SMPL Mod (clone) discussion

[mhertz]

Here's the thing about the springs.
Think of how the switch works.
It slides through the housing.

Contact in the housing is made when the button rides against the waves in the sides of the housing.
Side friction contact.

When the button touches the battery it doesn't bottom out on the housing, it bottoms out on the compressed spring.

This is even more relevant, the more the mod is used, and the greater the tolerances of the waves become due to the soft brass.
[...]

The waves are still in contact relentless and the spring is, I believe i've learned, paralleled connected with the other parts(and which/should makes the spring resistance irrelevant mostly) and those(waves) provides more surface area as contact-points... Btw. I thought much of the connection where not only done on the waves but done around the negative connection which also slides up/down...

I do believe you, please don't misunderstand me, but I guess i'm misunderstanding something in your explenation... Numbers and theory is one thing and practical experience is another...

Lastly, I guess that is also why the smpl is known to have low vd, as those waves extends connection surface-area + of-course big one-piece negative-contact and lesser threads and pinless 510... If just the freakin' button where more stable, dammit, lol! I highly suspect it's because of the bigger diameter "connection-hole" vs. e.g. the king v2 style(narrower)...

 

[Bad Ninja]

The shaft of the switch moves up and down in between the contact "waves".
There is a gap.
The spring however, compresses and becomes the main contact point between the button and the button housing.
The more you use the switch, the more the side friction of brass on brass wears the surface, and increases the gap.
Fire your mod and press all around the switch. Wiggle it while firing. You will notice a difference.

 

[mhertz]

The middle-hole connecting both switch-parts(shaft) has a gap, but I didn't think it would always slide exactly in the middle and never touch at a side...

How is the spring the main contact point(compressed or not), when the waves are in contact? (plus one of the shaft sides possibly)

E.g. what about magnet smpls...

Sorry for being dense

 

[Bad Ninja]

The middle-hole connecting both switch-parts(shaft) has a gap, but I didn't think it would always slide exactly in the middle and never touch at a side...

How is the spring the main contact point(compressed or not), when the waves are in contact? (plus one of the shaft sides possibly)

E.g. what about magnet smpls...

Sorry for being dense

It doesn't "always" slide exactly
In the middle, but it does happen.
And the more it touches the sides, the bigger the "middle" gap gets
Brass is soft.
Additionally, the spring is always in tight contact every time you compress it.
Thinking that the spring carries no current isn't logical or accurate.

A poor spring made of questionable metals can absolutely get hot under load.

 

[mhertz]

Thanks mate! Appreciated as always!

I don't think that the spring doesn't carry current, and I don't think anyone here does, but there where just presented an equation showing that the resistance when in parallel where irrelevant, also it was stated that if the spring where the main conducter, then no matter which material(copper e.g.) it would heat up and act like another heating coil when using low ohm... Just stating my reasoning to wanting to educate myself better on this issue...

Thanks again!

 

[Bad Ninja]

Those equations are general, and don't take into consideration the variables that occur in every day use.
They are accurate, provided conditions match those the equation are based on.
In real life, brass is soft, tolerances change, and parts wear.

 

[mhertz]

Ahh, sorry, now I see what you're saying... So the compressed spring takes the main workload from the other parts with lesser tolerances and hense, needs to be up-to-snuff!

That took some time to sink in, lol!... Sorry... Thanks again!

 

[Bad Ninja]

Ahh, sorry, now I see what you're saying... So the compressed spring takes the main workload from the other parts with lesser tolerances and hense, needs to be up-to-snuff!

That took some time to sink in, lol!... Sorry... Thanks again!

Bingo!

Sometimes I have a hard time relating a visual through text.
Lol.

 

[sonicbomb]

Here's an idea for an experiment.
Measure the voltage across a loaded atty while firing the mod. Then remove the spring from button, fire it again upright so the button returns to off by gravity, and measure the voltage again. How much difference is there between the values?
There are lots of different switch designs, but I'll wager the values are virtually identical.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Here's an idea for an experiment.
Measure the voltage across a loaded atty while firing the mod. Then remove the spring from button, fire it again upright so the button returns to off by gravity, and measure the voltage again. How much difference is there between the values?
There are lots of different switch designs, but I'll wager the values are virtually identical.

