Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group
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I have run these tests in the past and posted here.
If you run a 2.4 ohm coil with a single battery the output will be accurate through the full range.
If you run a 2.4 ohm coil with a single battery the output will be accurate through the full range.
I'm not surprised to see that you got over 7 volts with no atomizer attached. It's common to see a higher voltage output on a power source with no load present. As soon as you attach a load, you should see that voltage drop.
I've also been attempting to take some direct measurements just to see if it's possible to get an accurate reading of the output, but it's very frustrating. The output measured on my "true RMS" digital multimeter is never what the device is supposedly putting out (but we already knew this would be a problem). IMO, if we're looking for output accuracy in our measurements, we need to use a Digital Storage Oscilloscope (DSO) or a circuit specifically designed to allow the meter to accurately measure PWM waveforms.
In an effort to avoid using specialized test equipment, I've been playing with measuring the % Duty Cycle of the PWM signal, since two of my digital meters happen to be able to do this. Knowing the atty resistance, % Duty Cycle, and going on the assumption that the PWM voltage is 6 volts, we should be able to calculate the AVG (MEAN) power and from that derive the RMS power. Then we can see if the calculations match what the Sig is saying it's putting out. To make this easier on myself, I made an Excel spreadsheet with the AVG and RMS formulas already set up. I can just plug those 3 variables in and it calculates the AVG voltage, current, and power, as well as the RMS voltage, current, and power. Although I came close in several cases, my calculated results still didn't quite jive with the output I should have been getting. It's possible that my meter readings of the % Duty Cycle aren't quite accurate or that maybe the PWM is not always 6 volts (possibly up to 1/2 a volt less). I noticed that slight variances in any of these factors can skew the results significantly (I'm still playing around with this and making sure I'm using the right formulas).
I also wanted to pass along the below links I came across in my research that discuss the problems of taking true measurements of a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) signal.
CR4 - Thread: How to Measure a PWM Current / Voltage Output?
Kerry D. Wong » Blog Archive » On RMS Voltage Measurement
Measuring current to a PWM device, RMS and other frequency related topics. - Page 1
measuring current of a PWM voltage with non-true RMS DMM
https://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28684
I've also been attempting to take some direct measurements just to see if it's possible to get an accurate reading of the output, but it's very frustrating. The output measured on my "true RMS" digital multimeter is never what the device is supposedly putting out (but we already knew this would be a problem). IMO, if we're looking for output accuracy in our measurements, we need to use a Digital Storage Oscilloscope (DSO) or a circuit specifically designed to allow the meter to accurately measure PWM waveforms.
In an effort to avoid using specialized test equipment, I've been playing with measuring the % Duty Cycle of the PWM signal, since two of my digital meters happen to be able to do this. Knowing the atty resistance, % Duty Cycle, and going on the assumption that the PWM voltage is 6 volts, we should be able to calculate the AVG (MEAN) power and from that derive the RMS power. Then we can see if the calculations match what the Sig is saying it's putting out. To make this easier on myself, I made an Excel spreadsheet with the AVG and RMS formulas already set up. I can just plug those 3 variables in and it calculates the AVG voltage, current, and power, as well as the RMS voltage, current, and power. Although I came close in several cases, my calculated results still didn't quite jive with the output I should have been getting. It's possible that my meter readings of the % Duty Cycle aren't quite accurate or that maybe the PWM is not always 6 volts (possibly up to 1/2 a volt less). I noticed that slight variances in any of these factors can skew the results significantly (I'm still playing around with this and making sure I'm using the right formulas).
I also wanted to pass along the below links I came across in my research that discuss the problems of taking true measurements of a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) signal.
CR4 - Thread: How to Measure a PWM Current / Voltage Output?
Kerry D. Wong » Blog Archive » On RMS Voltage Measurement
Measuring current to a PWM device, RMS and other frequency related topics. - Page 1
measuring current of a PWM voltage with non-true RMS DMM
https://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28684
This isn't a completely scientific test but,
Being that the figures can be compared if it reads 6 stacked and 4.5 single. I feel It's obvious that there is a difference; whether it's completely accurate or not.
2.4 ohm single battery at 6 v will read 6v so it can't be too far off.
