Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[JeremyR]

I've never seen any manufacturer state that either.

Even provari doesnt clearly state that their max wattage wasn't possible with Lower ohm coils. They have since increased the amp limit on provari but that only lends to running the single battery down even faster at low ohms and they don't even have the capability to stack batteries either. I used to go around with provari owners that thought they were getting 15w when it wasn't even possible .. I have some of those posts in my first blog - knowledge is power

I guess you could say its false advertising; but is is capable, they just don't state how it's capable.

2.5 amps with one battery and 4 amps with stacked 18350's would have made our lives a lot easier.

 

[yzer]

Remember that time has flown quickly in the development of APVs. The Zmax chip was developed by Yihiecigar, the same people who developed the higher powered SX series boards that currently compete with the DNA boards. Zmax is used by a number of manufacturers including Sigelei, Smok and Vamo. Each manufacturer will offer a custom take on Zmax firmware and other details. Back when the Zmax really began to take off in 2012 hardly anyone used more than 10W to power cartos, cartotanks or clearos. Then high powered coils entered the picture last year and the vaping landscape changed. Now the power game is entering the 100W region.

The Sigelei Zmax is ideal for anyone who wants to vape at 11W or less with a single battery and one of the smallest, most durable tube mods available. It is also a good choice if they want to vape up to the 15W region and don't mind using 2x18350. Keep in mind that groups like ECF took a stand on the potential dangers of using stacked ICR batteries in APVs and issued a serious warning about the practice which they never revised after safer chemistry IMR batteries became available. So, a stigma about stacking batteries still applies to the vaping world.

There are good suggestions about stacking batteries safely that include using matched new batteries, numbering the batteries and rotating their position in the APV with each use. There may be other good suggestions but I'm no specialist in stacking batts so I'll let others write on that.

When you look at the whole world of vaping then high powered vaping is done by a minority of users. However, high powered vaping is very popular on boards like ECF.

Myself, 6.5 to 7.0W with a cartotank is as good as it gets. Two years ago on ECF this was in the most popular vaping wattage range of 5-8W. 6-8W was not considered to be "low powered" vaping. When you look at all of the vapers using all of the devices everywhere this is probably still the most popular range. I saw clearos as a big step backward in vapor quality from cartotanks. I could easily run 10W watts on my cartotanks but don't like it. So vaping 15W really doesn't appeal to me at all.

The current generation of SX and DNA boards leave a void in the vaping world. They don't down regulate. So if you want to vape at a wattage that requires less than than the 4.2V available from a fully charged battery you are SOL with SX and DNA. Right now, that is.

I don't see vaping with 3.7V e-Go type devices or Zmax/Vamo/Provari VV or VV/VW 3-15W APVs disappearing anytime soon. For that matter, cigalikes are going to be around for a long time as well and if the FDA has any say about it, they will be the only choice two years from now.

 

[JeremyR]

The zmax is good for low or high wattage vapers!

It's been one of the best 40.00 I've spent in my vaping career. It's been able to grow with me. Started at 10w and it was fine. Then trying to push the 15w barrier I found I was over working it with one battery. Now with stacked batteries I'm able to go up to the 20-24w range. All with the same mod. I didn't have to spend 100.00 when the DNA 20 came out. Heck I wouldn't even want that unless I could stack batteries in it. I can only imagine how fast a DNA 20 or 30 battery runs down at those power levels.

I like to be able to vape at 20w all day with out having to change or charge the batteries at all!!

The zmax does this and man I tell you its peace of mind.

I Don't have to run around charging/ changing 18650s all day.

 

[Juvecoop]

The zmax is good for low or high wattage vapers!

It's been one of the best 40.00 I've spent in my vaping career. It's been able to grow with me. Started at 10w and it was fine. Then trying to push the 15w barrier I found I was over working it with one battery. Now with stacked batteries I'm able to go up to the 20-24w range. All with the same mod. I didn't have to spend 100.00 when the DNA 20 came out. Heck I wouldn't even want that unless I could stack batteries in it. I can only imagine how fast a DNA 20 or 30 battery runs down at those power levels.

I like to be able to vape at 20w all day with out having to change or charge the batteries at all!!

The zmax does this and man I tell you its peace of mind.

I Don't have to run around charging/ changing 18650s all day.

