Sigelei 213 owners thread

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TechnoGeek

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Ingredients can't be that expensive, can they? I haven't delved into DIY so IDK.

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Depends on how many different ejuices you want to make, how many different flavors in each and the percentages... for example, I buy flavors in 10ml, 30ml, and 4oz. The 4oz option is about $12-$15, 10ml $2.25, 30ml $5.00 each,some brands only have 10ml, and 4oz options...If a recipe calls for anything higher than about 5 percent, 10ml option makes no sense for me as I make 120ML - 240ML batches of recipes I like. So, unless you restrict yourself to only making a couple of recipes, your initial investment is going to be a few hundred dollars. I think I vape about 15ml a day....sometimes more...The cost for me to make 30ml of ejuice is about a dollar depending on the recipe, less than $5.00 for 120ML... So, it pays for itself in no time, as opposed to paying retail for ejuice.... even comparing cheap $20 for 120ML ejuices....
 
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kenpocory

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Depends on how many different ejuices you want to make, how many different flavors in each and the percentages... for example, I buy flavors in 10ml, 30ml, and 4oz. The 4oz option is about $12-$15, 10ml $2.25, 30ml $5.00 each,some brands only have 10ml, and 4oz options...If a recipe calls for anything higher than about 5 percent, 10ml option makes no sense for me as I make 120ML - 240ML batches of recipes I like. So, unless you restrict yourself to only making a couple of recipes, your initial investment is going to be a few hundred dollars. I think I vape about 15ml a day....sometimes more...The cost for me to make 30ml of ejuice is about a dollar depending on the recipe, less than $5.00 for 120ML... So, it pays for itself in no time, as opposed to paying retail for ejuice.... even comparing cheap $20 for 120ML ejuices....
Yeah, my most expensive recipe costs me about $6.00 to make 100ML. But, I also paid more for the flavors because at the time I hadn't discovered Bull City and was buying directly from Capella. My next batch will be cheaper.
 
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TechnoGeek

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Depends on how many different ejuices you want to make, how many different flavors in each and the percentages... for example, I buy flavors in 10ml, 30ml, and 4oz. The 4oz option is about $12-$15, 10ml $2.25, 30ml $5.00 each,some brands only have 10ml, and 4oz options...If a recipe calls for anything higher than about 5 percent, 10ml option makes no sense for me as I make 120ML - 240ML batches of recipes I like. So, unless you restrict yourself to only making a couple of recipes, your initial investment is going to be a few hundred dollars. I think I vape about 15ml a day....sometimes more...The cost for me to make 30ml of ejuice is about a dollar depending on the recipe, less than $5.00 for 120ML... So, it pays for itself in no time, as opposed to paying retail for ejuice.... even comparing cheap $20 for 120ML ejuices....

The nicotine is the most expensive single item, the PG, and VG can be had onsale for about $15-$25 a gallon. 1 Liter of Nic 100MG is going to cost you at least $50, and that's the lowest, BUT it will last you a LONG time.....

Also, BUY a scale, much easier, and no need for a bunch of syringes, or pipettes... just a few for adding flavors from 4 oz bottles that don't have spouts....Best scale for DIY on Amazon is about $25....no auto-off, comes with ac wall adapter, and batteries, and weights to calibrate....
 

gofishtx

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Should of waited for the IPV6 instead of the 5, first looks, it is smaller and a lot better looking than the IPV5 IMO.
The IPV5 is no slouch, it's a nice device. I just got my second one and am waiting for the IPV6 and will probably get 2 of them as well. I haven't found any info of the differences between the new IPV400 and the IPV6 except I suspect the 400 may have the same chip as the IPV5 and there is supposedly a new YIHI chip in the 6. I wanted the Sig 213 but after reading of the issues and my past unfavorable experiences with Sigelei, I can't quite pull the trigger on one of these yet,
Can anyone say what chip Sigelei is using now on the 213 or the 213 Fuchai?
 