Doesn't really apply here unless maybe you wiggle the switch while testing, or just test a mod that has a hot button issue. I guarantee you'll see a difference


FYI: I'm not just guessing here. I have 5 SMPLs and have repaired dozens for local shops.

 

[mhertz]

For f***'s sake that stupid c-clip!!! I've opened it before for cleaning, but this time it took a hour lol, as I had forgot how to do it with the screwdriver...It finally came off and now I remembered the "way" again... Then another hour to get it on, but still not getting on! Tried with another screwdriver than the one to get it off, and "nailed" it in second try! Love the design, but freakin' hate c-clips... Though a saved set of threads, makes up for it, imho...

Anyway, I had to clean it both because well, it's a mech, but also because I wanted to make some VD tests to see if there's a difference between the one-piece-contact 1:1 switch c-clip smpl, vs 2-piece smpl, vs 2-piece magnet smpl(mine's also with copper pin)... Granted, the 1:1 switch smpl is in copper and the others in SS but nonetheless, as I couldn't get a SS 1:1 on FT/FC... However, as the 1:1 switch of the copper smpl also fits the SS tubes, then I changed switch and tested that also(SS with 1:1 switch). Btw, the 1:1 switch is a clone of the newest smpl switch which only has waves two places and not all around and is much more stable than the 2-piece-contact switches with waves all around, but I haven't yet tried a 1:1 switch with waves all around. Maybe the less waves improves stability? By stability, I mean repeated results, btw...

Anyway, here's the results, and I only did a standard 1ohm test this time, and 5 presses and most consistent selected... It's an old abused 25R used... I have 4 unused 25Rs, and 2 30q's, i'm gonna take into rotation and ditch the others very soon though...

SS, 2-piece contact, spring: 0.19v
$9.92 SMPL Styled 18650 Mechanical Mod - stainless steel + brass at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

SS, 2-piece contact, magnets, copper-pin: 0.15v
focalecig.com - SMPL Style 18650 Mechanical Mod - Silver

Copper, 1-piece contact 1:1: 0.11v (and much, much, stabler button!)
focalecig.com - SMPL Style Mechanical Mod - Copper

SS, 1-piece contact 1:1(blend of the two mods above): 0.12v

Also tested the first smpl with and without spring, and the result where pretty much identical or 0.01v different, depending on which result chosen. Also, the magnet smpl I had to do 10 turns, because it was more unstable than the others...

Wiggling the button paused the display shortly and came back repeatedly, but I couldn't really see anything else much with regards to values changing more than before. I only tested it on one "not 1:1" switch smpl(the one with magnets -- EDIT: Crap, should have tested this on a smpl with springs I guess, since "springs and current" where the topic for this test... Sorry!)... I guess it could make the negative contact slightly turn at an angle to either side against the battery and which would shortly break/change the current and vd drop because of sparks. Also, it would change which side in the middle hole, which connects the two pieces, have contact. The "gap" is so small that I believe there's always contact, atleast 99% of the time...

I remember Froth once stating that his clone smpl's vs originals, where about 0.3v apart, because of less good tolerances on the clones. He uses(atleast used too use) pretty low builds, same resistance-range like me, so that's why the big difference also, and not a 1ohm test like here...

Lastly, VD tests, in general are not of much use, but they are however very useful in correct context, as a personal tool for measuring efficiency between owned mods, for better battery/cycle-life and not having to workaround a bad mod by lowering resistance which drops even more current. Also for not getting hot switches on low ohms as much.

I say 'personal', because the values are not interchangeable, as most of the drop is the internal battery resistance itself and not the mod, but when using same cell, it's perfectly possible to compare between your own mods...

Sorry for long ramblings, lol!

 

[Mrez]

So Mhertz, if I am understanding your post above correctly, the copper version from focalecig with the button the resembles the original SMPL switch had the least drop in voltage/best efficiency at 1 ohm? I would guess that makes sense, as you have removed a point of contact with not having a separate screw. You mentioned that switch on the 1:1 copper version is patterned after the more recent design. I thought the more recent SMPL switch had a concave contact point, specifically to reduce hot button issues. Still looking for the right vacation mod. I like the King V2 in the other thread, but I'd prefer less threading in the mod all around as I am not going to have my cleaning supplies with me. The copper SMPL appeals...