When stacking does the Zmax show over 15 watts or was this discovered through personal testing on other devices. Thanks for the outstanding explanation a few pages back regarding stacking. I'm guessing that's the best way to go and sigelei and other manufactures should be disclosing how to reach its full potential and better quality of battery life. But the again I guess that's why we have these forums for. Thanks again and to Yzer as well

 

[Juvecoop]

Remember that time has flown quickly in the development of APVs. The Zmax chip was developed by Yihiecigar, the same people who developed the higher powered SX series boards that currently compete with the DNA boards. Zmax is used by a number of manufacturers including Sigelei, Smok and Vamo. Each manufacturer will offer a custom take on Zmax firmware and other details. Back when the Zmax really began to take off in 2012 hardly anyone used more than 10W to power cartos, cartotanks or clearos. Then high powered coils entered the picture last year and the vaping landscape changed. Now the power game is entering the 100W region.


The Sigelei Zmax is ideal for anyone who wants to vape at 11W or less with a single battery and one of the smallest, most durable tube mods available. It is also a good choice if they want to vape up to the 15W region and don't mind using 2x18350. Keep in mind that groups like ECF took a stand on the potential dangers of using stacked ICR batteries in APVs and issued a serious warning about the practice which they never revised after safer chemistry IMR batteries became available. So, a stigma about stacking batteries still applies to the vaping world.

There are good suggestions about stacking batteries safely that include using matched new batteries, numbering the batteries and rotating their position in the APV with each use. There may be other good suggestions but I'm no specialist in stacking batts so I'll let others write on that.

When you look at the whole world of vaping then high powered vaping is done by a minority of users. However, high powered vaping is very popular on boards like ECF.

Myself, 6.5 to 7.0W with a cartotank is as good as it gets. Two years ago on ECF this was in the most popular vaping wattage range of 5-8W. 6-8W was not considered to be "low powered" vaping. When you look at all of the vapers using all of the devices everywhere this is probably still the most popular range. I saw clearos as a big step backward in vapor quality from cartotanks. I could easily run 10W watts on my cartotanks but don't like it. So vaping 15W really doesn't appeal to me at all.

The current generation of SX and DNA boards leave a void in the vaping world. They don't down regulate. So if you want to vape at a wattage that requires less than than the 4.2V available from a fully charged battery you are SOL with SX and DNA. Right now, that is.

I don't see vaping with 3.7V e-Go type devices or Zmax/Vamo/Provari VV or VV/VW 3-15W APVs disappearing anytime soon. For that matter, cigalikes are going to be around for a long time as well and if the FDA has any say about it, they will be the only choice two years from now.

What bothers me about it and I guess researching more about would of helped, but when something is advertised as a 3-15 watt mod, I was expecting to get that with one battery. Not expecting to have to stack and worry about potential dangers of doing so and keeping track and pairing them together.

 

[tchavei]

I'm happy at 10W with 1.3Ohm coils however I like the durability I get out of a stacked setup. What turns me off is the damm size of it. I already mentioned this but it is heavy and reminds me of a batter stick or something. At home its ok but on the street I look crazier than I really am lol.

Regards
Tony

 

[yzer]

To the surprise of no one Pbusardo was the first ever. ever. ever. ever. to come out with a video on the new Provari P3 today. The styling looks more like Sigelei than Provari and that's a good thing. It's also bigger than Provari and the same size as the V5. Lots of nice gizmo features but I don't think I'll be buying one. It will do 3-20W on one battery so that's a good feature at a price point of what will be way over $200.

 

[JeremyR]

What bothers me about it and I guess researching more about would of helped, but when something is advertised as a 3-15 watt mod, I was expecting to get that with one battery. Not expecting to have to stack and worry about potential dangers of doing so and keeping track and pairing them together.

You can get that (15w) with one battery - if you use a 2.4 ohm coil.

I'm happy at 10W with 1.3Ohm coils however I like the durability I get out of a stacked setup. What turns me off is the damm size of it. I already mentioned this but it is heavy and reminds me of a batter stick or something. At home its ok but on the street I look crazier than I really am lol.
Regards
Tony

It should be 8.1w at 1.3 ohms with one battery. Anyone with a v5 care to try it and see if it says. 8w when set to 15?

I guess the size is something you get used to. I started with 18650 so stacked isn't much of a difference.

Plus it's one of the smallest mods in its class in each battery configuration.

 

[AndriaD]

You can get that (15w) with one battery - if you use a 2.4 ohm coil.





It should be 8.1w at 1.3 ohms with one battery. Anyone with a v5 care to try it and see if it says. 8w when set to 15?

I guess the size is something you get used to. I started with 18650 so stacked isn't much of a difference.

Plus it's one of the smallest mods in its class in each battery configuration.

I agree; I've found that I prefer to use the 18490s around the house, but when we go to my folks' for the whole day, I usually stack some '350s, and I know I don't have to worry about the battery life at all, and it's really not that large. I also do have another PV with me with another flavor, my Blueberry Muffin+Banana Nut Bread has been going everywhere with me lately, nevermind the Virginia as my primary. In fact I'm anxiously awaiting a "black chrome" Vamo V2 to go with my gun-metal smok UDCT, which has the blueberry yumminess in it; it's been in customs in NYC since Sunday night around 8pm.