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TechnoGeek

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Specially considering Watts is the least important part of vaping. Which is why is silly how important its gotten. You need to watch your amperage draw, you have to watch your voltage draw, you have to watch your resistance and how it affects those. Wattage is just purely power usage and honestly should just be left to the your local power company.

I find your post interesting, as it was my understanding that variable wattage when Evolve released it, and everyone copied it, was a game changer! It's ALSO why you don't see may variable voltage devices anymore, they are all variable wattage.

So, if you only had variable voltage, you would always have to adjust your voltage, based on the resistance of the coils your using to get a consistent vape that you like. Same voltage, and lower resistance equals more power, and a hotter vape. BUT set your mod to 30 watts, and it's 30 watts regardless of resistance, and you therefore have the same consistent vape that you prefer regardless of resistance change.

Correct? That being the case, I don't understand your point....
 
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KayP

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According to Sigelei on a facebook post is't the same chip in both the Sigelei 213 and the Fuchai 213. It's supposed to be a NEW chip made by Suprimo, exclusively for Sigelei according to posts made by Suprimo. Suprimo is also the designer of the Sigelei 213 and one would assume the Fuchai 213....
A tad confusing but okay..

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TechnoGeek

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A tad confusing but okay..

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Yes, it is. The only difference between the two, is the method/math to do TCR, and and an aluminum body/casing as opposed to Carbon Fiber. I would hope, they also addressed the other issues people are having, screen corruption, sometimes not firing when the device is going to sleep....etc.. I also read about some of the memory positions not working(m4 and m5) but even if the first three worked, that would be fine.


Since my understanding is the Fuchai 213 does not support firmware updates either, you get what you get and their won't be any firmware updates available to fix any problems.... If Sigelei actually fixed everything, and people are happy with the Fuchai, I would get one, as it would be well worth the $40-$50....assuming everything works, and they use the industry standard TCR values. So I can use any metal I want, without depending on Sigelei to publish the values. I say that as today they have published all the commonly used metals, but if you wanted to use something like NiFe, your pretty much on your own. Granted, you could use the standard TCR value, and some funky inaccurate math(my opinion) to give you a starting point, and then play with it until you get it right. ( Edit -- Thinking about it, TFR would be be better and more accurate than TCR. So, assuming I can preset several memory positions with TFR values from SteamEngine, then I guess that would work as well, and better than TCR).

Question, I've read a lot of people can get the TCR to work with Sigelei's TCR numbers, BUT you must also use the temperature compensation feature in conjunction with the TCR value to get an approximate vape of other mods...

If this true for everyone, or perhaps this is just a result of the variations of the wire/metal? Also, do you have to compensate if you use the TFR values from steam engine, or do those numbers just work for the most part?

Also, in using TFR, are these memory positions independent of each other, ie I can set m1 for TFR of a specific metal and it will store my preferred pre-heat, wattage, temperature, etc in addition to the TFR values?

Thanks....
 
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KayP

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Yes, it is. The only difference between the two, is the method/math to do TCR, and an aluminum body/casing as opposed to Carbon Fiber. I would hope, they also addressed the other issues people are having, screen corruption, sometimes not firing when the device is going to sleep....etc..Since my understanding is the Fuchai 213 does not support firmware updates either, so you get what you get and their won't be any firmware updates available to fix any problems.... If Sigelei actually fixed everything, and people are happy with the Fuchai I would get one, as it would be worth the $40-$50....
I agree. I find it confusing as I had thought Suprimo was involved with the development and design (incl. chip) in the first place. The controversies continue, but oh well. I have been using my 213 heavily and have not been able to replicate my misfire woes (the 13 second misfire is still a fact; however, I am subconsciously avoiding it now). It's performing exceptionally well in power mode, and thus I have decided to keep it. Whilst I wish Sigelei's quality control had been better, it's still a lovely mod. Furthermore, I have been taught by others that they dislike hearing about the mod's issues, which I admit has played a small part in my decision (people still think it's a good mod, despite all its known issues). It's funny, they ask you for your opinion and then are ever ready to shut you down. I am one who will give a wholly honest opinion, both the pros and cons. I guess some do not appreciate this mindset. Oh well. As long as I'm truthful to myself, that is all that matters. If in the process it helps someone else, then all the better.

