SMPL Mod (clone) discussion

[sonicbomb]

Yes the vinegar in the ketchup, the viscosity helps to keep it in contact with the surface better than just vinegar on it's own. I'm pretty sure salt acts only as an abrasive not chemically. I've thought of supercharging ketchup with more vinegar, but haven't found it necessary. Of course mainly on the threads, but who doesn't like a totally shiny mod? Works on SS too, the vinegar takes care of the oxidization, the toothbrush gets the grime.
I'm not familiar with all those products, but in my experience the only thing that belongs in your threads is another spotlessly clean thread.I did resolve a hot button issue once using Noalox, but it gunked it up terribly. I resolved it permanently with a really good clean.
Also don't neglect the threads and positive 510 pin on your atty either.

I've said this before - mech mods are archaic, inefficient and in need of lots of maintenance. But that doesn't stop me loving using them.

 

[mhertz]

Thanks for your reply and explanation, mate!

Ahh, I haden't thought about the viscosity difference and benefit, with regards to ketchup vs. vinegar/salt.

Salt is added to the acidic solution for highly speeding up the process. It's a chemical thing.

I saw once on youtube an old penny/coin being dipped for a few seconds in a vinegar bath and it didn't change much(as it was to short time for acting), and then the same was done with vinegar with salt and there where a big change. The more salt that can be disolved in the vinegar(or lemon), the better.

Yeah, a shiny mod is nice, but I don't care so much about looks to be honest and just wants an as efficiently performing mod as possibly and hence, I religiously clean threads and contacts, usually on many mods in a row, and I use more time on it than needed, because of OCD issues with things I care about, and so I thought it would be nice if once in a while I could skip the body step if wanted, if just for looks, but if it also hinderes performance, then I wouldn't. Note, i'm pretty sure it hinders performance, but I meant if it was neglible i.e. 0.001v difference etc. The threads and contacts I would of course never skimp on.

Good point on the atty cleaning too, which I think is an often overlooked step...

Yeah, I agree what you're stating with regards to e.g. noalox, but I was just wanting to having to clean contacts/threads less often and also get to possibly get better connection on not perfect tolerances and also less arching on contact-points possibly...

 

[sig-cmt]

NOALOX is messy stuff. Go with NyoGel 756G/758G or NO-OX-ID if you must treat your threads. FYI, I would clean the mod in its entirety versus only cleaning the contact points. Skin effect may play a role in how DC power is distributed through a mod due to changing current draw and its associated magnetic field through a pull. I use oxalic acid in the form of Bar Keepers Friend for cleaning mods and their contacts as it is far stronger than an acetic acid + salt solution.

 

[mhertz]

Thanks alot, mate! Great information! Appreciated for sure! Btw, do you think propylalcohol(propanol) is better or worse than vinegar/salt(or e.g. oxalic acid)? Also, what did you mean specifically by: "[...]if you must treat your threads"? I don't _have_ to at all, but was wondering what you others think i.e. if I was missing out on something?

Btw, @All, I was thinking about something also, with regards to hot buttons...

Every mechanical connection carrying voltage and then suddently breaking the connection, will arc, in terms of sparks, and the more power used(lower resistance), the more sparking(and then arching/pitting etc.) When running very low builds, then arcing is happening in heightened ratio, and that would also heat the button

Anyway, just a thought upon a second reason for hot-buttons... I've been rocking my copper smpl, with a low build, and not hot button yet... I think that harder toothbrush also helped alot to be honest...

 

[sonicbomb]

That build with that battery is plain dangerous. 42 amps from a cell with a 20 amp CDR is asking to get your face blown off. Do you understand why?

 

[mhertz]

Thanks for the thought... I don't wanna get into the CDR/pulse debate, please I'll edit it out of my post after second thought

Edit: Well, no reason to, as the resistance is already deductable from your math...

Edit2: Did it nonetheless...

 

[Bad Ninja]

Thanks for the thought... I don't wanna get into the CDR/pulse debate, please I'll edit it out of my post after second thought

Edit: Well, no reason to, as the resistance is already deductable from your math...

Edit2: Did it nonetheless...

It's not a debate.
Some people argue who don't understand why manufacturers even list pulse ratings.
Bottom line, pushing batteries beyond CDR (especially in a vaping application) overstresses the cells and can cause them to heat up and fail.
It's not safe, and anyone that thinks pushing a single 18650 to 40a is safe simply doesn't understand what they are doing.

You are an adult, so you can do what you like, but dont try to act like it's safe because it isn't.

 

[mhertz]

No, it's not, that's why I don't recommend or endorse it. It's exactly like walking over a traffic-stop, btw. Do you walk over when red while talking in cell phone, or do you pay attention to what you're doing and follow rules.