Andria

 

[tchavei]

Why should it be only 8.1w? That's assuming the mini zMax is limiting current to 2.5 amps which I don't believe it is doing? Never read that anywhere?

1.3 Ohm at 10w is 2.77 amps at 3.61V

Regards
Tony

 

[JeremyR]

I understand your thoughts.. But I believe the only reason they state that is because it's using the same chip. Same chip same claim.

I just don't believe it can do 4 amps off a single 18350 Especially if a full size v5 is limited to 2.5 with a 18650... (. If it did 4 amps the battery would probably last about a half hour.)

I don't have a way to test it. I've only tested the full size in real world use.

***
Anyone have a v5 and capable of putting close to a 2.4 ohm coil on and hitting it at 15w, should display 15w.... then put about a 1.3 on and try to hit it at 15w it should put out about 8. ??
***

 

[fairmana]

As Jeremy explained in a previous post, it depends on the battery configuration you are using.

We need to remember that the Sigelei ZMAX is a digital device and ALWAYS uses 6 volts to fire the atty using pulse width modulation. What changes the power to your atty is the duration of those 6 volt "pulses". The 6 volt pulses reproduce the same level of energy as the comparable DC analog voltage or power level your device is set to. So for example, if you have your mod set to 4 volts, the 6 volts pulses would have less duration than if you had it on a setting that required 5 volts. The duration of those 6 volt digital pulses can be made to reproduce the same heating effect at your atty as if you were applying a straight analog DC voltage from a mech mod (within the capabilities of the device obviously).

Since this device is designed to use different battery configurations, it needs to be able to sense the input supply voltage from the battery and then make a decision on what strategy to use to power the device. Since the input voltage from the battery is never 6 volts which is what it needs, the input voltage either needs to be increased or decreased in order to power the device. To accomplish this, the device either uses a "boost circuit" or a "buck converter" to get the correct working voltage of 6 volts.

When using only one battery, the device uses its boost circuit to increase the 4.2 volts from the battery to the necessary 6 volts the mod needs for those pulses. Since the voltage is increased, the current is decreased (Law of Conservation of Energy). For this reason and probably for other reasons based on the boost circuit components and how it's designed, it cannot provide more than 2.5 amps. Sigelei does not advertise this limitation and this is what can confuse people when they attempt to get more than 2.5 amps to the atty with a single battery and can't understand why they are having a problem.

When you are using 2 stacked batteries, the device uses a buck converter to take the combined 8.4 volts from the batteries and reduce it to the 6 volts the mod needs for the pulses. Using the buck converter to decrease the voltage gives the added benefit of increasing the existing current beyond what the batteries are currently providing. Since voltage is decreased, current is increased (Law of Conservation of Energy). The increased current capability of the buck converter is what enables the device to provide 4 amps of current to the atty when the batteries are stacked.

I hope this helped eliminate any confusion, and I apologize ahead of time if I didn't explain this very well...

 

[JeremyR]

I have tested a 7v pulse stacked instead of 6v. With a multimeter. May have to run more some tests later.

Also when the battery power starts to drop from 4.2 the output suffers. At 3.6 battery I don't believe it can boost to the full power either. The battery's load itself is increased as the power drops and the battery itself starts to struggle with the amperage.

 

[fairmana]

Why should it be only 8.1w? That's assuming the mini zMax is limiting current to 2.5 amps which I don't believe it is doing? Never read that anywhere?

1.3 Ohm at 10w is 2.77 amps at 3.61V

Regards
Tony

I guess I took your post out of context. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

 

[fairmana]

I have tested a 7v pulse stacked instead of 6v. With a multimeter. May have to run more some tests later.

Jeremy, I don't understand how you are you generating a 7v pulse. What device are you using? Are you just testing to see if you can get the pulse to reach 7v?

 

[tchavei]

Ok... Quick question though... I can notice a clear difference between setting my mini at 8w or 10w so acording to the theory, since I m not getting 10w when set at that value, I must also not getting 8w when I choose that value as the taste and vapor production is different. Finally, yesterday while in staked mode I could not find a difference in taste at 10w compared to single mode with a fresh battery... This is confusing

 

[Juvecoop]

As Jeremy explained in a previous post, it depends on the battery configuration you are using.