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GeorgeS

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    On my mod I still get 3 distinct results:
    1. Misfire
    2. Lame fire
    3. Decent hit as expected
    While it rarely misfires (-10%), the lame fire can be annoying (-+40%), with the good hits happening the majority of the time.

    While I rarely have builds that would use the preset wire types, I found that all three TC modes (preset,TCR,TFR) all benefit from a -+40-80 temperature offset to vape like my Dicodes, YiHi and Joytech mods. No big deal, it's set and forget.

    I actually felt good enough about the 213 to bring it camping with us this weekend. I've been switching between a Boxer 26650 outfitted with a Nautilus for in camper vaping and the 213 outfitted with a Supreme (0.12Ohm) for outdoors vaping. I was outside for most of the afternoon and was only able to draw down the 213 to 65%, (it is charging now).

    Outside of needing to keep the JFC nearly turned off to keep AFC juice seepage from happening, I'm happy with the setup.

    My next dual 18650 mod is the IPV6 as I have it on preorder.
     
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    TechnoGeek

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    On my mod I still get 3 distinct results:
    1. Misfire
    2. Lame fire
    3. Decent hit as expected
    While it rarely misfires (-10%), the lame fire can be annoying (-+40%), with the good hits happening the majority of the time.

    While I rarely have builds that would use the preset wire types, I found that all three TC modes (preset,TCR,TFR) all benefit from a -+40-80 temperature offset to vape like my Dicodes, YiHi and Joytech mods. No big deal, it's set and forget.

    Thank you, that is helpful. Do you use TFR at all? If yes, do the memory positions save everything, preheat, temperature, and wattage in addition to the TFR, or do all of those values have be be adjusted every time you switch between memory locations, or modes? It's NOT a huge deal, but curious.... On the DNA devices I have, I use it's profiles more coil specific, than metal specific... Meaning, yes it specifies the TCR or TFR(these can be adjusted on the fly from the device though), BUT I tweak the pre-heat to reduce the ramp up time, and on a DNA device today that value can only be changed through the escribe software, which is why I make the profiles more build specific, than metal/material specific.... Ie the TCR/TFR can be the same for two profiles, BUT one has 100 watts of preheat for 1.5 seconds to heat up a set of SS316L fused claptons, the other is EXACTLY the same TCR/TFR but no preheat as it's using standard SS316L spaced coils for TC....
     

    GeorgeS

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    I'm currently exclusively using the TFR settings. All 5 memories are able to store a set of values taken directly from SteamEngine.

    As far as I know the curve is ALL they store. If switching tanks/wire types just select the appropriate memory, press + and - to get into the coil resistance menu, select read resistance and your done.

    Most of my builds are fairly similar requiring the same (25w for 0.05 Sec) Preheat and I vape at about the same temperature most of the time. A little higher at times for more vapor and more throat hit, a bit less for the inverse.

    The TFR settings work fairly well with a offset. I have: Invar36, SS430, NiFe30, NiFe48 and NiFe70 programmed in. (I'm vaping in #5 right now - NiFe70)
     
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    Topweasel

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    I find your post interesting, as it was my understanding that variable wattage when Evolve released it, and everyone copied it, was a game changer! It's ALSO why you don't see may variable voltage devices anymore, they are all variable wattage.

    So, if you only had variable voltage, you would always have to adjust your voltage, based on the resistance of the coils your using to get a consistent vape that you like. Same voltage, and lower resistance equals more power, and a hotter vape. BUT set your mod to 30 watts, and it's 30 watts regardless of resistance, and you therefore have the same consistent vape that you prefer regardless of resistance change.

    Correct? That being the case, I don't understand your point....

