuing to make the same statements, which could be controlled easily from the top down, suppose the unthinkable. Suppose that SE is being paid off big to be the agent provocateur and are purposely making these statements because they have been bought off to destroy the whole industry. BP/BT certainly has the $ to do this, and the motive. Someone please give me compelling evidence that this is a case of stupidity and making stupid claims to make money, and not a charade by the top dogs at SE to get out now paid off big, and pull the rest of the industry down with them. These things can and do happen all the time.

    The next thought is scarier still, which is why I am stocking up now, regardless of the end result of this law suit. I give a real example of what I am thinking of: the case of tryptophan.

    Tryptophan is a natural amino acid, and was commercially available back in the 80s. It is the precursor of seretonin, that so called "happy chemical" in the brain. Taking tryptophan was like taking a mild, natural sleep tonic that made you feel more relaxed and happier. Prozac works by blocking the reuptake of seretonin, thus keeping brain levels unnaturally high.

    In 1988, a lot of tryptophan from Japan was tainted with something that made people very sick or dead. The tryptophan in of itself was fine, but there were other things present. It was stated it was from pure QC at the plant.

    The FDA immediately banned the sale of all tryptophan in the US, regardless of the source. It is just now possible to buy tryptophan again, more than 20 years later. Imagine, a simple natural amino acid!!

    A just weeks after the ban in '88, Eli Lilly released the first US-based seretonergic anti-depressant, Prozac. And the rest is history.

    Turns out information came out later that the tryptophan had been purposefully tainted with pharma toxic waste material, in what is likely to have been a BP sabotage to make way for the mega-blockbuster prozac.

    How hard would it be for someone paid off by BP or BT to infiltrate one of these liquid companies and poison a batch, kill a few people, and give the excuse to the FDA to make these things criminal to get, sell, have, use?

    How is your security, e-juice companies? How many people do you have in contact with the liquid? perhaps these are the musings of a paranoiac, but again, these things can and do happen all the time. Higher demand requires hiring more employees. You are providing a valuable service that is in direct threat to huge death-dealing money. Ruthless is an understatement with respect to these reptiles in BP, BT and gov't. Please be careful and smart. We are counting on you!!

  10. Pumaman

    Pumaman Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 5, 2009
    Is SE a class act? No. Do they mislead? Yes. Is their product crap? Seems so. BUT, SOMEONE is going to have to spend bushels of money fighting and suing the FDA, so lets not do anything to shut them down just yet...
  11. HaploVoss

    HaploVoss Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 13, 2009
    Rogersville, MO - USA
    I've never heard a SE ad on radio - but I hear TONS of ads for Smoking *Anywhere* and now more lately something called Smoke Assasin... there are several companies that try to tride on SE which complicates the matter further. :\

    I just got back a little while ago from shooting the breeze w/ Andrew @ the mall. He's pretty peeved over all this just as much as anyone else. I also watched him sell 2 units while I was there and he is even warning people about the current FDA situation, but even with the warning he just takes the time to do a proper demo and gives extras with his sales I guess.

    He tossed me an extra atty and a box of chocolate carts he had left over hiding away for when the wife and I stopped in next. (She loves the choco-carts)

    So it doesn't matter where you go there will always be buttheads trying to make as fast a buck as possible with no thought to their customers, but this guy sure is not one of them, so I can't imagine that ALL of the SE kiosks are all rip off schemes either.

    My .02
    - Hap
  12. Data4

    Data4 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2009
    Tacoma, WA


    Not so quick to agree. Is the price crap? Oh, absolutely. However, the product itself is pretty good, actually. In my case, it's the GoldOne 3.0, which is known generically as a RN4081. I bought mine in April, and so far, it's outlasted a DSE901 in the form of 3 batteries, 4 atomizers, and 1 USB passthrough. I treated the products exactly the same, but the only thing I've got left of the 901 is one atomizer and the charger. Meanwhile, my SE cig is performing flawlessly and is an awesome dripper. In the time I've had it, I've only had to replace the atomizer once and I did so through the warranty, so it was free.

    I won't argue that SE's got some shady business practices, but of all the things I could complain about them, the product itself is the least of them. I'm sure others who cut their teeth on e-cigs with SE would agree.

