So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[unmatter]

I will be glad to offer my proof. That is no placebo that agrivates the hell out of my GI track when I over do it with nic strength. I have tried twice to vape 36mg and both times my acid reflux red lined and I developed gastric ulcers and GERD. I know that the nicotine alone wasn't responsible but it sure agrivated the situation. Back at 24mg I can control the acid with medication. At 36mg I wasn't able to make it on 2 seperate attempts.

I'll tell you, GERD for someone who has experienced real angina is a scarry event. Feels just like a heart attack.

I started getting acid reflux when I was taking chantix to stop smoking. At the time I had to pop antacid with every dose. After a few weeks of this I gave away the rest of my chantix, but the acid reflux remained.

What eventually got rid of it was whole leaf aloe vera juice in 5:1 concentrated form taken 2x daily (a mouthful per dose - last dose before bed). The theory being that the valve above the stomach gets damaged (allowing acid back up in the esophagus), and the aloe works to heal the damaged tissue. Also, DGL (licorice chewables) or slippery elm taken before meals helps coat the lining to reduce the damaging effects of the acid.

You might want to give these a try if you haven't already.

As for the nic in the vapor, I think the New Zealand study confirmed its' presence. Don't recall the specifics, though.

Enjoy the hollidays all!

 

[exogenesis]

Wasn't having a go at you TB, just at the implied claim by the 3rd party
that there's little or no nic. in the vapour.

OK, would love to see both the methodology & the data,
then I can disagree with them

I think we can all do what ever we can, I guess every little helps.

Certainly no single vaper or even supplier is going to be able to afford to
do a directed 'research' study where components are quantified properly
(although Totally Wicked may be doing just that, but aimed more at NRT
effectiveness, rather than levels/times of all the relevant parts of the vaping story).

DVap & myself have done some, but without available proper lab. analysis
equipment it's all going to be a slow accumulation of little bits here & there
I guess

btw
Merry Christmas !

 

[TropicalBob]

Merry Christmas to you all, too. It's my second Christmas now with e-cigs. And I want a third, a fourth, etc.

I do see hope, BTW. I long ago concluded the present situation was not sustainable from a regulatory standpoint. What we have to do is find a legal way to skirt regulations. It can be done, and we'll do it without Tea Parties and torch-carrying posses marching on the FDA headquarters.

 

[a2dcovert]

I started getting acid reflux when I was taking chantix to stop smoking. At the time I had to pop antacid with every dose. After a few weeks of this I gave away the rest of my chantix, but the acid reflux remained.

What eventually got rid of it was whole leaf aloe vera juice in 5:1 concentrated form taken 2x daily (a mouthful per dose - last dose before bed). The theory being that the valve above the stomach gets damaged (allowing acid back up in the esophagus), and the aloe works to heal the damaged tissue. Also, DGL (licorice chewables) or slippery elm taken before meals helps coat the lining to reduce the damaging effects of the acid.

You might want to give these a try if you haven't already.

As for the nic in the vapor, I think the New Zealand study confirmed its' presence. Don't recall the specifics, though.

Enjoy the hollidays all!

Thanks for your input, that's good advice. I wonder why the medical comunity doesn't make that type of info available.

 

[a2dcovert]

Merry Christmas to you all, too. It's my second Christmas now with e-cigs. And I want a third, a fourth, etc.

I do see hope, BTW. I long ago concluded the present situation was not sustainable from a regulatory standpoint. What we have to do is find a legal way to skirt regulations. It can be done, and we'll do it without Tea Parties and torch-carrying posses marching on the FDA headquarters.

You're right TB we can just do as they do and look for loop holes. There's a way to fight back without confrontation. I think quiet and below the radar will work.

 

[a2dcovert]

Forgot, Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[rickghouse]

We know here that the problem isn't that e-cigs don't deliver nicotine, the problem is that e-cigs deliver nicotine, and only nicotine, quite well.

Yes, my 36mg vg gives me a nicotine rush, a slight headache and a tingly feeling in my head. I know I'm getting the nic, but the satisfaction level is very slightly above zero.

Rick.

 

[TropicalBob]

I was non-stop using Dvap's 48mg WTA liquid last night. Also using various snus portions, concurrently. I virtually became drunk from what I was believe was a nicotine overdose -- yet I wanted a cigarette the entire time. I actually went downstairs, lit and puffed a cigar, just to get some direct tobacco taste and feel.