    Variable wattage is easy enough tool for everyone to use and its good for really pinpointing the vape you want. It's an easy number that you don't need numbers for. But it's taken away from the useful information and I have seen reviewers make the same mistake you have in terms of temp.

    On one coil going up and down on wattage will mean a hotter or colder vape. But if I am using a 1.8 ohm nautilus or a .9 cCell or a .4 Herk + coil. 40 watts means different things. It would be molten lava hot on the Nautilus hot and destroy the coil. The .9 cCell would be towards the upper limit of the coil, but in the end it's generally a cooler but drier vape. The Herk + .4 hasn't even really warmed up at that point and it means lag before its really vapeable and at full airflow its very very cool. In actuality for the most part from coil to coil its the voltage it's running at that determines the temp, along with wicking and air flow. Now the type of coil and the atty can change this rule of thumb but it pretty much seems to hold true. Now variable air flow changes this as well because some people like an easy draw and like to take big hits, that vape is going to be cooler than someone taking the same air flow and just doing a normal pull. Which is going to be cooler than someone taking the same setting, closing the air flow and taking a normal pull.

    But my other point is that Wattage gives you great small adjustments on your vaping experience from coil to coil. But it does nothing for safety. Most devices won't tell you what your amp draw is at all which is probably the most important for battery life and knowing if you are stressing your batteries. Your voltage of not only your hit but of the battery itself is another. I have a Sig TC150. I don't know if one of my batteries is sagging worse than another or if one is unbalanced. All I know is the voltage that I set when I set the wattage based on the resistance. In case of the sig 213 we have a live feed of three major systems, amperage drain, voltage usage, and current live battery voltage. To me those are way more important from a safety level then dropping one of them for a live feed of the actual wattage. Maybe this is the cost of selling it as a monster wattage device, people want to see it hit the 213 and they can't tell.

    I will say I don't know if the device can actually hit 213. I have a .27 build and have used HB6 and VTC5 batteries. Both seem legit. Now I expect to get a drain issue on the VTC5's though they should be able to hit 30a or more for the 1.7 seconds I tested with the preheat. But both that and the HB6's seem to not get past 24a which makes me think its lock is actually at 25a and not the 35a it's advertised. Which without the numbers to back it up seems more like a 150w device than a 213. Now like some of the other problems of this device, the F based TCR (which honestly I don't see it as a problem, just their lack of notification or guidelines until people complained as the problem). The screen garbled I haven't run into it and honestly my tendency has always been to "wake" the device up before going into menu's. The Sleep missfires just never fit within my vape habits, if I am doing a couple hits, I do them in semi quick interval's (less than 5 seconds in between hits) or it might be several minutes in between usages. Lame fires only happen to me when I am at below a 20% and its usually because of how high my preset is (120w 1.7 seconds). This makes me think that someone else experiencing it might seeing bad battery sag if they have that problem it stops hitting at 60%. Don't know the batteries that person was using but something doesn't seem right, like a counterfeit or a just bad batteries from a re-wrapper. If this doesn't hit 213 it doesn't really affect me. I have a coil that could hit that, but its not enjoyable. I doubt I have the lung capacity, draw capability, and atty with enough air flow to enjoy a 200w+ vape.

    Point being that while I wouldn't actually recommend it unless someone wants a device exactly like this that does what this guy does well and won't be impacted by as I put it quirks. Even if its a device that works well for me, that doesn't make it a good device. But I still might get another one and maybe a couple Fuchias later on. I don't think I want to get another side battery loading device again. But now I can wait out the IPV6 and see what that is like, or if Joytech ever takes car of the pin issues a cuboid (that is a problem I am likely to run into and that would destroy the device for me). But just for the battery management alone the 213 still might be my vapocolypse for day to day usage, though I did get a nice DNA200 device (coming in today), because this is definitely not the high quality trustworthy device I hoped it would be.
     

    TechnoGeek

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    Variable wattage is easy enough tool for everyone to use and its good for really pinpointing the vape you want. It's an easy number that you don't need numbers for. But it's taken away from the useful information and I have seen reviewers make the same mistake you have in terms of temp.