Yeah and the higher reading or pulse reading unloaded only showed in wattage mode. But with the reading of 7.4 with stacked batteries . The Same test with single battery read ~ 6.2. So with reasoning and knowing its a 6v pwm single battery. One could conclude its a 7v pulse with stacked.
I feel using this meter as a comparison figure we can easily say stacked does put out more power.
I did get a maximum output amps of ~2.65 in a previous test I ran with single battery.
Being that the figures can be compared if it reads 6 stacked and 4.5 single. I feel It's obvious that there is a difference; whether it's completely accurate or not.
2.4 ohm single battery at 6 v will read 6v so it can't be too far off.
Yeah and the higher reading or pulse reading unloaded only showed in wattage mode. But with the reading of 7.4 with stacked batteries . The Same test with single battery read ~ 6.2. So with reasoning and knowing its a 6v pwm single battery. One could conclude its a 7v pulse with stacked.
I feel using this meter as a comparison figure we can easily say stacked does put out more power.
I did get a maximum output amps of ~2.65 in a previous test I ran with single battery.
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A 2.4 ohm coil at 6 volts will cause the PWM to be at 100% duty cycle, or basically "straight DC". That's why you can accurately compare the 6 volts shown on the Sigelei to the 6 volts DC measured on your multimeter. The 2.4 ohm "sweet spot" is also the 2.5 amp barrier with a single battery. 6 volts / 2.4 ohms = 2.5 amps. 6 volts x 2.5 amps = 15 watts.
Taking that into consideration, there is no way to put out more power if the PWM pulses are maxed out at 6 volts unless the device can increase the amplitude of the pulses. In stacked mode, can you get more power with that 2.4 ohm atty? If so, that's a good indication that the PWM peak pulses are being increased to greater than 6 volts in stacked mode.
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Never tried it because I don't have to run a 2.4 to get a 15w vape now. I can go lower now and haven't tried to test 2.4 in stacked mode. I suppose I could wind one up and test the voltage in stacked mode. When I get a chance I'll give it a try.
I'm not trying to debate the accuracy of these tests. But I think most would agree it shows stacked batteries put out power and single is restricted around 2.5-2.65 amps.
This multimeter test is a measuring stick of sorts. May not be a 12" ruler but stick for stick one and a half sticks is more than one stick. If you get what I mean.
Of course if you run a 1.5 at 6v that would be many more watts . Potentially 24w... I'm going to recoil soon and shoot for 1.5 which should be the maximum power output of the device at 4 amps.
I always use this helpful chart for the sigelie. The 2.5 amps is in red.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xZLVd5aDkwUEJEZXc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=1
I'm not trying to debate the accuracy of these tests. But I think most would agree it shows stacked batteries put out power and single is restricted around 2.5-2.65 amps.
This multimeter test is a measuring stick of sorts. May not be a 12" ruler but stick for stick one and a half sticks is more than one stick. If you get what I mean.
Of course if you run a 1.5 at 6v that would be many more watts . Potentially 24w... I'm going to recoil soon and shoot for 1.5 which should be the maximum power output of the device at 4 amps.
I always use this helpful chart for the sigelie. The 2.5 amps is in red.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xZLVd5aDkwUEJEZXc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=1
Never tried it because I don't have to run a 2.4 to get a 15w vape now. I can go lower now and haven't tried to test 2.4 in stacked mode. I suppose I could wind one up and test the voltage in stacked mode. When I get a chance I'll give it a try.
I'm not trying to debate the accuracy of these tests. But I think most would agree it shows stacked batteries put out power and single is restricted around 2.5-2.65 amps.
This multimeter test is a measuring stick of sorts. May not be a 12" ruler but stick for stick one and a half sticks is more than one stick. If you get what I mean.
Of course if you run a 1.5 at 6v that would be many more watts . Potentially 24w... I'm going to recoil soon and shoot for 1.5 which should be the maximum power output of the device at 4 amps.
I always use this helpful chart for the sigelie. The 2.5 amps is in red.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xZLVd5aDkwUEJEZXc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=1
You know I don't really understand the math of all this at all, my eyes have a tendency to cross, but I appreciate all this nevertheless; I'm trying to follow along as best I can, and what I'm basically getting is a lot more of an understanding about why it's a really bad idea to stack batteries in a mech; it's just so much power, and with no "cut off" circuitry, the potential for disaster seems very high -- it seems to be one of those cases where it might not happen often, but even once is once too many.
thx!