I am really, really, seriously puzzled by all this. The only firm conclusion to me is that e-smoking with nicotine does not replicate cigarette smoking sufficiently to remain a long-term viable substitute for a 50-year habit/addiction. Maybe that's just me. My problem must be 100% psychological.

I may never be content with any of this ....

But I am healthier by all measures. Is that sufficient to shut up my brain five years from now when it keeps insisting I'm a smoker? Right now, I still depend on weakening willpower to beat back the demons.

To me, something is still missing.

 

[olderthandirt]

Good morning T Bob.

Bad night apparently. Could the season have a role in it?

I'm such a depressive humbug, tomorrow, the 26th, is my personal favorite day of the year! What to me is is not much more than commercialism gone mad under the guise of a religious event is relatively passed on that day. After Christmas sales not withstanding...

That's me at least TB.

Given that you have espoused the variety of ways available to replace smoking with reduced harm to such great affect for others, I certainly hope you find your means of satisfaction sir.

Peace

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Good morning/afternoon to all, too.
Darkest time of the year, the demons are out to play.

I'm going off to vape like crazy in a closed-off side room from the fam. (The vapor is apparently irritating...) Wish the snus had arrived!

Wishing you all greater satisfaction in the new year!

 

[Mister]

That's rough TropicalBob. I wish I could think of something you haven't already tried. I think it has to be either something missing (either something removed during processing to snus or produced in the process of burning a cigarette), or something which must be absorbed in the lungs instead of orally. Are there any other possibilities left? I can't think of anything else. Cigarette paper? The smell of a loaded ashtray? I sure hope you find it soon.

 

[Stubby]

OTD: I'm with you on the Christmas thing. Things got better after the family decided to axe the gifts. Guess I'm not doing my share of contributing to the economy doing this festive season. We're off the my brothers place in a few minutes for dinner, and that's it for the holidays.

I've been using only snus as of late. My nose is not agreeing with the nasal snuff in the winter and I have long since given up on the PV. I still miss the cigarettes at times and have come to the conclusion that I always will to some degree. I have no doubt that for me what I miss is the quick hit of WTA. Nothing like taking a drag and getting instant feedback. A big part is also the big spike of nicotine that can never be replicated with snus, or anything else that I know of. It's something I can live with, hopefully long term. It's the price I pay for getting off the toxic cigarettes and feeling better overall. I'm not that uptight about occasionally having a cigarette if I really feel like it, though I haven't had one for many months.

 

[a2dcovert]

I'm such a depressive humbug, tomorrow, the 26th, is my personal favorite day of the year! What to me is is not much more than commercialism gone mad under the guise of a religious event is relatively passed on that day. After Christmas sales not withstanding...

This is scary OTD. Almost describes me to the T. I don't dare tell anyone at home that I feel this way.

TB you are not the bearer of good news. I'm looking for you guys to lead the way and demonstrate success. Guess this will have to be our Tobaccholics anonymous support group. I'm Kevin and I'm a tobaccholic.

 

[sunset]

TropicalBob,

I was non-stop using Dvap's 48mg WTA liquid last night. Also using various snus portions, concurrently. I virtually became drunk from what I was believe was a nicotine overdose -- yet I wanted a cigarette the entire time. I actually went downstairs, lit and puffed a cigar, just to get some direct tobacco taste and feel.

Honestly, I was looking at the same thing today...intense craving for a cigarette! I almost felt like when I chained smoked and still would crave
a cigarette not long after I smoke one...and mine is a 40 year 'habit' as they call it (always hated that term) And this was not that long after a snus either, which I found troubling.

I'm pretty sure mine has nothing to do with Holidays. But, I am looking at the last couple of days where I started taking more snus, almost doubling because it felt like the right thing. I have to wonder after today, could I be readdicting myself to higher WTA...hmmm - just wondering so I'm watching that, if that is even possible and maybe it is.

But, what made the intense cravings go away was a big dinner. Well, that's not good either because I don't want food to be the answer. But, I sure have had a cigarette on my mind intensely for hours, whereas before I started doubling the snus - I hadn't for weeks and weeks.

Well, I'm going to watch it and sure wish there was more research on all this.

Off to get a snus, after all it is after dinner

 

[exogenesis]

That's a bit of a bugger TB, if snus + WTA don't do it, then what's left ?

Maybe it's all down to expectations (of the WTA) for you,
or possibly you really miss the carbon monoxide spike ?
Or other MAOI/other effects that tarry smoke imbues.

