Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[tunggua]

Cool Tunggua! Good to hear from you.

I'm still using mine daily it's the only mod I have, my trusty zmax.

I run this baby stacked at 6v all day at 1.3-1.5. I do believe that it's putting out around 27w when fully charged at 1.3. Much stronger than 1.5. Admittedly the power output drops along with the battery but it stays well above 20 through out the charge. Yeah the 20w only adds the capability of computing up to 20w. I heard the 20w can take stacked also. But if it doesn't do voltage, then it would be capped. Both Me and Fairmana both did testing on the zmax.

My screen also sits lower than originally but it's no big deal it's not moving any more, and working great! Haven't had any problems since I did mine a long time ago. No worries about over tightening.

As many of you now mine has been through a lot. Even thrown from the second floor slamming into hard wood.

Wow! 27w, too bad mine can't fire 1.3ohm. Even if the Sig20w can run stacked, there will be no gains, like you said, it's VW only,no direct voltage control.

Unless of course, it can be fooled to read a higher resistance than actual, coz I did see it happen when one of my newly built 1.8ohm coil wasn't secured properly and it was reading 4+ohm, the coil instantly glowed super bright and deformed.

 

[JeremyR]

I haven't tested it but those hits off a fresh battery are definately hotter.

It won't fire 1.3? How many times have you tried? If it picks up 1.29 it won't fire. It takes some finess to hit 1.3, it took me a while to get it. If you shoot for 1.35 you'll have better luck.

If your making micro coils they short in the beginning.. The trick to get them oxidized is the forced fire method. Unscrew atty to break contact hold the fire button screw it tight to contact it will fire the coil. Do this a few times till it fires at 1.3 on its own. ( I have gone away from touching coils I find spaced coil are better all around performance wise)

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Oh I made the magic stick fit I also added a o-ring and a piece of tape, clear so I can see the stick

 

[fairmana]

I'm happy to help tunggua. Yzer posted some great pics when he did his button replacement farther back in the forum and you can also watch the YouTube vid.

Based on what I was able to determine using my 867B Fluke Graphical meter in conjunction with the Omnitester, the voltage used in the PWM waveform by the Zmax is not really a preset specific voltage output in a pure sense (7 volts or otherwise). When using stacked batteries, the device has a greater "working voltage" (somewhere around 7 volts) whereas in single battery mode, it is less (somewhere slightly below 6 volts). The Zmax buck and boost circuits simply provide a working voltage that will be used in the PWM signal, and that working voltage value will vary depending on the specific batteries used and config (stacked, etc) as well as by the load across the atomizer (voltage drop). My understanding is that the Zmax doesn't vary its working voltage because I suspect that the buck and boost circuits are preset at the factory (based on the components used) to always "buck" or "boost" to a specific degree. In other words, the buck or boost circuits won't increase or decrease the working voltage based on any changes to the user settings in the menu.

Based on my findings, the only value that is varied by the Zmax is the duty cycle of the PWM signal. The power output is calculated and monitored by the microprocessor during vaping and the duty cycle is varied (if needed) to maintain the user specified target output. As the battery is depleted and the working voltage provided by the buck or boost circuit (whichever config is being used) begins to decrease, the microprocessor compensates by increasing the duty cycle of the PWM waveform (longer pulses of the reduced voltage to hold the average output power steady). This cycle of battery depletion and compensation continues until the microprocessor can no longer compensate by increasing the duty cycle (duty cycle is maxed out at 100%). At that point, you'll start to notice your output power sag as the working voltage provided by the buck or boost circuit is further reduced until the low battery indication is displayed.

I hope I wrote this so it makes some sort of sense. Apologies ahead of time if not.