Nothing is safe without precaution...

Pulse rates are obviously not safe, because they have no standard, either with pulse-rates or breaks, and button's can get stuck. These are the exact reasons they aren't endorsed.

However, if I personally adhere to pulse-rates/breaks from trustworthy source, while not taking the mod out/unattended so you don't notice the button maybe get stuck, and are ready to fix any issues, like i've done several times, then for ME, I consider that safe. That's not saying it's safe in general. Cdr is a safety net for these exact precautions. When taking these precautions, I risk one thing, and one thing only, to use more money on batteries. The cdr is a great tool for safety, but i'm getting tired of people thinking that the battery/mod will explode if going over it WHEN taking the precautions that the cdr exactly is meant to make up for...

I don't go over cdr personally for being a smart ..., but because i've become a big fan of very hot dense short 1-2 sec bursts, instead of the more standard longer drags... I've tried alot to cut down on the power, for battery-life and cycle-life, but the higher ohm builds i'm capable of making just aren't satisfying me as much anymore unforunetly...

Lets just agree to disagree on this one, Ninja and sonicbomb

Btw, after thinking about it, then although I hate having to moderate myself because of others, then I can see that there's no reason to mention that I run such low builds, because there's a chance someone misunderstands it as being generally safe, so I will not mention my low ohm usages again Honestly I only posted it, late at night, because I was so happy about finding my best build yet, lol! I've not used such small id for a long time, and defenetelly not with such low wire, but I was just so enthused about the enhanced great ramp-up/acting-time/warmer, by lowering id...

 

[Bad Ninja]

No, it's not, that's why I don't recommend or endorse it. It's exactly like walking over a traffic-stop, btw. Do you walk over when red while talking in cell phone, or do you pay attention to what you're doing and follow rules.

Nothing is safe without precaution...

Pulse rates are obviously not safe, because they have no standard, either with pulse-rates or breaks, and button's can get stuck. These are the exact reasons they aren't endorsed.

However, if I personally adhere to pulse-rates/breaks from trustworthy source, while not taking the mod out/unattended so you don't notice the button maybe get stuck, and are ready to fix any issues, like i've done several times, then for ME, I consider that safe. That's not saying it's safe in general. Cdr is a safety net for these exact precautions. When taking these precautions, I risk one thing, and one thing only, to use more money on batteries. The cdr is a great tool for safety, but i'm getting tired of people thinking that the battery/mod will explode if going over it WHEN taking the precautions that the cdr exactly is meant to make up for...

I don't go over cdr personally for being a smart ..., but because i've become a big fan of very hot dense short 1-2 sec bursts, instead of the more standard longer drags... I've tried alot to cut down on the power, for battery-life and cycle-life, but the higher ohm builds i'm capable of making just aren't satisfying me as much anymore unforunetly...

Lets just agree to disagree on this one, Ninja and sonicbomb

Btw, after thinking about it, then although I hate having to moderate myself because of others, then I can see that there's no reason to mention that I run such low builds, because there's a chance someone misunderstands it as being generally safe, so I will not mention my low ohm usages again Honestly I only posted it, late at night, because I was so happy about finding my best build yet, lol! I've not used such small id for a long time, and defenetelly not with such low wire, but I was just so enthused about the enhanced great ramp-up/acting-time/warmer, by lowering id...

It's your face, not mine.

If you enjoy "hot dense vapes" the smart thing would be to use a multi-cell device.

The not smart thing to do would be to build beyond the battery's limits to get a tasty vape.

The really not smart thing is to endorse such activity.

 

[Cellodick]

No, it's not, that's why I don't recommend or endorse it. It's exactly like walking over a traffic-stop, btw. Do you walk over when red while talking in cell phone, or do you pay attention to what you're doing and follow rules.

Nothing is safe without precaution...

Pulse rates are obviously not safe, because they have no standard, either with pulse-rates or breaks, and button's can get stuck. These are the exact reasons they aren't endorsed.

However, if I personally adhere to pulse-rates/breaks from trustworthy source, while not taking the mod out/unattended so you don't notice the button maybe get stuck, and are ready to fix any issues, like i've done several times, then for ME, I consider that safe. That's not saying it's safe in general. Cdr is a safety net for these exact precautions. When taking these precautions, I risk one thing, and one thing only, to use more money on batteries. The cdr is a great tool for safety, but i'm getting tired of people thinking that the battery/mod will explode if going over it WHEN taking the precautions that the cdr exactly is meant to make up for...

