So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[TWISTED VICTOR]

(Apologies for the long autobio. post. )

No apologies allowed . It's good for all when someone comes along and has the ability to fuel this fire DVap started. Important work swept under the carpet of FDA, BT and Big Pharma. Recently I read your posts in the "quiting" section about anti-depressant use and saw the names of all the ones I had previously been prescribed. Seems like only yesterday that I was enduring the "brain shock" associated with the withdrawl from them. That same day I saw your name appear at the bottom of this thread and hoped you'd stay the course. Welcome to the family. Things have slowed a bit, but the handful of us have decided to use this thread to kick around ideas and a little trial and error, or just have fun when all else fails. We're glad you're here...

 

[a2dcovert]

Ditto on that TV. I bet there are thousands of US out there.

My last day at home by myself. I have to go back to work tomorrow and then there's Christmas coming up.

Just now I just finished listening to Willie Nelson for about an hour, twin Nordic Frosted mini's and vaping all at the same time. In fact I would hit the pass through until it got too hot and switch off to the prodigy. Gonna have to install a heat sink on that atty.

 

[a2dcovert]

Madame Psychosis,

Thanks for coming over here. I did a read on the thread TV mentioned. I am going to see if I can find a psychiatrist and go about this the proper way. My GP has me on the "drug" of the month "Pristiq" but it isn't helping. I think I need a good psychiatrist that can prescribe based on my current condition and needs. Hopefully I will be able to find the doc I need. I will know if my detailed description of what I have learned has a positive reaction in him/her. If they blow me off I will do the same to them.

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Madame Psychosis,

Thanks for coming over here. I did a read on the thread TV mentioned. I am going to see if I can find a psychiatrist and go about this the proper way. My GP has me on the "drug" of the month "Pristiq" but it isn't helping. I think I need a good psychiatrist that can prescribe based on my current condition and needs. Hopefully I will be able to find the doc I need. I will know if my detailed description of what I have learned has a positive reaction in him/her. If they blow me off I will do the same to them.

Glad to be here!
Good psychiatrists are hard to find in many places. Good ones that are a fit for your needs, even harder. But the right one is worth his/her weight in gold, so good luck. One thing's for sure, GPs aren't skilled prescribers with psych medicines, and they're a bit more likely to go with what is popular rather than tailor to an individual. I've found GPs are also somewhat likelier to push you to quit tobacco at all costs.

Don't know if you know this, but Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) is the active metabolite of Effexor (venlafaxine). Regular-release Effexor's off patent protection, and Wyeth came up with Pristiq for the drug reps to push -- drug-of-the-month, indeed. Side effect profile is lower with Pristiq, some say, and there are a few other possible advantages. Anecdotally, discontinuation seems to be shorter and easier for Pristiq than it is for 'Fex.


Oh, and on a somewhat-related note, IANAN posted about oral GABA supplementation earlier....
The important thing to remember about supplements (aside from the all-important drug interactions) is that they or their metabolites need to cross the blood-brain barrier to be psychoactive. Oral GABA does nothing because it can't cross the BBB. You could mainline it and it wouldn't work. It is a placebo. (Study, abstract summary, basic answer.) Finding GABA analogs that can cross the BBB is a large field of study and patents, because GABA imbalances are inherent in so many conditions. If oral GABA really did influence brain GABA levels, it would be an Rx-only substance like benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, et al) or pregabalin (Neurontin) are.

 

[DVap]

I've tried some of those SSRI's in the past to counteract my tendency to get nasty when stressed. Most of them were worse than what they were trying to treat.

At any rate.. I just picked up another 80 grams of dark blue label NAS... ready to go when the inspiration strikes.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Oral GABA does nothing because it can't cross the BBB. You could mainline it and it wouldn't work. It is a placebo. (Study, abstract summary, basic answer.)

Explains why TB hasn't noticed anything at the 1500mg dose.