*Edited to include the hyperlink

 

[fairmana]

Oh I made the magic stick fit I also added a o-ring and a piece of tape, clear so I can see the stick

Glad to hear you have something pieced together that works for you Dave. I had already started taking measurements when you posted, so I'll go ahead and post them here regardless. Maybe it will be useful to someone down the road. By the way, in this drawing I included all the actual button dimensions, but if I were to have to make one, I'd probably just make the lower portion that pushes on the lower switch the same width as the "ring" in the center. It should work fine (I don't think the extra width would snag on anything) and it would be easier to fabricate. Just my .

 

[fairmana]

By the way, does anyone know a machinist that would like to make some extra $ turning some of these from stainless steel on a lathe? I'll buy a half-dozen right away!

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Glad to hear you have something pieced together that works for you Dave. I had already started taking measurements when you posted, so I'll go ahead and post them here regardless. Maybe it will be useful to someone down the road. By the way, in this drawing I included all the actual button dimensions, but if I were to have to make one, I'd probably just make the lower portion that pushes on the lower switch the same width as the "ring" in the center. It should work fine (I don't think the extra width would snag on anything) and it would be easier to fabricate. Just my .

View attachment 387791

I think your right about the width. I might make a mold to make one out of a hard plastic and see how it is.

 

[tunggua]

I haven't tested it but those hits off a fresh battery are definately hotter.

It won't fire 1.3? How many times have you tried? If it picks up 1.29 it won't fire. It takes some finess to hit 1.3, it took me a while to get it. If you shoot for 1.35 you'll have better luck.

If your making micro coils they short in the beginning.. The trick to get them oxidized is the forced fire method. Unscrew atty to break contact hold the fire button screw it tight to contact it will fire the coil. Do this a few times till it fires at 1.3 on its own. ( I have gone away from touching coils I find spaced coil are better all around performance wise)

It won't fire eventhough all my other mods read 1.3 on that atty. Guess I'll have to increase diameter a tiny bit to get past the threshold.

Yup,all my newly wound twisted 32g coils will short initially and the first reading is always way lower. I always mount them first to the Sig20w coz it'll fire down to 0.5-0.6, then work out the shorts with a ceramic tweezer by pulling the section that's shorting.
Similarly,I no longer make contact coils although I tension wound them touching, then space 'em out with the tweezer, as I do find the lightly spaced coils perform better.

 

[tunggua]

I'm happy to help tunggua. Yzer posted some great pics when he did his button replacement farther back in the forum and you can also watch the YouTube vid.

Based on what I was able to determine using my 867B Fluke Graphical meter in conjunction with the Omnitester, the voltage used in the PWM waveform by the Zmax is not really a preset specific voltage output in a pure sense (7 volts or otherwise). When using stacked batteries, the device has a greater "working voltage" (somewhere around 7 volts) whereas in single battery mode, it is less (somewhere slightly below 6 volts). The Zmax buck and boost circuits simply provide a working voltage that will be used in the PWM signal, and that working voltage value will vary depending on the specific batteries used and config (stacked, etc) as well as by the load across the atomizer (voltage drop). My understanding is that the Zmax doesn't vary its working voltage because I suspect that the buck and boost circuits are preset at the factory (based on the components used) to always "buck" or "boost" to a specific degree. In other words, the buck or boost circuits won't increase or decrease the working voltage based on any changes to the user settings in the menu.

Based on my findings, the only value that is varied by the Zmax is the duty cycle of the PWM signal. The power output is calculated and monitored by the microprocessor during vaping and the duty cycle is varied (if needed) to maintain the user specified target output. As the battery is depleted and the working voltage provided by the buck or boost circuit (whichever config is being used) begins to decrease, the microprocessor compensates by increasing the duty cycle of the PWM waveform (longer pulses of the reduced voltage to hold the average output power steady). This cycle of battery depletion and compensation continues until the microprocessor can no longer compensate by increasing the duty cycle (duty cycle is maxed out at 100%). At that point, you'll start to notice your output power sag as the working voltage provided by the buck or boost circuit is further reduced until the low battery indication is displayed.