I guess you're at the extreme end of the nicotine/other need spectrum,
compared to most it seems you have a serious need.

Perhaps it really is something as simple as giving the body a little
fat/oil to get the combined satisfaction
- certainly a ciggie after food is a damn site more satisfying for me.

(yes I still smoke, but very probably am going to set up a WTA
making device in the new year, so your news is a bit unsettling).

 

[TropicalBob]

It seems to come in waves, guys, like nausea when you're sick. Today was NOT a bad day at all. I partied with a variety of people, many of whom smoked cigarettes. They stunk.

I think I depend on nicotine balance, as perhaps many do. I need a certain nicotine level (or WTA) to be content, serene, pleasant company. When I strike that balance -- using snus, dissolvables, nasal snuff, e-cigs -- I feel fine and I'm fun to be around. When that balance is missed, I'm irritatable, depressed at the state of the world, and very negative. I was way out of balance yesterday and I don't know why.

Today, I continued the 48mg WTA (very powerful stuff, DVap), and used fewer snus and dissolvables than normal. At the party, sitting out with the smokers (three of whom have bought and tried e-cigs and FAILED with them), I enjoyed a pipe, then switched to the Kissbox with 48mg. At home, after dinner, I did another pipe.

Whatever, it was a better day and I have no intention of giving in to cravings. I'd just like to find the combination that provides more balanced days. I have always felt it was important to have things to look forward to, so a person doesn't spend time looking back at memories grown fond in the flawed fog of our brain. I have a lot still to try, a lot to look forward. If I ever exhaust all the alternative possibilities, I'll deal with that reality then.

Happy New Year.

 

[Caesarea]

(snip) I have always felt it was important to have things to look forward to, so a person doesn't spend time looking back at memories grown fond in the flawed fog of our brain. I have a lot still to try, a lot to look forward. If I ever exhaust all the alternative possibilities, I'll deal with that reality then.

Happy New Year.

Amen to that. There is wisdom in that.
Otherwise we age but not into a venerable wine but a corked and variable brew...(paraphrasing Jung there)

Happy 2010! and more to come!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I have no doubt that for me what I miss is the quick hit of WTA. Nothing like taking a drag and getting instant feedback. A big part is also the big spike of nicotine that can never be replicated with snus, or anything else that I know of.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, TB, but what Stubby says is the conclusion I've come to. Be it snus or WTA liquid, neither have the ability to give the instant and complete satisfaction derived from smoking an analog. Or sometimes it's just the lack of the burning tingle in my lungs. Maybe the rich fullness of the exhaled smoke is the only thing lacking that won't let my cake be iced. I know sometimes it's the combination of everything, so I snus and vape and snus and vape, again to try and make up the difference 'til I don't want anything more. Not to say I've been satisfied, just not wanting. For me, I expect to always have times that nothing hits the mark, hopefully not often. I do believe snus has all that I need to live a normal life, however, some of the baggage of an addiction always tries to grab some attention. There are things about smoking I truly miss, but I must always analyze and recognize the difference between getting what I want and what I need. I don't know if this applies to anyone but me, but I hope many are the same. It's the difference between whether on not I'll smoke today. I have a 46 year study on my wants and needs. Sometimes the line's hazy, but when self-analysis kicks in it becomes much clearer when a want has fought a deperate battle to disguise itself as a need. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a "0" balance on your credit card statement .

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

It seems to come in waves, guys, like nausea when you're sick. Today was NOT a bad day at all.

I think I depend on nicotine balance, as perhaps many do. I need a certain nicotine level (or WTA) to be content, serene, pleasant company. When I strike that balance -- using snus, dissolvables, nasal snuff, e-cigs -- I feel fine and I'm fun to be around. When that balance is missed, I'm irritatable, depressed at the state of the world, and very negative. I was way out of balance yesterday and I don't know why.

Yes TB, some balance that goes haywire for whatever reason....stress.....excited.....whatever reason. Kinda like treading water for some time and doing fine, then a wave or undercurrent comes along and we struggle to stay afloat, needing a quick change. Nothing except a cigarette has the ability to commence such a quick reaction. Analogy would be the quick change of direction the Titanic needed to avoid the iceberg.

 

[a2dcovert]

Boy, you guys are the life of the party! Gives a guy really something to look forward to. At least Christmas is almost over for another year.

I don't know how much longer I can keep up this war on cigarettes. If I can't win I might not want to keep fighting.