 

[sonicbomb]

Nice one mhertz. The c-clip buttons are a pain to open for cleaning, but you can get a tool specifically for opening them. Do a search on c-clip or circlip pliers. They look like this .

 

[Bad Ninja]

@mhertz
The reason the display flickered when you wiggled the switch was a total loss of contact.
Dead spot. tolerance gaps will increase with use and friction.
Brass is soft and wears very easily.

 

[mhertz]

So Mhertz, if I am understanding your post above correctly, the copper version from focalecig with the button the resembles the original SMPL switch had the least drop in voltage/best efficiency at 1 ohm?

Yes.

I would guess that makes sense, as you have removed a point of contact with not having a separate screw.[...]

Exactly! It's also a bigger thicker contact-point, which I suspect have also alot to do with it... I can't wait to get my praxis which should have an even beefier 1-piece contact in solid brass too, and measure the difference between the two. It should be slightly better hitting and no hot button per design, as non-loaded spring... (Thanks again Nikea!)

You mentioned that switch on the 1:1 copper version is patterned after the more recent design. I thought the more recent SMPL switch had a concave contact point, specifically to reduce hot button issues.

Sorry, I did think about if I should write "Not SMPL+, but the older original", and should have It's often refered as the v1.1 switch... The 2-piece is often called v2.0 switch, although it isn't even original, but a cloners idea...

I believe I remember that they did it too eliminate button crunchiness, but maybe I remember wrong. I've been thinking that maybe it's more stable because it's a harder button as the spring is slightly more stiff? The most unstable is the magnet one, which is the loosest throw, then the medium spring and then best the stiffer one, so I don't know if it's because of that, I'll have to test... On second thought, I do think it's because of the contact is wider... If the reduced waves does anything to stability, I don't know, maybe...

Still looking for the right vacation mod. I like the King V2 in the other thread, but I'd prefer less threading in the mod all around as I am not going to have my cleaning supplies with me. The copper SMPL appeals...

The king rocks, but I understand what you're saying and also hunt lesser threads in general... I never take the king out, as it's on the heavy side... I always take a SS smpl out, and even though it doesn't hit as hard as others, then it's not that evident on higher ohms, like I always use 0.5'ish ohm, never lower, when going out... I understand your situation is different of course, with a longer vacation...

Nice one mhertz.

Thanks alot mate!

The c-clip ....
ons are a pain to open for cleaning, but you can get a tool specifically for opening them. Do a search on c-clip or circlip pliers. They look like this .

Great advice, thanks man! Would for sure help out, lol! Awesome!

@mhertz
The reason the display flickered when you wiggled the switch was a total loss of contact.
Dead spot. tolerance gaps will increase with use and friction.
Brass is soft and wears very easily.

Thanks mate! Got it! Ahh, my smpl's are not used very much, as I nearly only use mech boxes for my low ohm builds, for better battery-life and less abusing on the cells... My "gap" is practically "gapless", lol! However after extended usage, that obviously changes, thanks!

Btw, if my test "results/explanation" sounded like it was in contradiction to your explanation, then it wasn't meant like that, sorry...

 

[Mrez]

The king rocks, but I understand what you're saying and also hunt lesser threads in general... I never take the king out, as it's on the heavy side... I always take a SS smpl out, and even though it doesn't hit as hard as others, then it's not that evident on higher ohms, like I always use 0.5'ish ohm, never lower, when going out... I understand your situation is different of course, with a longer vacation...

Yeah, don't feel like lugging a big King 2, while I'm sipping Rum Runners and Mai Tais on a white jamaican beach. I'm leaning towards that copper SMPL now. I think I can vape on that beach, so my .25 builds are coming with me. I really need to get better springs. I looked at the site that Duc mentioned, and couldnt figure out what the hell to order XD.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Yeah, don't feel like lugging a big King 2, while I'm sipping Rum Runners and Mai Tais on a white jamaican beach. I'm leaning towards that copper SMPL now. I think I can vape on that beach, so my .25 builds are coming with me. I really need to get better springs. I looked at the site that Duc mentioned, and couldnt figure out what the hell to order XD.

