Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[AndriaD]

Jeremy, keep up your dissertations. You are educating some of us that don't know sickum from come here and then there's me who can't spell sickum. Thats why I'm dizzy. Thats why I'll never own a Mechanical mod too.

I agree completely, without Jeremy's tutorials I would probably have already blown my face off. I don't really get a lot of it, but I can catch the high points: use high-drain batteries. use higher resistance for longer battery life. keep your stacked '350s together. I'll let others figure out the math, since I'm a math ......; at least by catching the high points, I *won't* blow my face off, or set the house on fire. I also agree about mechanicals; just not for me, I like being able to quickly and easily adjust my power setting.

And I'm just loving the stacked '350s!

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

You know, I was wondering: is there a specific forum for battery topics? I don't know if I've seen a forum specific to that, at ECF -- why not? There are some other battery/atomizer/resistance questions I'd like to get into at probably tedious length, but it would be off-topic for most other "topic specific" forums.

Andria

 

[fairmana]

I've been trying to gather more information on the web regarding how to calculate battery drain in a VV/VW device. I knew it was not as easy as just calculating the voltage/current/resistance on the atomizer side of the circuit since the buck/boost circuit along with the pulse width modulation make things a bit more complicated than just using Ohm's Law.

Anyway long story short, I came across a fantastic "battery drain" calculator, although it's more like an e-cig "virtual model". It's based on the fact that the "power" being used on the atomizer side should be pretty close to the "power" being drained from the battery (with voltage regulation losses also accounted for) which makes perfect sense.

Jeremy, I think you especially are really going to like this calculator.

First you have to specify if it's a "regulated" or "unregulated" mod and then it allows you to plug in the values you vape at (voltage/wattage level), along with the atomizer resistance, battery voltage, battery mAh capacity, C rating, etc. and calculates what your battery drain should be with those values. It even lets you reduce the battery voltage (simulates when the battery is drained to a lower voltage) and lets you see how the current draw from the battery increases to compensate. It even attempts to calculate how long you can vape with that battery at those settings (continuous or # of puffs). Since there will always be some power losses in the regulator circuit inside the device, you also need to select the "efficiency" of the device so it can add those losses to the calculation. Since I don't know what the efficiency of the Zmax V3 is, I just selected "90%" even though it could be a little more or less than that (90% is probably close enough).

Here's the link:
Battery drain | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

I also recommend you click on the "How it works" link at the lower left of the page which will open up a lower screen that explains a lot of the theory which many of you may find interesting.

EDIT: By the way, you'll probably eventually notice that there are a few other calculators available when you look at the top menu (Ohm's Law, Coil Wrapping, and e-Liquid mixing). I've run across other calculators like this, but this puts everything on one handy web page.

 

[AndriaD]

I've been trying to gather more information on the web regarding how to calculate battery drain in a VV/VW device. I knew it was not as easy as just calculating the voltage/current/resistance on the atomizer side of the circuit since the buck/boost circuit along with the pulse width modulation make things a bit more complicated than just using Ohm's Law.

Anyway long story short, I came across a fantastic "battery drain" calculator, although it's more like an e-cig "virtual model". It's based on the fact that the "power" being used on the atomizer side should be pretty close to the "power" being drained from the battery (with voltage regulation losses also accounted for) which makes perfect sense.

Jeremy, I think you especially are really going to like this calculator.

First you have to specify if it's a "regulated" or "unregulated" mod and then it allows you to plug in the values you vape at (voltage/wattage level), along with the atomizer resistance, battery voltage, battery mAh capacity, C rating, etc. and calculates what your battery drain should be with those values. It even lets you reduce the battery voltage (simulates when the battery is drained to a lower voltage) and lets you see how the current draw from the battery increases to compensate. It even attempts to calculate how long you can vape with that battery at those settings (continuous or # of puffs). Since there will always be some power losses in the regulator circuit inside the device, you also need to select the "efficiency" of the device so it can add those losses to the calculation. Since I don't know what the efficiency of the Zmax V3 is, I just selected "90%" even though it could be a little more or less than that (90% is probably close enough).

Here's the link:
Battery drain | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

I also recommend you click on the "How it works" link at the lower left of the page which will open up a lower screen that explains a lot of the theory which many of you may find interesting.

EDIT: By the way, you'll probably eventually notice that there are a few other calculators available when you look at the top menu (Ohm's Law, Coil Wrapping, and e-Liquid mixing). I've run across other calculators like this, but this puts everything on one handy web page.

The coil wrapping section is my holy writ, lately. I've glanced over other parts of it, but figuring out how many wraps I need with a given target resistance, given gauge of wire, and given diameter to wrap it on, that's absolutely priceless.

Andria

 

[JeremyR]

Forgot about that site; never saw they had that calculator. Those guys are genius. "Well, now I don't have to calculate it myself.."

Thanks Fairmana. Much easier with a calculator. Lol I just went from 584.. to 1200 puffs on my battery now..

You were asking about modding the 510 for air. Here's a pic of mine. Ground it with a dremmel cutting wheel.

