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Seriously bummed..

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by Doctorvapes, Feb 28, 2018.

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  1. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
    I forget who wrote it but I found this a few years ago

    In case you were wondering about the difference between caffeine & nicotine:

    "Caffeine and nicotine are different in their actions as stimulants. Caffeine is a non selective methyl xanthine phosphodiesterase inhibitor that serves to increase intracellular cAMP (a second messenger). When cAMP is elevated, cells become more excitable. There are two primary second messenger molecules, cAMP and cGMP. cAMP is more prevalent in neurons that lead to behavioral (and brain) excitation (dopamine, norepinepherine, epinephrine, etc), although it is also found in monoamine neurons that are associated with behavioral depression and sleep (e.g., serotonin). So, the stimulant action one sees from caffeine is largely due to hyper-excitation in the excitatory neurons neurons. The reason caffeine causes sleeplessness is because it is acting on the same systems affected by amphetamine and ......., except with a much lesser overall effect.

    Nicotine is a nicotinic acetylcholine agonist. That is, it acts directly on acetylcholine nicotinic receptors where it mimics the effects of acetylcholine. The preponderance of nicotinic receptors are contained in the peripheral nervous system. It is nicotinic stimulation that causes contraction of striate muscles that allow for body movement. The nicotinic receptors on the blood vessels cause constriction. In the brain, nicotinic cholinergic receptors are involved in learning and memory, concentration, and many other processes. The stimulant effects one sees from nicotine is largely due to its net effect on brain systems. It is not a behavioral stimulant the way caffeine is. In fact, nicotine has both activating and sedating properties, but the activation is much less behavioral in nature. The reason that it doesn't interfere with sleep is because of that.

    I didn't intend to make this a pharmacology lesson."

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. optsmk

    optsmk Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 4, 2009
    Pleasanton, Ca.
    Oh noooooooooooooooo. Some unsubstantiated claims were made on the TV or Internet. And we all know that the TV and Internet never ever lie. I know what I'm gonna do.
     
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  3. DancingHeretik

    DancingHeretik Dancing in the Chaos Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 20, 2011
    San Antonio, TX
    Nowadays, it's not PC to hate anybody . . . . except smokers.

    So, we not only threaten to interfere with the revenue stream, but also with the place for people to aim their hate. And, the belief that smokers all deserve to die means they have no right to vape to save their own lives. Anything that even vaguely resembles smoking is oh so offensive to the haters.

    Glantz is believed because the haters don't want to know the truth. They want to inflame their own hatred. Any excuse will do, true or not.
     
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  4. Asbestos4004

    Asbestos4004 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 11, 2013
    Yet, here you still are.... Did a doctor actually tell you that vaping gave you arrhythmia?
     
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  5. WayfaringButterfly

    WayfaringButterfly Full Member

    Jan 20, 2018
    Nope, I don't buy it! My dad is successfully moving towards switching to vaping and I'm excited about the health benefits - yes, you heard that right, BENEFITS. Like not having TAR and thousands of CARCINOGENS being stuffed down his throat every hour and not having SMOKE DAMAGE to his sinuses, throat, and lungs! I don't care if he vapes for the rest of his life...there are foods out there, cleaning products, and other things that have just as much risk of hurting us as a nearly harmless vape. The "study" isn't very reliable IMO.
     
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  6. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Let us all remember the "great" cold "fusion/fission" I can never remember which, in which we were promised clean, reliable nuclear power that would yield "H20" as waste!!! Tons of excitement... Until it could not be replicated. Ooops. THAT is why repeatability MATTERS.

    Glantz saying something a million times doesn't count. Glantz can say "Dual using is 5 times more dangerous than smoking," a million times (I wish he would, he'd be just doing THAT until he died) and it does not count as scientific replication. Nor do the rest of his claims and "experiments" and I am using the term "experiment" very loosely in this context as he really isn't doing "experiments" he is aiming for an outcome, and THEN designing to "fit" that outcome.

    You aren't allowed to do THAT either, in real science. This is "junk" all the way around, no matter how you parse it.

    Don't let Glanz win. That's kind of my motto at the moment. Do NOT let Glantz stop you from vaping.

    And, to whoever doesn't want to vape, good for you. I mean that sincerely. I consider vaping harm reduction, not harm elimination at this point.

    I am not (at this time) capable of harm elimination, so I will take my harm REDUCTION with great JOY, because cigarettes were (literally) killing me. Had I kept smoking the way I did, I am fairly certain I would have died before I hit fifty. I have no ability to "moderate" with cigarettes, and even then, I doubt it would have done me much good.

    I like being a vaper, and if I ever feel I can be a non vaper, well, I will do that.... When *I* am ready, not when GLANTZ says I SHOULD.

    Anna
     
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  7. OlderNDirt

    OlderNDirt Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 8, 2014
    Nebraska
    I hope this is OK to add here:

    Just when you thought you had heard it all, I saw a report on this on my local station a couple nights ago. I couldn't find their story online, but this is the story, almost verbatim: Teens who use e-cigarettes exposed to toxic chemicals, study finds

    Short version, this was based on a study of just over 100 teens, supplying urine and saliva samples and testing them for "toxic chemicals." A Dr. John Spangler makes such claims as “acrolein is so toxic that it is used in chemical weapons” and “acrylonitrile is another chemical that’s found in this study… if you breath it in, it will irritate your lungs. It also is possibly related to brain cancer and breast cancer.” I have no idea of how they made the jump from "toxic chemicals" in urine and/or saliva samples to vapers vaping those chemicals? I actually believe I am using "cleaner" juice then that!