I don't go over cdr personally for being a smart ..., but because i've become a big fan of very hot dense short 1-2 sec bursts, instead of the more standard longer drags... I've tried alot to cut down on the power, for battery-life and cycle-life, but the higher ohm builds i'm capable of making just aren't satisfying me as much anymore unforunetly...

Lets just agree to disagree on this one, Ninja and sonicbomb

Btw, after thinking about it, then although I hate having to moderate myself because of others, then I can see that there's no reason to mention that I run such low builds, because there's a chance someone misunderstands it as being generally safe, so I will not mention my low ohm usages again Honestly I only posted it, late at night, because I was so happy about finding my best build yet, lol! I've not used such small id for a long time, and defenetelly not with such low wire, but I was just so enthused about the enhanced great ramp-up/acting-time/warmer, by lowering id...

Time for you to get a series mod.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mhertz]

Alright, i'll bite! Since you obviously fully disregarded everything I said, then please state to me EXACTLY how I fear overheating/venting/terminal-runaway, when not letting the cell overheat, because I take 1-2secs pulls atmost once a minute, which the cell has been tested to function within!!! The risk of button-sticking, as stated, i'm prepared against... [EDIT: Not every minute, but for a few cycles with longer breaks...]

Jeez...

The "batteries limits???" These are continous limits FOR safety, not pulse limits...

( ) I'm not ...... off, but frustrated about being misunderstood as an electric-fence-pisser, lol...

Edit2: @Cellodick Indeed you make a good point with that... Also, @All, as stated before, I practically almost only use dual parallel mech boxes...

Btw, I wouldn't take a to-me unknown/researched cell and do the same with... Even though I take big precaution i.e. a rag nearby to screw atty off if stuck button/malfunction, and not leaving unattended/going-out, then I don't know the cell capabilities and which would be highly dangerous. Also, a known "good cell", but with the before-stated precautions not in place, would likewise be highly dangerous... Everything is not in black and white, there are edge-cases/grey-areas afterall...

 

[Bad Ninja]

Alright, i'll bite! Since you obviously fully disregarded everything I said, then please state to me EXACTLY how I fear overheating/venting/terminal-runaway, when not letting the cell overheat, because I take 1-2secs pulls atmost once a minute, which the cell has been tested to function within!!! The risk of button-sticking, as stated, i'm prepared against... [EDIT: Not every minute, but for a few cycles with longer breaks...]

Jeez...

The "batteries limits???" These are continous limits FOR safety, not pulse limits...

( ) I'm not ...... off, but frustrated about being misunderstood as an electric-fence-pisser, lol...

Edit2: @Cellodick Indeed you make a good point with that... Also, @All, as stated before, I practically almost only use dual parallel mech boxes...

Btw, I wouldn't take a to-me unknown/researched cell and do the same with... Even though I take big precaution i.e. a rag nearby to screw atty off if stuck button/malfunction, and not leaving unattended/going-out, then I don't know the cell capabilities and which would be highly dangerous. Also, a known "good cell", but with the before-stated precautions not in place, would likewise be highly dangerous... Everything is not in black and white, there are edge-cases/grey-areas afterall...

Translated:
"Don't worry, I go beyond the safe limits only a little bit. It's recommended not to by the manufacturer, and every qualified tester, but trust me, I know what I'm doing".

Look, you are a grown adult and can do anything you like.
I won't agree it's safe, nor will I advise anyone reading this to ever do it.

I personally think it's an un necessary risk when there are safer options like a parallel mod ( same results, same hot vape, same build, but safe with two batteries).

To each their own.

 

[mhertz]

I agree that there's no reason to, when safer methods exist, which doesn't take the same precautions to be OK, and which stresses the cells lesser. I don't agree with your translation at all, though... I don't overheat my cells "just-a-little-bit" at all... Which is my entire point in all this... If I did, I would obviously agree!

Anyway, as you stated to each there own...

 

[sig-cmt]

Smalley wave springs...Interesting. Offhand, I am set to pick up a few 18g Argentium 935 silver compression springs this week. Eight for the Raptor and eight for the Roundhouse. Put in an order a month ago to have them custom wound and destressed by a local spring shop. Was going to commission a sample run of beryllium copper springs from them, but may contact Smalley to see what they can do in terms of minimum runs and pricing.

 

[sig-cmt]

@mhertz: If you tend to punish your cells, all I can recommend to you in terms of minimizing risk is to be wary of the IR of individual units. You can accomplish this with a good RC charger (most reputable models support IR), a Li-ion charger with an IR metering feature such as the Opus BT-C3100, or with a dedicated ESR metering device. Also, periodically verify that your cells are holding capacity and voltage. With IR and capacity numbers in hand, you can calculate a true C rating for a cell which you can then use to make an informed decision on how hard you want to push it (lower IR + higher capacity = lower risk).