I hope I wrote this so it makes some sort of sense. Apologies ahead of time if not.

*Edited to include the hyperlink

Yeah I saw the pics and watched the vid, which is what made me pop the cap off,haha.

I realised all the '33.3hz' boards will 'boost' to 6v and pulse from there with single batt(4.2v input) and actually achieves flat DC at the max 6v, while it will 'buck' to 7v from dual batt(8.4v)and pulse from there.
This is base on all the pics I've seen of scopes from these 33.3 boards (PB has lots of them, dating back to quite some time)

 

[tootster]

Hello. Just a quick question as you are an owner of both the zmax v3 and v5. Are there significant differences in the newer v5 (besides the cellphone charger) and the v3 that make the v5 more desirable? Are there any differences that make the v3 a better choice?

 

[yzer]

I think your right about the width. I might make a mold to make one out of a hard plastic and see how it is.

The machined metal button on my V5 is a little different. The metal button is hollow and a silicon plug fits inside. The base of the silicon plug is a little wider than the widest part of the metal button.

 

[yzer]

Hello. Just a quick question as you are an owner of both the zmax v3 and v5. Are there significant differences in the newer v5 (besides the cellphone charger) and the v3 that make the v5 more desirable? Are there any differences that make the v3 a better choice?

The V5 adds several features to the V3.

-cell phone charger accessory.
-the OLED display on the V5 will show two lines of information when fired. The V3 will show one line of information when fired.
-V5 shows a battery charge icon on the display in addition to showing battery voltage elsewhere in the menu.
-V5 will show amps when fired. V3 doesn't.
-V5 display includes a puff counter
-V5 has a puff timer feature that V3 doesn't. I haven't found much of a use for this.

The advantages for V5 are additional features absent on the V3. These features increase the cost slightly. The advantage for the V3 is the same performance and the same basic features as V5 at a slightly lower cost.

 

[yzer]

I have two V3s (first and second generation) and a V5. I use them all but the V5 is my favorite.

 

[tootster]

Thank you very much. That will help me in my quest for purchasing my first variable voltage and variable wattage device. . .

 

[fairmana]

The machined metal button on my V5 is a little different. The metal button is hollow and a silicon plug fits inside. The base of the silicon plug is a little wider than the widest part of the metal button.

Yup. The V5's button is a little different. My stainless button is the same as yours Yzer. I'm happy that mine came with that button and not the plastic "chromed" one with the "power symbol" on it. It's a shame they didn't stick with that metal button for all V5's since they are more robust and not prone to having the chrome wear off. I'm not sure why they opted for the silicone plug at the bottom. My guess is that it makes for softer contact with the lower button and maybe helps to eliminate rattling noise.

I passed along the dimensions of the V3 button to Dave since he has the V3. However, I suspect that anyone could use the old style clear V3 button in a V5 with no issues. The circuit board and the support inside the tube should be at the same height in the V3 as it is in a V5, so a V3 outer button should press down on the internal switch just fine. If someone loses the button in their V5 and had to fabricate one from scratch, the dimensions I posted for the V3 button should work. You could even add a layer of silicone rubber to the underside if you wanted to, so long as you take that extra depth into account when making the button (so it doesn't end up too deep inside the tube).

P.S. To all our military members and veterans: Thanks for your service!!
Take a moment to remember those that came before and made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

 

[yzer]

Thanks for explaining that difference between clear or chromed plastic buttons and metal. I have disassembled only one Sigelei Zmax and that's the metal button V5, which seems to be something of a rare bird.