I want to get a much looser draw right now so I just drilled out the top cap. Nice 1/16 bit, 20v dewalt. Only got one hole completely done before the first bit broke, that stainless Is thick. (Cutting oil) I plan on 4 holes.

 

[olefolks]

Here is another neat little calculator that might be of some use:
Battery mAh & C Rating = amp Calculator

 

[fairmana]

Since we're on the subject, I just wanted to caution everyone when using many of the available online resources for determining safe battery limits or for researching batteries.

Many simplified calculators, spreadsheets, and charts use atomizer current and directly relate it to battery current (or people just assume that they are the same). I know I touched on this before, but it's important for us to understand that the current draw from the atomizer is not the same as the current draw from the battery in a regulated device. Many of these online resources can serve as a "ballpark estimate" of battery current, but the true current drain from the batteries is usually higher than shown. Additionally, battery current will increase as battery voltage decreases, so your batteries will actually be made to put out more current in order to compensate until it's time to change the battery. Just a few things to keep in mind.

 

[JeremyR]

Right on point fair, I also notice that the mods amp limit/maximum output decreases when the battery voltage decreases as well. Causing the reduction of power when battery starts to go below 3.6.

But that awesome steam engine calc can give you a good general/close comparison of different configurations

Edit to add
I was just over in the provape forum trying to help a brother out. When I saw a thread - dreaded board shift problem! - this was on a provari. ..

 

[AndriaD]

Right on point fair, I also notice that the mods amp limit/maximum output decreases when the battery voltage decreases as well. Causing the reduction of power when battery starts to go below 3.6.

But that awesome steam engine calc can give you a good general/close comparison of different configurations

Do you know if there are any "docs" for that particular page in the Steam Engine calc, the battery drain page? I was looking at it earlier, and I'm really not sure I can make heads or tails of it. Mainly, since I've discovered the *amazing* longevity of battery life when using stacked batteries, I try to use that method always -- I have 2 pairs of '350s. Sometimes I do still use the '650s, but since discovering the staying power of stacked '350s, the 2250 mAh doesn't seem like much anymore. But with the stacked batteries, I don't know what to enter for the different figures you can alter.

Edit to add
I was just over in the provape forum trying to help a brother out. When I saw a thread - dreaded board shift problem! - this was on a provari. ..

Andria

 

[fairmana]

Do you know if there are any "docs" for that particular page in the Steam Engine calc, the battery drain page? I was looking at it earlier, and I'm really not sure I can make heads or tails of it. Mainly, since I've discovered the *amazing* longevity of battery life when using stacked batteries, I try to use that method always -- I have 2 pairs of '350s. Sometimes I do still use the '650s, but since discovering the staying power of stacked '350s, the 2250 mAh doesn't seem like much anymore. But with the stacked batteries, I don't know what to enter for the different figures you can alter.

When you are using batteries in series, the individual ratings such as mAh and C will be the same as if it were just one battery. You aren't doubling your current capability when you stack because each battery can still only handle the same discharge rate. The advantage to stacking is that you double your voltage. So in the Steam Engine calculator, enter 2250 mAh, whatever the C rating is for a single 350 battery, and then input 8.2 volts (or whatever your total voltage is when you stack them). I haven't tried it, but that should hopefully give you an accurate calculation.

 

[AndriaD]

When you are using batteries in series, the individual ratings such as mAh and C will be the same as if it were just one battery. You aren't doubling your current capability when you stack because each battery can still only handle the same discharge rate. The advantage to stacking is that you double your voltage. So in the Steam Engine calculator, enter 2250 mAh, whatever the C rating is for a single 350 battery, and then input 8.2 volts (or whatever your total voltage is when you stack them). I haven't tried it, but that should hopefully give you an accurate calculation.

Hmm, maybe a light begins to dawn. Actually the '350s are 800 mAh, so it would stay the same? How do I find the C rating, is it written on the battery anywhere? It's an eFest 800 mAh 18350, and it says "high drain"... I have a set of v1 and a set of v2, which helps me keep them together as pairs.

I really am a dolt at things mathematical; I can *just about* handle basic algebra, and I'm a whiz at accounting and keeping books, but it seems that electrical concepts are all some type of equation, or parts of an equation, and at a certain point of equation-happy stuff, I just go blank, I swear it's like the little bookkeeper in my head just pulls down the screen "out to lunch." It feels like juggling to me; so many different things held at once in the mind, you're bound to drop something.

Andria

 

[JeremyR]

The mah & C rating determines the amp limit, those efest are 8 c , 6.4 amp limit. Nominal voltage is 7.4 stacked.