    On one coil going up and down on wattage will mean a hotter or colder vape. But if I am using a 1.8 ohm nautilus or a .9 cCell or a .4 Herk + coil. 40 watts means different things. It would be molten lava hot on the Nautilus hot and destroy the coil. The .9 cCell would be towards the upper limit of the coil, but in the end it's generally a cooler but drier vape. The Herk + .4 hasn't even really warmed up at that point and it means lag before its really vapeable and at full airflow its very very cool. In actuality for the most part from coil to coil its the voltage it's running at that determines the temp, along with wicking and air flow. Now the type of coil and the atty can change this rule of thumb but it pretty much seems to hold true. Now variable air flow changes this as well because some people like an easy draw and like to take big hits, that vape is going to be cooler than someone taking the same air flow and just doing a normal pull. Which is going to be cooler than someone taking the same setting, closing the air flow and taking a normal pull.

    But my other point is that Wattage gives you great small adjustments on your vaping experience from coil to coil. But it does nothing for safety. Most devices won't tell you what your amp draw is at all which is probably the most important for battery life and knowing if you are stressing your batteries. Your voltage of not only your hit but of the battery itself is another. I have a Sig TC150. I don't know if one of my batteries is sagging worse than another or if one is unbalanced. All I know is the voltage that I set when I set the wattage based on the resistance. In case of the sig 213 we have a live feed of three major systems, amperage drain, voltage usage, and current live battery voltage. To me those are way more important from a safety level then dropping one of them for a live feed of the actual wattage. Maybe this is the cost of selling it as a monster wattage device, people want to see it hit the 213 and they can't tell.

    I will say I don't know if the device can actually hit 213. I have a .27 build and have used HB6 and VTC5 batteries. Both seem legit. Now I expect to get a drain issue on the VTC5's though they should be able to hit 30a or more for the 1.7 seconds I tested with the preheat. But both that and the HB6's seem to not get past 24a which makes me think its lock is actually at 25a and not the 35a it's advertised. Which without the numbers to back it up seems more like a 150w device than a 213. Now like some of the other problems of this device, the F based TCR (which honestly I don't see it as a problem, just their lack of notification or guidelines until people complained as the problem). The screen garbled I haven't run into it and honestly my tendency has always been to "wake" the device up before going into menu's. The Sleep missfires just never fit within my vape habits, if I am doing a couple hits, I do them in semi quick interval's (less than 5 seconds in between hits) or it might be several minutes in between usages. Lame fires only happen to me when I am at below a 20% and its usually because of how high my preset is (120w 1.7 seconds). This makes me think that someone else experiencing it might seeing bad battery sag if they have that problem it stops hitting at 60%. Don't know the batteries that person was using but something doesn't seem right, like a counterfeit or a just bad batteries from a re-wrapper. If this doesn't hit 213 it doesn't really affect me. I have a coil that could hit that, but its not enjoyable. I doubt I have the lung capacity, draw capability, and atty with enough air flow to enjoy a 200w+ vape.

    Point being that while I wouldn't actually recommend it unless someone wants a device exactly like this that does what this guy does well and won't be impacted by as I put it quirks. Even if its a device that works well for me, that doesn't make it a good device. But I still might get another one and maybe a couple Fuchias later on. I don't think I want to get another side battery loading device again. But now I can wait out the IPV6 and see what that is like, or if Joytech ever takes car of the pin issues a cuboid (that is a problem I am likely to run into and that would destroy the device for me). But just for the battery management alone the 213 still might be my vapocolypse for day to day usage, though I did get a nice DNA200 device (coming in today), because this is definitely not the high quality trustworthy device I hoped it would be.


    I'm not sure, even in your comparison of coils/tanks...VV would do the same, and actually be MUCH worse...