Andria
I'm on vacation at Sea Ranch near Gualala, CA. The switch on the V5 started to misfire most of the time on Monday. I brought a good V3 along as a backup, so no hardship or tantrums resulted. Looks like I will be doing an immortality mod on the V5 soon. I used it for barely four months.
Uh oh! Yesterday my v5 switch was acting funny. Sometimes not turning on. It was fine today so I thought maybe it was from going from a/c'ed office to the humid by the smoker's tree. I'll be following how it evolves for yours.
The switch on my V5 stopped making an audible click a few weeks ago. The tactile feedback is very soft. I'll clean the V5 when I get home in a few days and test it again but I'm virtually certain that the switch is ready for replacement.
Hi all
Cleaning suggestion (maybe this was already suggested, I don't know. Sorry if its old news):
I cleaned my mini zMax today. Used 99% alcohol, cleaned the body, the threads, top cap, bottom cap etc. When I was done, I noticed there was still some dirt in the inner threads on the bottom so I tried to clean them with a Q-tip and alcohol but it didn't worked quite right. So while I was trying to figure out how to clean the threads properly, I remembered that in another hobby of mine (RC), I use to use a cleaning gum to clean screws and alike when I cleaned my helis (after a crash or regular maintenance). That stuff was great to remove dirt, oil and anything in hard to get places soooo.... Went downstairs to the garage and found the stuff
Lets say my threads are super shiny and 100% clean right now
Cleaning suggestion (maybe this was already suggested, I don't know. Sorry if its old news):
I cleaned my mini zMax today. Used 99% alcohol, cleaned the body, the threads, top cap, bottom cap etc. When I was done, I noticed there was still some dirt in the inner threads on the bottom so I tried to clean them with a Q-tip and alcohol but it didn't worked quite right. So while I was trying to figure out how to clean the threads properly, I remembered that in another hobby of mine (RC), I use to use a cleaning gum to clean screws and alike when I cleaned my helis (after a crash or regular maintenance). That stuff was great to remove dirt, oil and anything in hard to get places soooo.... Went downstairs to the garage and found the stuff
Lets say my threads are super shiny and 100% clean right now
I didn't think that conductivity could effect the misfire issue. It didn't seem to matter if it was an 18350 or 18490, full or low charge. I did seem to have success by slightly loosening and tightening the end cap and tube.
Just did a test at 10W and 1.3Ohm coil between the sigelei mini zmax and the evic supreme both in 18350 and there is definitely a difference in taste. I vape strait ice menthol and with the supreme the vape was fresher with more vapour although I could feel a burned back taste so I guess you were right... I'm not getting real 10W from the sigelei in 18350 mode... going to lower the supreme until the taste matches with the sigelei.
Curiously I get the exact same taste of the sigelei with my itaste VV V3 when set at 10W... I wonder if the itaste isn't giving out the true 10W either or if it is the supreme that is overshooting somehow... the more I know, the more questions I have...
Regards
Tony
Curiously I get the exact same taste of the sigelei with my itaste VV V3 when set at 10W... I wonder if the itaste isn't giving out the true 10W either or if it is the supreme that is overshooting somehow... the more I know, the more questions I have...
Regards
Tony
I've been reading this thread for weeks, yes I read every post.
Wanted to express my gratitude to yzer and so many others for all of the valuable information for the Sigelei ZMax. I bought a Sigelei V5 a month ago at a local retailer, paid way too much for it, but it's been working well, no issues, yet.
I bought the mandatory tube of Noalox at Home Hardware, kind of messy stuff, but worth the trouble.
For a new user, things like proper battery tube tightening is a great help, and yzer has written a great guide for that, which I've noticed he willingly re-posts for those who ask.
And where else would you find great information on buying a better switch for it, if there are any problems.
Keep up the good work, this is a great community.
Wanted to express my gratitude to yzer and so many others for all of the valuable information for the Sigelei ZMax. I bought a Sigelei V5 a month ago at a local retailer, paid way too much for it, but it's been working well, no issues, yet.