We need to remember that the Sigelei ZMAX is a digital device and ALWAYS uses 6 volts to fire the atty using pulse width modulation. What changes the power to your atty is the duration of those 6 volt "pulses". The 6 volt pulses reproduce the same level of energy as the comparable DC analog voltage or power level your device is set to. So for example, if you have your mod set to 4 volts, the 6 volts pulses would have less duration than if you had it on a setting that required 5 volts. The duration of those 6 volt digital pulses can be made to reproduce the same heating effect at your atty as if you were applying a straight analog DC voltage from a mech mod (within the capabilities of the device obviously).

Since this device is designed to use different battery configurations, it needs to be able to sense the input supply voltage from the battery and then make a decision on what strategy to use to power the device. Since the input voltage from the battery is never 6 volts which is what it needs, the input voltage either needs to be increased or decreased in order to power the device. To accomplish this, the device either uses a "boost circuit" or a "buck converter" to get the correct working voltage of 6 volts.

When using only one battery, the device uses its boost circuit to increase the 4.2 volts from the battery to the necessary 6 volts the mod needs for those pulses. Since the voltage is increased, the current is decreased (Law of Conservation of Energy). For this reason and probably for other reasons based on the boost circuit components and how it's designed, it cannot provide more than 2.5 amps. Sigelei does not advertise this limitation and this is what can confuse people when they attempt to get more than 2.5 amps to the atty with a single battery and can't understand why they are having a problem.

When you are using 2 stacked batteries, the device uses a buck converter to take the combined 8.4 volts from the batteries and reduce it to the 6 volts the mod needs for the pulses. Using the buck converter to decrease the voltage gives the added benefit of increasing the existing current beyond what the batteries are currently providing. Since voltage is decreased, current is increased (Law of Conservation of Energy). The increased current capability of the buck converter is what enables the device to provide 4 amps of current to the atty when the batteries are stacked.

I hope this helped eliminate any confusion, and I apologize ahead of time if I didn't explain this very well...

Fantastic explanation! I had no idea about the boost circuit or buck converter. I feel that vendors should really explain how these mod really work. If there is one thing I have been noticing is that there are a lot of vendors out there that don't know enough and just get into it. I had one ask his colleague if the MVP had a removable battery and he said yes. I've been into vaping know for about 4 months and I know the answer to that of course it's doesn't! And they were also selling the product.

 

[fairmana]

Why should it be only 8.1w? That's assuming the mini zMax is limiting current to 2.5 amps which I don't believe it is doing? Never read that anywhere?

1.3 Ohm at 10w is 2.77 amps at 3.61V

Regards
Tony

I'm still not sure I completely follow the discussion between you and Jeremy, but I think the assumption is that the ZMAX mini has the same 2.5 amp limitation with a single battery that the V3 has. Assuming that's actually the case, then if you're using a 1.3 ohm coil you would only be able to push about 8 watts before you hit the 2.5 amp limit (with a single battery). I got the same 8.1 watt result when using the Steam Engine calculator.

If I get a chance later today, I'll put a 1.3 ohm coil on my V5 and see what it does.

 

[fairmana]

Ok... Quick question though... I can notice a clear difference between setting my mini at 8w or 10w so acording to the theory, since I m not getting 10w when set at that value, I must also not getting 8w when I choose that value as the taste and vapor production is different. Finally, yesterday while in staked mode I could not find a difference in taste at 10w compared to single mode with a fresh battery... This is confusing

That would be confusing to me as well. The only thing I can think of is that your power calculation is set to MEAN instead of RMS. On my V3, that setting is on menu #8.

The MEAN setting puts out more power than RMS, which if I understand correctly is how Jeremy manages to get more than 15 watts out of his device with stacked batteries. What you need to keep in mind is that when you have your device set to MEAN, the power level you see on the device is not the true power in the sense that it is not equivalent to the same power if you were using a strictly analog DC device. For example, if you vaped at 4 volts on a mech mod, and then set your Sigelei to 4 volts using the same topper, you would be able to tell that your vape was hotter on the Sigelei if it was set to MEAN. You would need to use a "MEAN to RMS" calculation at that point to figure out what the true DC equivalent power was that you were vaping at. You would find that it would be greater than 4 volts.

 

[fairmana]

Ok... Quick question though... I can notice a clear difference between setting my mini at 8w or 10w so acording to the theory, since I m not getting 10w when set at that value, I must also not getting 8w when I choose that value as the taste and vapor production is different. Finally, yesterday while in staked mode I could not find a difference in taste at 10w compared to single mode with a fresh battery... This is confusing

Cont'd from my last post:

So if you find that you are actually in MEAN mode, all I can guess at this point is that you either haven't reached the 2.5 amp limit yet at 8 watts, or the MEAN mode has a different amp limit than the RMS mode does.