 

[a2dcovert]

Good psychiatrists are hard to find in many places. Good ones that are a fit for your needs, even harder. But the right one is worth his/her weight in gold, so good luck. One thing's for sure, GPs aren't skilled prescribers with psych medicines, and they're a bit more likely to go with what is popular rather than tailor to an individual. I've found GPs are also somewhat likelier to push you to quit tobacco at all costs.

Don't know if you know this, but Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) is the active metabolite of Effexor (venlafaxine). Regular-release Effexor's off patent protection, and Wyeth came up with Pristiq for the drug reps to push -- drug-of-the-month, indeed. Side effect profile is lower with Pristiq, some say, and there are a few other possible advantages. Anecdotally, discontinuation seems to be shorter and easier for Pristiq than it is for 'Fex.

Thanks for this information. The more I learn the better. But I know that doctors do not like for patients to self diagnose or self-medicate. But at least I can challenge his recommendations. I think I will be able to hold out until I get to see a doctor. Holidays will delay any appointment I'm sure.

If I don't get a good psychiatrists I may turn to my Pulmonologist. He also has a specialty of internal medacine and may want to help. I know he will be pleased that I have quit smoking and no longer need to take any breathing medications. He will have a very vested interest in helping a smoker kick the habit.

Anyway it helps knowing I have a plan.

 

[Madame Psychosis]

I've tried some of those SSRI's in the past to counteract my tendency to get nasty when stressed. Most of them were worse than what they were trying to treat.

Sorry to hear they weren't any good. Psychopharm understands these drugs a lot less than we're led to believe by practitioners or advertisements and often enough, they miss the desired mark and mess other things up instead... The more I learn about this stuff, the less I think I know.

This may be an idea that has already been considered and discounted, but it came to me the other day... I'm just curious why it wouldn't work:
Would it be possible to use a vaporizer (like the Iolite or Volcano) to vaporize tobacco at a controlled temperature, draw the resulting vapor out, rapidly chill and suspend it? It would be a process much like creating liquid smoke. Vaporizing at 180-200 C was used in this study (only abstract is available free) and showed minimal exposure to combustion products, at least from the, er, non-tobacco test substance. Those who use vaporizers at home are prone to overheating and exposure to the more harmful compounds, as I understand it, so this kind of a process could be better-controlled for a purer end product.

 

[TropicalBob]

Ha. Believe it or not, I tried that condensation collection from quickly chilled smoke. Talk about a miniscule amount! I didn't get enough for one good drip.

Someone with lab quality equipment might do better, however. I began, as you note, by researching Liquid Smoke, and one thing led to another ...

TV: That GABA info is ... disturbing. No, I can't say it's helped me, but I continue to finish off the bottle I BOUGHT!!! Geez. I hate wasting money.

 

[rickghouse]

Another willing Guinea Pig, DVap, been following along with interest

I volunteered before you

But so did hundreds of others, I suspect.

Alas, the illusive quest for relief. The thought that some day the constricting claws in my chest could be a thing of the past!

Am I kidding myself?

 

[olderthandirt]

...
Alas, the illusive quest for relief. The thought that some day the constricting claws in my chest could be a thing of the past!

Am I kidding myself?

Get ye to the snus bar Rick! General Wintergreen spells relief for me

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Get ye to the snus bar Rick! General Wintergreen spells relief for me

Gotta give you props OTD... your snus advocacy has finally pushed me to try it.
I'm looking at a small order of four cans: Mocca Pomegranate Mini (dang, the Macchiato was limited-edition and gone!), General Dry Mini Mint, Fellinni Mint Mini, and Offroad Chocolate Raspberry (thought I'd try one regular portion too). Does that sound like a good try-out for someone who doesn't want full tobacco flavors and can't take tons of nic?

(I also figured that if I don't like them in my mouth, I'll stuff the minis + PG in an 801 cart and see what happens...)