    So to make things easy.... Let's assume we start with the

    1.8ohm coil...at 8.5volts, 4.72 amps, and 40.14 watts

    Ok, now the
    .9ohm at 8.5 volts(since we aren't changing this) 9.44amps, and 80.28 WATTS!!!!!

    Finally, hell on earth... (at least for me! I only ever vaped that high, ONCE! After I did a firmware update on the cuboid, and it set the default wattage to 200watts in TC mode!)

    .4ohm coil at 8.5 volts 21.25amps, 180.63 Watts!

    As far as Lag, and your reference to the Herk...You are talking more of MASS, than resistance! IE, the coil has more mass, and thus takes longer to achieve the desired effect. This is where preheat, and temperature control come in.....Still, VV does nothing....I THINK even in the case of the Nautilus 1.8ohm, it's more a case of mass than resistance. What gauge wire, what diameter coil, and the coils ability to dissipate heat, nothing to do with resistance directly. IE, 32 gauge, 6.5 wraps will be BLAZING HOT, BUT 30 Gauge 10 wrap no where near as hot! The resistance of both is EXACTLY the same.....1.8ohm....


    As far as most mods not displaying things like amps, not true. Some of the most popular(because they are cheap, and generally work well) are the Wismec, Joetech, and Eleaf) all the same basic chipset, and they all display LIVE Amps, resistance, voltage(sort of), etc...depending on the mode you are in, VW, as opposed to TC....., they do NOT really give very good information as to voltage left in batteries, BUT in VW mode, it does display the voltage required for the set wattage, and live amps.....

    I'd agree more, or better info on batteries would be a nice option.....

    BTW, thanks for all the great information about your Sigelei 213 how you use it, and your experiences, I appreciate your time to reply!

    I primarily vape in TC using either SS316L or SS304, generally either fused Claptons, or standard Claptons....so pre-heat in one form or another is required. I've found most devices can be made to emulate the functionality of pre-heat, so whether I'm using the Joyetech Cuboid, or a DNA200 I can get a very similar experience.

    Example, in TC mode on Cuboid, set Power to 85watts, Temperature to 420F, and it gets me about the same as the DNA 200. 85 watts is TOO much for 420F, but as soon as it hits 420F, TC kicks in. So, the effect is the same 85 watts heats the coil up faster to 420F, and then it's maintained using whatever wattage is required....On an Xcube II, you have Min, Soft, Normal, Hard, Max, (AND you can NOT make ANY settings for wattage in TC mode)....it's about the same effect as preheat, or setting an higher initial power for coils of higher mass to come up to the required vaping heat required.....
     
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    nelsonm64

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    I have had the 213 for a couple days now, I started with just wattage and that part is great. even the pre-heat works with only the odd screen glitch... only happens if when holding the buttons you let go of one by accident, make sense?

    today I tried SS 316 in TCR and predefined SS settings. both work fine. I used .00005 for TCR, vapes just as good as my dna200/yihi etc. and the preset 316 SS works great to. however, I had to use the "temp compensate" setting this to room temp "70F". after doing this, it's all good :) haven't tried TFR yet, not sure I will? sofar, i'm liking this mod.. it has it's quirks but, it's not a deal breaker for me.
     
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    kenpocory

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    Variable wattage is easy enough tool for everyone to use and its good for really pinpointing the vape you want. It's an easy number that you don't need numbers for. But it's taken away from the useful information and I have seen reviewers make the same mistake you have in terms of temp.
    And I think this is the reason why vw has been so prevalent since it was first introduced. Back in the mech mod/unregulated days it was extremely important that you know exactly what you're doing, and have a firm grasp on ohms law and how it all works. Now everyone can just dial in a number based on the heat they want, the device does all the "hard" work in the background, and they roll with it. If you do something wrong, odds are the device isn't going to blow up in your face, you'll just have an unpleasant vaping experience.

    Maybe this is a bad thing as far as knowledge goes, but much better from a safety standpoint. But, I still think it's important for everyone to understand what you're saying, because as we all know, vaping on anything, regulated devices included, is not guaranteed 100% safe.
     
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