 

[mhertz]

Thanks for sound advice, sig-cmt! Appreciated!

While I fully agree with your proposal, then we also just need to separate C-rates, which are continuous rates, from 1-2 sec puls once/twise a minute, for 5 minutes, and then 15-30-60 mins break. Again, this only becomes OK FOR ME, when making sure that there's no possibility for running more than a few secs, by my used precautions(not leaving unattended/ready to screw off atty/not talking out e.g. pockets)...

Btw, not ONLY trusting trustworthy tests from trustworthy people, but i've in the habit of often quickly checking my used cells for temperature, and it goes without saying that I never push them to hot, as else I wouldn't have done it. I'm no daredevil, afterall, despite other thinking of me as such...

Second, I use dual parallel boxes 95% of time... Sorry, just have a slight need for defending myself on this, and not specifically at you...

Anyway, in another post, you stated to me that "if I had to ..." about using thread-"gels"... Why did you state that, please...

I did read some other person stating that the mod would last less long if doing such... Is it bad for threads in your opinion...

Also, do you think bar keepers friend is better than isopropanol? I'm often afraid of using buffing-cremes and other solutions, because they leave a protective layer, which possibly inhibits current transfer??? Unless specifically made for contacts of course...

Personally, I'm most interested in finding a "gel" that inhibits arcing on contact points the most... I don't really like sanding contacts, atleast not continually, as they loose size and the "screw-line" on ones with such... Some say the various solutions does work for arcing and others state they make no difference and arcing is inevitable with mechanical contacts, especially low resistance, which does make sense...

Btw, one of the reasons for that I love my abaddon, is that the button/spring is isolated out from the circuit

Thanks...

Edit: Holly crap, I just looked up the roundhouse mod and am just amazed... Can't wait till a good clone comes out... I'll guess it's the hardest hitting single cell mod out there... A true smpl v2.0 in my opinion... I love the design, never seen anything that great... 24mm copper, one-piece tube, pinless-510, one-piece contact, no freakin' c-clip, lol...

Btw, am liking alot my 10 bucks copper smpl from fc currently... I don't know if the smpl original v1.1 switch is also like this, but mine has fewer threads than my other smpl's and shorter throw and also stabler button. It does go a little bit into the tube, like 1mm, but it doesn't matter for me and the short throw is great. I haden't used it very much until recently, but it sure is a nice hard-hitting mod...

 

[sig-cmt]

Personally, I treat threads with various compounds and have done so since my flashlight modding days. What I meant earlier was that if you were to treat your threads, that the aforementioned would be some of the products best suited for the purpose(s) of sealing/dampening/lubrication while limiting loss of conductivity. Anecdotal evidence found across ECF and elsewhere tends to support the argument that treating contact faces tends to mitigate arcing by filling gaps in the circuit. Versus isopropanol, Bar Keepers Friend (BKF) is superior as a mild polish and tarnish remover. Included surfactants and wetting agents also make it effective against grease and oil. BKF does not leave a protective layer on materials it was meant to be used on. Once a supported surface has been cleaned and properly rinsed, it can be eaten off of .

 

[Bad Ninja]

You realize the mods will trash this thread and move it to the "not recommended" thread if you keep advising vaping beyond battery CDR, right?

 

[mhertz]

[Censored outburst-lol]? Can't you comprehend the distinction between personal opinions about self-usage scenarious and advising something! On the other hand, I agree, as the mods probably can't either and will shut up/stop defending myself against stigmation...

--- Edit: Hmm, my last "defending-paragraph" in previous post(not this one) after sig-cmt's reply was entirely unneeded, I agree(as he didn't stated I was wrong persay, so no need to defend anything, but just advicing me), but I just didn't like your specific wording with one word specifically... You could have just stated, "shut up about this..."(without the "advicing" part), which had been suited/allright imho ---

sig-cmt - Thanks alot, I really appreciate your thorough comprehensive advice/opinion... Rhubarb... Interesting...

 

[mhertz]

Anyway, to get back on track( ) with this thread, then I will just add a little addendum to my previously mentioned and recommended copper smpl from fc... The copper looks nice, but the brass switch honestly looks a little like it's not the best quality brass... I don't know 100%, and don't really know much about brass either, but it just looks pretty dull and e.g. not at all like the infinite switch i've seen vids off. Maybe it's just some clearcoat on those better looking ones, I dunno... It's the least "quality" looking brass material of the 3 smpl's I own, but however, it hits really good, so I guess it cannot be all bad afterall...