I can't say I imagined myself snusing, as a card-carrying member of the skirt-and-heels set... But whatever keeps the demons out, y'know?

 

[Elf]

TV, sorry if I missed something, but I can't find anywhere - where did you order the 100mg liquid from?

 

[olderthandirt]

Gotta give you props OTD... your snus advocacy has finally pushed me to try it.
I'm looking at a small order of four cans: Mocca Pomegranate Mini (dang, the Macchiato was limited-edition and gone!), General Dry Mini Mint, Fellinni Mint Mini, and Offroad Chocolate Raspberry (thought I'd try one regular portion too). Does that sound like a good try-out for someone who doesn't want full tobacco flavors and can't take tons of nic?

(I also figured that if I don't like them in my mouth, I'll stuff the minis + PG in an 801 cart and see what happens...)

I can't say I imagined myself snusing, as a card-carrying member of the skirt-and-heels set... But whatever keeps the demons out, y'know?

And the props are accepted with thanks Madame. There are more than a few ladies that snus, your joining good company!

The Mocca is the only one I've used so I can't speak to flavor on the others. I really enjoy the Granatapple, mild fruity, almost but not quite tart, nice. I was unaware that the Macchiato was a limited edition 8-o
I am now officially bummed!
So keep that in mind as the Off Road is a limited edition also!

The General at 4mg portions, Mocca at 5mg and the Fellinni and Off Road both at 8mg would seem a good spread to see what works for you with respect to nicotine content for sure.

Hope you enjoy when they arrive, we'll look to hear your impressions!

He just said "look to hear"?...

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

And I heard ya lookin', too .

 

[Imboden]

So I confused. I have been smoking 30mg ecopure because I don't feel like I get much nicotine from anything less. Why after 2 weeks on this stuff do I have a Marlboro light and get lightheaded?? I only smoked 10-15 cigs a day before my ecig why would I even need 30mg?

 

[a2dcovert]

So I confused. I have been smoking 30mg ecopure because I don't feel like I get much nicotine from anything less. Why after 2 weeks on this stuff do I have a Marlboro light and get lightheaded?? I only smoked 10-15 cigs a day before my ecig why would I even need 30mg?

Well my friend you are asking the 64000.00 question. You are in the right place and asking the right question. The simple answer is that nicotine is not the only addictive element in cigarettes. I know it is a lot to read but most of your answers can be found in this forum. But, we are still seeking a solution to that problem. Some have been successful with suppliments like snus and Stonewall tablets. Welcome and read on!

 

[Imboden]

Well my friend you are asking the 64000.00 question. You are in the right place and asking the right question. The simple answer is that nicotine is not the only addictive element in cigarettes. I know it is a lot to read but most of your answers can be found in this forum. But, we are still seeking a solution to that problem. Some have been successful with suppliments link snus and Stonewall tablets. Welsome and read on!

Will do thank you for your kind answer!

 

[olderthandirt]

And I heard ya lookin', too .

Kind of a dull squeaky sound wasn't it...

So I confused. I have been smoking 30mg ecopure because I don't feel like I get much nicotine from anything less. Why after 2 weeks on this stuff do I have a Marlboro light and get lightheaded?? I only smoked 10-15 cigs a day before my ecig why would I even need 30mg?

Just throwing out a guess... the light-head was from carbon monoxide from the analog, something we don't get from vaping.

A guess mind you...

 

[TropicalBob]

I'm telling ya ... we're going to see test results soon that claim we get very little nicotine from vapor. Very, very little. So little that it doesn't even begin to rattle our cages. This despite claims of many to have "overdosed" on e-liquid vapor.

I talked to one guy who commissioned a test and he just laughed at how little nicotine was in that vapor. But he wouldn't e-mail me the test results, cause I want to see for myself.

Bill Godshall has warned us that results are coming soon that will place e-cigs in a placebo category.

Course, he hasn't tried WTA. Or a soaked snus.