I bought the mandatory tube of Noalox at Home Hardware, kind of messy stuff, but worth the trouble.
For a new user, things like proper battery tube tightening is a great help, and yzer has written a great guide for that, which I've noticed he willingly re-posts for those who ask.
And where else would you find great information on buying a better switch for it, if there are any problems.
Keep up the good work, this is a great community.
It's the amps Tony. Zmax can only push 2.5 -2.6 with one battery. Evic 30w has a higher amp limit, I've heard 6amps with one battery. It's newer technology. I notice they say you have to use sony vct's to get maximum power. Looks like a nic mod though.
They should match up at 8.1w, 1.3ohm @ 2.6amps = 8.1 watts
All the pre DNA mods work this way. 2.5-3 amp limit with one battery across the board.
You can get 10w with all those apv's if you use a 1.6 - 3.6 ohm coil. 1.6ohm/ 10w/ 4v/ 2.5 amps , 3.6ohm/ 10w/ 6v/ 1.67 amps
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Not long ago, I mentioned a device I came across (which I couldn't remember the name of) that let you measure a device's PWM output. It turns out it was the ECDMeter, but the guy who was making them in Australia (Stoney) doesn't seem to be making/selling them any more, at least as far as I can tell. That device can measure just about everything you'd want to know on your output (ohms, RMS Power, AVG Power, etc...).
At any rate, I did come across another device called "The Omnitester" that measures the PWM output voltage. It's made by SMOK, and although It's nowhere near as robust as the ECDMeter, the cost is very reasonable at about 20 bucks (about the same as the basic 510 ohm meters that are available). This device says it measure atty ohms and output voltage (including PWM output voltage). It includes both a male and female 510 connector on the unit which allows you to test your device output under load (you can vape with your topper and device connected if you choose to). It only shows output measurements to one decimal point, so if more accuracy is desired, it isn't capable (sub-ohm'ers obviously won't like the ohm-meter on this). I've read that the center post may need to be pulled occasionally if it doesn't make good contact (a 510 adapter would probably solve that problem).
Based on a quick search, Madvapes and a few other vape sites carry them for around 20 bucks (give or take). There are also several YouTube video reviews out there if anyone is interested.
@AndriaD: I came across this ECF thread where you posted that you bought one of these a few months ago. Any additional comments/complaints you could share regarding this device?
At any rate, I did come across another device called "The Omnitester" that measures the PWM output voltage. It's made by SMOK, and although It's nowhere near as robust as the ECDMeter, the cost is very reasonable at about 20 bucks (about the same as the basic 510 ohm meters that are available). This device says it measure atty ohms and output voltage (including PWM output voltage). It includes both a male and female 510 connector on the unit which allows you to test your device output under load (you can vape with your topper and device connected if you choose to). It only shows output measurements to one decimal point, so if more accuracy is desired, it isn't capable (sub-ohm'ers obviously won't like the ohm-meter on this). I've read that the center post may need to be pulled occasionally if it doesn't make good contact (a 510 adapter would probably solve that problem).
Based on a quick search, Madvapes and a few other vape sites carry them for around 20 bucks (give or take). There are also several YouTube video reviews out there if anyone is interested.
@AndriaD: I came across this ECF thread where you posted that you bought one of these a few months ago. Any additional comments/complaints you could share regarding this device?
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Y'all mind if I ask a new guy battery question?
When I got my V5 from MVS I got the eFest 18650 2000MAH and eFest 18450 1100MAH batteries.
Since reading reviews and opinions I'd like to upgrade to AW IMR 18650 3.7V 2000MAH or SONY US18650VTC4 and the AW IMR 18490 3.7V 1100MAH.
Is the 18490 comparable to the 18500 and the Sony comparable to the 18650?
All from RTD Vapor cause he's a nice guy.
Thanks-
When I got my V5 from MVS I got the eFest 18650 2000MAH and eFest 18450 1100MAH batteries.
Since reading reviews and opinions I'd like to upgrade to AW IMR 18650 3.7V 2000MAH or SONY US18650VTC4 and the AW IMR 18490 3.7V 1100MAH.
Is the 18490 comparable to the 18500 and the Sony comparable to the 18650?
All from RTD Vapor cause he's a nice guy.
Thanks-
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