Selecting the correct juice density.

[skeptah]

@Al and you're right..these questions do need answers and I'm curious to see how it plays out with the FDA

 

[Al Bundy]

@Al I agree with you about controlling nic intake. i started vaping to reduce avoid carcinogens and to ultimately taper off nic addiction.

Carcinogens..check.
nic addiction..unknown. I've lost track of how much nic I intake on a daily basis. Am I more addicted now than I was when I was back on analogs? Nope. I smoke analogs on weekends and noticed that I need/tolerate much less now. obviously this is subjective

That's all I'm trying to figure out as well. These issues are going to keep coming up until someone answers them is all I'm saying. I'm going to stay on the side of caution and use 8mg density myself, closest to the analog.

I have no doubt as the e-cigs grow in popularity, others moving from analog to e-cigs are going to ask these questions.

 

[Idahojo]

I think you are all burning far too many brain cells since you're not burning tobacco anymore. Here's my math. Hmmm. . .STRESS. . . vape for 2-3 min . . . = ZERO STRESS Works for me.

 

[Al Bundy]

@Al and you're right..these questions do need answers and I'm curious to see how it plays out with the FDA

I've done some statistical work for the Department of Education, in comparison these questions I'm asking now are going to be nothing compared to the scrutiny the FDA is going to rain upon e-cigs at some point down the road.

 

[Kate]

The maths is all over the forum for this, nobody has disagreed with the mg per day measurement. It's puff counts that are debatable.

According to you Al, if you're average, you'll get 120 puffs per ml.

In reality, according to 23 other people who have bothered to count, you'll probably get around double the dose you're expecting if you use that measurement.

The FDA are interested in facts I guess. Will they bother to measure puffs or will they work on mg per ml per day?

 

[skeptah]

sounds like unless there is a spec standard for atomizer/chambers, approval will be a longshot. They would probably have to start with defining a standard for the juice: density standards, viscosity, ingredients, etc. That seems like the easy part.

Once that standard is defined, the next step is the battery/atomizer/chamber/cartridge. This might be hard.

 

[Al Bundy]

The maths is all over the forum for this, nobody has disagreed with the mg per day measurement. It's puff counts that are debatable.

According to you Al, if you're average, you'll get 120 puffs per ml.

In reality, according to 23 other people who have bothered to count, you'll probably get around double the dose you're expecting if you use that measurement.

The FDA are interested in facts I guess. Will they bother to measure puffs or will they work on mg per ml per day?

They'll work on equivalent yields. As for the 23 other people, unless they precisely measured the amounts, controlled for equipment variables, then their puff / ml estimates are only relevant to their particular e-cig under those particular equipment controls.

 

[Al Bundy]

sounds like unless there is a spec standard for atomizer/chambers, approval will be a longshot. They would probably have to start with defining a standard for the juice: density standards, viscosity, ingredients, etc. That seems like the easy part.

Once that standard is defined, the next step is the battery/atomizer/chamber/cartridge. This might be hard.

It's going to happen anyway through regulation. I haven't been around e-cigs all that long, but the product quality is all over the place as is.

 

[skeptah]

now that I think of it..e-cig manufacturers need to do this leg work. unless the industry starts agreeing on standards, i dont think this is going to pass through the fda

 

[Kate]

So you're saying their results don't count because you don't think they're typical Al?

What equipment is needed to give 120 puffs per ml?

 

[Al Bundy]

So you're saying their results don't count because you don't think they're typical?

What equipment is needed to give 120 puffs per ml?

Yea see this only works when the other person understands what I'm trying to explain. If you're interested in learning about sampling methodology I can suggest a few books on the subject. Otherwise it's rather a moot point trying to defend your poll as meaning anything whatsoever.

 

[Kate]

Lol, Al you obviously don't know what you're talking about, thinking you do just makes you look daft.

I'll admit that I haven't got accurate figures but you are just ridiculous claiming that puff counts are meaningful after this discussion. You have no frame of reference except that you felt like saying it. That doesn't make me believe it's true.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Yea see this only works when the other person understands what I'm trying to explain. If you're interested in learning about sampling methodology I can suggest a few books on the subject. Otherwise it's rather a moot point trying to defend your poll as meaning anything whatsoever.

Bundy-- I have been reading this thread since it started, and all I have to say is that you either are so smart, that noone know what you are talking about, or in the alternative you are so ignorant that you think you know what you are talking about---One thing is for sure though, your inability to communicate is undisbutable-----Sun

 

[Al Bundy]

Bundy-- I have been reading this thread since it started, and all I have to say is that you either are so smart, that noone know what you are talking about, or in the alternative you are so ignorant that you think you know what you are talking about---One thing is for sure though, your inability to communicate is undisbutable-----Sun

What can I say, math is a foreign language to many.

 

[Al Bundy]

Lol, Al you obviously don't know what you're talking about, thinking you do just makes you look daft.

I'll admit that I haven't got accurate figures but you are just ridiculous claiming that puff counts are meaningful after this discussion. You have no frame of reference except that you felt like saying it. That doesn't make me believe it's true.

Kate, I don't deal in "belief", neither does math and science.

BTW, if you vape say 2 ml of 10 mg density juice, can you some how magically determine an average density per puff if you take n puffs?

 

[Kate]

Kate, I don't deal in "belief", neither does math and science.

Right, so where do you get the 12 puffs being equal figure from?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Kate, I don't deal in "belief", neither does math and science.

Bundy--I think it was many hours ago that Jaaxx put this whole thread into prespective--So please, give us a break and let the smoke clear out of this thread for awhile---Sun

 

[skeptah]

Perhaps we should turn this discussion into a more productive one. Is there any way we can help provide a framework for getting e-cig/juice vendors to agree on a set of standards to help speed this through FDA approval?

 

[Al Bundy]

Right, so where do you get the 12 puffs being equal figure from?

Answer my question above. As for the 12 puffs, the range I've read is between 12-15 puffs / .1 ml. I took the lower of the range. BTW, I did count how many puffs I make on my analog and 12 -15 seems to be close to whatever the true average is.

Now, if you take a similar number of pulls on the e-cig, based on the analog puffs, then the density required to be equivalent to 12 puffs is what I determined.

See what I'm saying? I'm basing everything off the ANALOG to determine an equivalent puff and juice density.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

If I were locked in an empty room for 24 hours with 2ml of 10mg liquid and a new e-cig atomizer...

I've got 20mg of nicotine available. No matter what I do, I can only possibly consume 20mg of nicotine in that 24 hours. Period.

Bundy--As Jaaxx stated here--you need to go off someplace and sharpen your pencial--Why do you not just tell us why Jaaxx's statment here is wrong?----Sun