 

[AndriaD]

One thing I've been wondering, since I got the Kayfun... everyone keeps telling me that they work best with coils between 1 and 2 ohm, though some folks apparently do the sub-ohm thing with them too. Because of learning some of this about using higher resistance for longer battery life, I've been doing coils at 2Ω, and I'm wondering how that affects the battery life -- badly? Either way? I'm also wondering about using even higher ohm coils with the Kayfun, but I'd need to address that in one of the Kayfun threads, I guess, even though some of them will have no idea what I'm talking about, they're all "oooh, .8 ohms dude!" *sigh* The first one I did, i was aiming at 2 ohms but it turned out 2.1, and it was a little slow, but I didn't try so hard to get it all squished together; the 2 ohm coil I'm using now was well compressed, so it's quick enough. Anyway. Off topic I know, but running around to different threads and trying to fill in the info gap from other threads just to ask a question is such a pain. It's like playing Post Office, or something.

Andria

 

[fairmana]

With the Steam Engine calculator, once you've entered the mAh and C rating, you can play with different values of battery voltage to see what your battery current would be with different levels of battery charge. It's really interesting to see how much the battery current changes as a result.

For single 18650 or 18500 batteries, you could enter around 4.1 volts to simulate a freshly charged battery all the way down to about 3.2 to simulate a low charged battery.

For stacked 18350 batteries, you could enter around 8.2 volts to simulate 2 freshly charged batteries all the way down to about 6.4 volts to simulate 2 low charged batteries.

 

[fairmana]

I've been doing coils at 2Ω, and I'm wondering how that affects the battery life -- badly? Either way?

Andria, the higher the resistance of the coil, the less current that will be allowed to flow through it ("resists more current"), so your batteries will last longer. The lower the resistance, more current will flow, the lower the battery life.

EDIT: I'm thinking that as you increased your resistance, you'd eventually reach a point where it's too high to allow enough current to flow to heat the coil enough for a good vape. The maximum power setting of your Zmax would also be a limitation. For example, at the 6 volt limit with a 6 ohm atomizer, you'd only get 1 amp of current at 6 watts of power, which is a pretty "cool" vape. 3 ohms is probably about as high as you'd want to go to still allow you some leeway with your power settings.

 

[daheazle]

I am going to buy a zmax v5 and have some battery questions. Would you recommend flat or button top batteries? It seems either are fine from what I've read but would it make a difference when running two 350's?

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[JeremyR]

I am going to buy a zmax v5 and have some battery questions. Would you recommend flat or button top batteries? It seems either are fine from what I've read but would it make a difference when running two 350's?

Flat top batteries are better for stacking IMO, the button tops the negative side can get dented by the positive button from the pressure. Plus flats a little shorter which is nice cause your telescoped towards the max.

One thing I've been wondering, since I got the Kayfun... everyone keeps telling me that they work best with coils between 1 and 2 ohm, though some folks apparently do the sub-ohm thing with them too. Because of learning some of this about using higher resistance for longer battery life, I've been doing coils at 2Ω, and I'm wondering how that affects the battery life -- badly? Either way? I'm also wondering about using even higher ohm coils with the Kayfun, but I'd need to address that in one of the Kayfun threads, I guess, even though some of them will have no idea what I'm talking about, they're all "oooh, .8 ohms dude!" *sigh* The first one I did, i was aiming at 2 ohms but it turned out 2.1, and it was a little slow, but I didn't try so hard to get it all squished together; the 2 ohm coil I'm using now was well compressed, so it's quick enough. Anyway. Off topic I know, but running around to different threads and trying to fill in the info gap from other threads just to ask a question is such a pain. It's like playing Post Office, or something.

Andria

Andria they are using mechanicals that only run at 4.2v max 3.7v most the time. If they are not they should. What they are sayin if they say 1 ohm is 13 - 16w . You can achieve 13w with a 2.7 ohm coil if you want and extend the battery life. But you would need to use 32g. With 28g you just can't have much over 1.7 or it will heat slow unless you crank the wattage or voltage. Since your using stack you can now do this.

 

[yzer]

Some vendors will charge less for flat tops. Some APVs like Provari use only button top batteries because the reverse battery protection is accomplished mechanically. Flat tops will not touch the B+ contact in a Provari. Some mech mods need button tops to make the switch work. Sigelei Zmax uses either button or flat top. I prefer flat tops if they are cheaper.

 

[yzer]

Sigelei stainless steel flat top V5 is back in stock at Desert Vapes today for $46.95. They haven't restocked the V3 flat tops yet.

 

[AndriaD]

Andria they are using mechanicals that only run at 4.2v max 3.7v most the time. If they are not they should. What they are sayin if they say 1 ohm is 13 - 16w . You can achieve 13w with a 2.7 ohm coil if you want and extend the battery life. But you would need to use 32g. With 28g you just can't have much over 1.7 or it will heat slow unless you crank the wattage or voltage. Since your using stack you can now do this.

Ok... I forget that some don't have this marvelous variable wattage feature. So maybe I'll go back to doing 2.5ohm coils, those turned out well for me. I ***rarely*** vape over 8.5w anyway.

Although... since starting to do my own coils, I find that if I want a new one, I have to rip out a perfectly well-functioning one, instead of one of those factory jobs that come in the small tanks -- I didn't mind ripping those out, but my own good ones... hmmm.. I might stick with this 2 ohm coil for awhile; nothing wrong with it.

Thx!!!!
Andria