  13. Sun Vaporer

    Sun Vaporer Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2009
    SE products are on par performance wise with any other Commercal e-cig. As for the price---way out of line.

  14. pcore

    pcore Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 28, 2009
    Nebraska, USA
    @Kurt - Holy God. I read your post and have been reading up on that chain of events. Unbelievable in a sense, but totally in line with everything else we know about the FDA already. Apparently in a report, they stated that they wanted to "ensure that the existence of dietary supplements on the market does not act as a disincentive for drug development" WHAT THE?!?!? Does that seem completely insane to anyone else?
  15. Kurt

    Kurt Quantum Vapyre ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2009
    Pcore, exactly. People do not understand how evil these corporations are. The population in the US has in general never heard of Codex Alimentarius in the EU. There are some great videos on line. Our right to even use vitamins is under threat! It is becoming clear to me that soon it will be illegal to be healthy without the use of BP drugs. Health does not generate profit.

    And as long as the idiot masses keep telling me it could never happen here, they will get away with it. You do not have to convince the intelligent if you are going to do something evil, like start a war for no reason. You only have to convince the average, since they are the majority, and the dwindling level of our education system, especially in math and science is no accident. Stupid can be controlled. Smart is a threat. The ability to critically evaluate statements and actions of our ruling elite is a threat. If fear doesn't work with nonsensical ads and news stories, then I wouldn't put it past them to just off a bunch of us to send the rest vapers running scared. Or vitamin takers, or organic produce lovers, or non-GM lovers, or anything else that threatens the status quo of the moneyed in power.

    Ach!! I'm ranting! Blame it on the vapes...nothing to worry about here, move along, go back to sleep like good little worker sheep...

  16. Pumaman

    Pumaman Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 5, 2009
    My bad then, I was going by posts and reviews here and elsewhere rather then personal experience. My main point is someone has to foot the bill for the battle, might as well be them since they are the main target (along with Njoy) anyway.
  17. thewomenfolk

    thewomenfolk Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 6, 2009
    Colorado John 3:16
    I had NO CLUE the e-cigs were sold in kiosk's in Malls. I avoid Malls like the plague so haven't been shopping in one in a loooooooooong time. But the other day I went to one and saw the SE booth. I followed a lady away from the booth and told her to check out the Forum and better models of PV's.

    I turned around and talked for a while with the SE salesman and he was very ignorant about the other PV's. I had a 510 hanging from my neck and showed him my Janty Stick. I think he was blown away....he looked impressed. I told him to check them out. Are there really people who don't search the Net for such things after they've found one model? A week or so earlier, I had gotten an Npro at Smoker Friendly, went home and discovered my mistake and immediately got online. Found the Forum, hence the 510 and Janty Stick and the rest is history.
  18. Madness008

    Madness008 Senior Member

    Sep 27, 2009
    Austin, Tx
    What are the false medical claims they make?
  19. markarich159

    markarich159 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2009
    PA, USA
    By FDA regs and (as I've currently heard) a Federal District Court order ANY ecig maufacturer/disributor/seller cannot make any direct health claims(i.e. ecig's are safer/healthier then tobacco cigs/ecigs are a viable NRT therapy) because no FDA accepted U.S. Clinical Studies have been done to show this. Although, logically, most anybody would come to the conclusion that ecigs are safer, in the U.S.A. clinical evidence reviewed by the FDA is required by law before you can market a product with such health claims. This is the reason SE got in hot water in the 1st place, yet they continue to defy the FDA/Federal Court, which makes the situation/climate more tenuous for all ecig suppliers. Also, they can no longer claim that their ecig liquid is carcinogen free, as it is not. Again, much, much lower carcinogen content then tobacco cigs, but still not carcinogen free.
  20. Kurt

    Kurt Quantum Vapyre ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2009
    That they are an effective smoke-cessation device. Which they are, for sure, most probably the best available to date. But to make a commercial claim of this in their advertising makes them, in the view of the FDA, marketing in a medical drug for a medical condition, that is, tobacco addiction. And THAT is a big no no for a non-BP/BT/gov't group to make!

    Of course, that is only part of the BS we are being fed about this whole thing. It looks like it is about protecting BT/BP corporate interests. :nah:

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