    Just a little research reveals the probable biases of the organizations funding this "study", participating physicians, and Dr. Spangler himself who has received at least one $1.6M grant and has opened “a tobacco-cessation clinic".

    Against my better judgement, my e-mail has been sent to said stations "news" director!
     
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  8. LMP

    LMP Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2010
    SLC Utah
    What is happening is that smokers and vapers are being dehumanized. I don't think this is necessarily intended, but that's what's happening. Back in WWII our government printed posters depicting Japanese soldiers eating American babies and they printed a lot of similar posters. They did that so it would be okay for us to hate and kill them.

    If you are a smokers or vaper you are a person it's perfectly acceptable to hate and there are a lot of zealots out there just looking for someone to hate.
     
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  9. medleypat

    medleypat Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2016
    Frankfort Indiana
    The way I look at vaping is there are people on here that have been vaping for around 10 years and you read on here how their health has improved that's what I look at. Some might say it's from stopping cigs not vaping but my take is if vaping was bad how are they getting better bad lungs aren't going to get better if you're doing something harmful to them.
     
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  10. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. LMP

    LMP Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2010
    SLC Utah
    Can anyone tell me how many people have died from vaping?
     
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  12. Asbestos4004

    Asbestos4004 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 11, 2013
    Vaping leads to eating babies...I knew it!:eek:
     
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  13. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I don't like teen studies either because teens are a lot of notorious liars. Who knows what else they were "ex......g" into their saliva and urine, because the kind of teen who would voluntarily participate in such a study is going to be the kind of teen that engages in high risk behaviors.....

    OR, receives some sort of compensation for the study, OR a "free" vape for the study etc. I'd love to see more of the methodology of that "study" but although I haven't read it, I DO know teens, and I do know the type of teen who would (illegally) vape, I WAS that kind of teen, and I can guarantee that I would begrudgingly "accept" my free vape from Glantz, but would have HATED him and MYSELF as I did it and certainly would have had ZERO motivation to tell him about any of my "other habits."

    This might as well be a study on how saliva and urine changes in teens with "high risk behaviors" not vaping. I really doubt Glantz recruited a bunch of tight laced, study oriented TEEN VAPERS, I guarantee his results were, in some part, polluted by confounding factors. Okay, I cant GUARANTEE it, but I can certainly "think it" and "think it very hard." LOL.

    Anna
     
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  14. LMP

    LMP Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2010
    SLC Utah
    Yeah, it just as absurd isn't it.
     
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  15. KatlandKat

    KatlandKat Senior Member ECF Veteran

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  16. Beamslider

    Beamslider Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 29, 2017
    San Francisco
    Anecdotal of course. But I used to get colds around once every month or so back when I smoked. I have not had even one cold in the 2 years since I stopped smoking.

    Don't know why exactly but I am happy not to have had one. Could be the VG/PG knocking off the viruses or could just be that the hands don't come in contact with the mouth or nasal area when vaping like they do with smoking. Either way anecdotal as it is, I think it has to do with not smoking.
     
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  17. Mowgli

    Mowgli Runs with scissors Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 25, 2013
    Taxachusetts
    5 years (in a couple of weeks) for me.

    When I smoked I got lung involvement every time I caught a headcold. That usually led to bronchitis that lasted from mid-winter until spring. IIRC 2+ years in a row is called chronic bronchitis. I caught numerous colds per year.

    I haven't had any form of cold since I switched to vaping. The 3 or 4 times that I actually had a bug try to take hold I had the chills for a few hours. It never even lasted more than that. I'd wrap up in a blanket and my immune system killed it within a few hours. I had a runny nose once that lasted overnight but it never went past plugged sinuses for a day. No lung involvement.
    Between PG's antimicrobial properties & my respiratory repair due to not inhaling smoke I'm cold-free & bronchitis-free for almost 5 years.
     
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  18. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    The first "cold" I caught vaping, I made a "preemptive" doctor's appointment like I always did.... I did not need it.... I was amazed....

    I haven't caught a cold since then, but it was still a pleasant amazement. I've been getting pneumonias that were just worse and worse, for probably the last 6 years I smoked. It was the "18 month, untreatable one," that got me vaping. My next doctor's appointment my doc sincerely wanted to give me the "pneumonia" vaccine.... .Only my insurance company said I was "too young" :lol::lol:. My doc was dismayed, but I told him we should just wait until I'm old enough (50) since if I continue to vape, I think I might get there. :D

    A simple cold is actually quite lovely! Some sniffles, no guilt about being lethargic, and then it just... goes away??? What madness is this? LOL.

    Anna
     
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  19. escapetovape

    escapetovape Senior Member

    Feb 24, 2018
    Welcome to the brave new world where they will attempt to remove words like “mods” and “cigs” out of the dictionary in the name of progressiveness and tolerance.
     
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  20. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 19, 2015
    Nevermind...
     
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