 

[pistacio]

Hey Tunggua! Congrats on breaking open your device and moving forward on a repair. You didn't mention it specifically, but from your description it sounds like your half-round plastic support for the circuit board broke loose from the inner wall of the tube. I've had good luck gluing that back to the inner wall of the tube with epoxy to keep the half-round plastic support from spinning inside the tube. I also like to ensure that the circuit card is free to move back and forth in the slots of the half-round plastic support (I file away the "stops" that are at the ends of both slots if they aren't already broken out). This allows the end of the circuit card to move and sit firmly up against the 2mm-thick plastic spacer I insert under the top cap. Since the circuit card is then free to independently push against the spacer, there is no longer any pressure on the half-round plastic support from the battery. That keeps the half-round plastic support from ever breaking away from the inside of the tube again. I used a micrometer with a plunge gauge and measured 2mm as the proper thickness for the plastic spacer. This keeps the circuit card at the original factory depth inside the tube lengthwise and keeps the inner button aligned with the outer button. I wouldn't recommend using cardboard as a spacer under the top cap since it will compress from the battery pushing on the circuit card (cardboard is also flammable - just an extra safety precaution). I've found that a plastic horseshoe-shaped spacer (again, 2mm thick) works perfectly and the horseshoe shape keeps the wires from getting pinched under the top cap.

Since the Zmax uses Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), most meters can't accurately measure the voltage of the output. The only exception is when you are certain the device is putting out it's maximum voltage. That is when the PWM will be at 100% duty cycle (basically a straight DC voltage with no waveform) which a DC voltmeter can read accurately. If your digital meter can measure Duty Cycle %, you can verify when it's at 100% duty cycle so you know your DC voltage meter reading will be accurate. If you want to be able to continue measuring your output with minimum hassle, a cheap solution is to buy the OmniTester made by SMOK, which can measure PWM voltage accurately enough for our purposes (about $20). I bought one for testing my Zmax's and it works quite well.

Thank you Fairmana for your YouTube vids(which directed me here). I just received my V5 this weekend and already had to operate on it. The board was shifted from the previous owner over tightening the battery. I was able to temporarily fix it with some dense foam cut into a u shape and inserted where you did the 2mm spacer. Although its working well, I'll find myself a better plastic piece in the shop tomorrow ( I love being a machinist, comes in handy).

Also, do you know how thick the spacer/washer is on the battery + end of the board (first piece inserted before installing the board into the tube)? Mine was missing . I used a washer I had laying around with a layer of electrical tape on both ends.

In loving this thing so far with a Protank II attached, a step up from my spinners and Evod tank. Its not as large as I expected (even in 18650 mode)...

 

[fairmana]

Thank you Fairmana for your YouTube vids(which directed me here). I just received my V5 this weekend and already had to operate on it. The board was shifted from the previous owner over tightening the battery. I was able to temporarily fix it with some dense foam cut into a u shape and inserted where you did the 2mm spacer. Although its working well, I'll find myself a better plastic piece in the shop tomorrow ( I love being a machinist, comes in handy).

Also, do you know how thick the spacer/washer is on the battery + end of the board (first piece inserted before installing the board into the tube)? Mine was missing . I used a washer I had laying around with a layer of electrical tape on both ends.

In loving this thing so far with a Protank II attached, a step up from my spinners and Evod tank. Its not as large as I expected (even in 18650 mode)...

Welcome to the forum Pistacio, and I'm happy that the video is helping you out. It sure sounds like you got a "well used" V5.

I've included a drawing and the dimensions for the black plastic washer that sits in the bottom of the tube. I took these measurements with my micrometer, so the measurements should be pretty accurate. I'm hoping you're able to make a duplicate washer that works well for you.

Let us know how it goes and best of luck!

 

[pistacio]

Thanks for the sketch, the washer I had in there was perfect!

I grabbed an assortment of nylon washers from work:



I used an old eGo threaded "beauty ring" to grab onto:





Here's my temp fix (foam) removed:



New washer inserted:

 

[pistacio]

I used a clamp with a threaded handle, and a wood sandwich to "press" everything back together, I don't have a vise in the garage:



Everything is working great, again.

Let's hope my button lasts for a while...

Are the buttons from Digikey available to purchase in low quantity?