 

[mhertz]

Btw, Mrez, for a taking-out/traveling mech, then I can fully recommend the aluminum with copper internals abaddon clone from fc. Seriously, you won't believe how small it is before seeing it in real life, and the vids don't show it's size good(everything on video gets bigger/zoomed). It's size is comparabel to two batteries side-by-side and a half inch on top over them... Seriously!
Especially as you use low builds, so the battery-life gets better... It hits really great(0.08-9) drop on 1ohm tested before cleaning it for 2 weeks! It's extremely light(aluminum), and fires every-time and is comfortable in the hand(round edges). I use it everyday now as main mod, since getting an issue with my nikita(510-insulator gets in the way of 510-pin, making it fire lower, still looking into it)... One other thing I love, design-wise, is that there's saved some loaded circuit parts + never hot button, because the button and spring is insulated out from the circuit and only used to push the two parts together(why didn't the nikita be made like that I am baffled about...).

Note, if you/others do get it, then the fire-ring pin/screw needs to be backed out a little to make better/consistent contact. It doesn't matter that it's backed out, since it's not in the circuit, well the pin is, but what it's screwed into(plastic-insulator) isn't(brilliant!)... This version has a shorter contact-plate, which also I suspect means it makes better contact than other clones, which can touch at-a-side possible, instead of flat/full-connection like mine. Also all screws are copper, whereas some are silver-plated and others SS, on the other clones.

Sorry for off-topic and ramblings again, lol Maybe it can benefit someone hopefully, looking for a cheap(18 bucks!) great dual parallel mech...

focalecig.com - Abaddon Style Dual 18650 Box Mod - Silver

Note, it looks like they have the same model on ft for 15.85, and 14.27 with code 'RMBBUST'. I don't know for sure though, as they don't post pics of the contact-plate under the button, which is copper on mine(and shortened), and plated brass on other clones:
$15.85 Abaddon Box Styled 2*18650 Mechanical Mod - aluminum at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

 

[Mrez]

View attachment 532929

Always get salt on my margarita. It balances out the tequila. XD

 

[Mrez]

Btw, Mrez, for a taking-out/traveling mech, then I can fully recommend the aluminum with copper internals abaddon clone from fc. Seriously, you won't believe how small it is before seeing it in real life, and the vids don't show it's size good(everything on video gets bigger/zoomed). Especially as you use low builds, so the battery-life gets better... It hits really great(0.08-9) drop on 1ohm. It's extremely light(aluminum), and fires every-time and is comfortable in the hand. I use it everyday now as main mod, since getting an issue with my nikita(510-insulator gets in the way of 510-pin, making it fire lower, still looking into it)... One other thing I love, design-wise, is that there's saved some loaded circuit parts + never hot button, because the button and spring is insulated out from the circuit and only used to push the two parts together(why didn't the nikita be made like that I am baffled about...).

Note, if you do get it, then the fire-ring pin/screw needs to be backed out a little to make better/consistent contact. It doesn't matter that it's backed out, since it's not in the circuit(brilliant!)... This version has a shorter contact-plate, which also I suspect means it makes better contact than other clones, which can touch at-a-side possible, instead of flat/full-connection like mine. Also all screws are copper, whereas some are silver-plated and others SS, on the other clones.

Sorry for off-topic and ramblings again, lol Maybe it can benefit someone hopefully, looking for a cheap(18 bucks!) great dual parallel mech...

focalecig.com - Abaddon Style Dual 18650 Box Mod - Silver

Note, it looks like they have the same model on ft for 15.85, and 14.27 with code 'RMBBUST'. I don't know for sure though, as they don't post pics of the contact-plate under the button, which is copper on mine, and plated brass on other clones:
$15.85 Abaddon Box Styled 2*18650 Mechanical Mod - aluminum at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

It tempting, but boxes are iffy in airports (then again, tubes get the stink eye to), and I genuinely like tube mods. Plus, dont feel like carrying around a screw driver to change the batteries. It is tempting though, I was looking at the Abaddon when I was shopping for a box.