FDA Should I donate to help fund Dr. Michael Siegel's new study?

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DrMA

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In the long term, yes, of course we must. But in the short term, the law says what it says and the courts have spoken. Until such time as Congress intervenes to change the equation, we have to play the game by the rules that currently exist.

If Rosa Parks and Dr. King thought that way we would be living in a very different world today...

I am part of the generation that overturned communism in the Eastern block. Every molecule in my body is innately programmed to reject and willfully defy unjust rules and fight for freedom and justice. I will not suffer a bunch of corrupt ANTZ bar-stewards lie their way into banning vaping.
 

Jman8

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For present purposes, we don't have much of a choice. In the absence of new legislation that creates a more sensible regulatory scheme for this product class, we are locked into the paradigm of "e-cigs are tobacco products." Thus, we have no option but to demonstrate that they're the most non-hazardous tobacco products ever devised.

If we actually have no option, then we are relegated to playing on ANTZ turf where they control 'facts' about smoking and we get to imagine that we control facts about eCigs as a tobacco product. I predict it will be an uphill battle for the foreseeable future and 'vaping harms' or 'vaping kills' will be what we are asked to disprove in face of propaganda showing persons harmed by vaping or mere fact that as vapers die (at some point) then indeed vaping kills.

IMO, it would be wise to either attack 'facts' on smoking to discredit ANTZ at the core or every time vaping is compared to smoking (harms) just laugh as if there is no reasonable comparison to be made. There's a superficial comparison, for sure. But contrasting vaping from smoking is laughable. Even apart from ANTZ lies about smoking (harms). IMO, it's as laughable as comparing vaping to breathing, and thinking 'now I'm being reasonable.'

Does any eCig/PV have same/similar taste to smoking? (I would say clearly no)
Could a person age 6 and up tell the difference between any eCig device and a cigarette? (I would call this a no brainer)
Has anyone ever mistaken the smell from an eCig for a smoke?

Even on the superficial, it is a laughable comparison. But the act of vaping and smoking are similar, just as the act of breathing and smoking are similar.

IMO, the 'science' really ought to be as pertinent to the discussion as *other stuff.* In fact, smoking ought to be treated as *other stuff* and be consistent with what's actually being considered.
 

Nate760

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If Rosa Parks and Dr. King thought that way we would be living in a very different world today...

I am part of the generation that overturned communism in the Eastern block. Every molecule in my body is innately programmed to reject and willfully defy unjust rules and fight for freedom and justice. I will not suffer a bunch of corrupt ANTZ bar-stewards lie their way into banning vaping.

First, I think it's in rather poor taste to equate being black in the American south in the 1950s with being a THR advocate in the second decade of the 21st century. As far as I'm aware, none of us run the imminent risk of being imprisoned, lynched, mauled by police dogs, or assaulted with fire hoses.

Second, if we are using that comparison, then it's pertinent to note that people like Mrs. Parks and Dr. King, in spite of all they did to improve public awareness and raise the moral consciousness of the nation, were still powerless to change the letter of the law. Nine years elapsed between the Montgomery Bus Boycotts and the passage of the Civil Rights Act, and the latter only happened because a white racist (accidental) president, seeking to cloak himself in the mantle of his martyred predecessor, convinced a sufficient number of white racist congressmen (mostly through blackmail and intimidation) to vote for it.
 

DrMA

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Obviously, I disagree with your characterization of the argument. I also think it's incorrect. What's happening to us is not hypothetical risk, it's real demonization, marginalization, and segregation. The risk is that, if we bow our heads and remain silent, we will be forced back into indentured servitude to the tobacco companies and, eventually, into an early grave from their deadly combustible products.
 

SeniorBoy

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Obviously, I disagree with your characterization of the argument. I also think it's incorrect. What's happening to us is not hypothetical risk, it's real demonization, marginalization, and segregation. The risk is that, if we bow our heads and remain silent, we will be forced back into indentured servitude to the tobacco companies and, eventually, into an early grave from their deadly combustible products.

+1 and thank you. Might I respectfully add that I participated in the Civil Rights movement. Including but not limited to non violent civil disobedience and that means I went to jail. My direct participation in this teachable moment altered my views of "activism" for the rest of my life. I am and always will be diametrically opposed to your views and characterization of "history".

EDITED for clarity and returning to a more focused discussion PLEASE: Dr. S has yet another Blog post worthy of your consideration and titled New Research Suggests that Banning E-Cigarette Flavors Could Have Tragic Consequences

http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/10/new-research-suggests-that-banning-e.html
 
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