So Enough Already with the "You must do this" "You must buy that" Attitude

[DC2]

We need to keep in mind those small phrases that make a huge difference- "in my opinion."

This should be noted by everybody that really cares about this "issue" and especially by those that don't.

I try to always remember to use "I think" or "I believe" or "In my opinion" when posting.
A lot of people say they don't need to do that because obviously what they post is only their opinion.

Well, you DO need to unless you want to piss people off.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

This should be noted by everybody that really cares about this "issue" and especially by those that don't.

I try to always remember to use "I think" or "I believe" or "In my opinion" when posting.
A lot of people say they don't need to do that because obviously what they post is only their opinion.

Well, you DO need to unless you want to piss people off.

Not only pissing some people off; but, since I've started vaping I've seen, on more than one occasion; someone going into a b&m looking for something they were told was the best and to them it was totally not for them. I think after we get to a certain point, knowledge or experience wise, we forget what it was like when we first started vaping. We are all guilty of it, on some
Level, none of us are perfect. But; when we are talking to someone who has never been exposed to the vaping community, products, or the how to, we are all looked at, by them, as sources of information and our words count. In some cases we are their sole source of true and valued information. I'm just saying we need to
Be mindful of those key words that they will pick up on and hold on to. I know when I first found ECF in February I had given up and was at my witts end with this whole vaping thing. I got lucky, a really well respected vet picked up On that; and, made a great recommendation to me. He kept me from going back to cigs. I want to do what I can to pay that forward.
That's why those phrases without preface get my goat so much.
My goats name is Wilbur by the way. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EbenezerScrews]

Does Wilbur have a beard I can scratch? haha

There is also the fact that some people don't want to feel tethered to a computer in order to vape. By that I mean needing to come to a forum and watching youtube regularly to learn. There are those who just want to get a simple, relative to their needs, device, order a bunch of spares and move on as vapers. Unfortunately I don't even see B&M's catering to this market, at least none around me.

A smoker is used to running into a convenienced store, askin for smokes, and running back out. They didnt bring the pack home power up their computer and type "now what?" into the search box of a forum, haha

 

[Claudia P]

I started out with cig a likes and quickly moved up to Ego with clearos, at that time the mere thought of high end gear and rebuilding was beyond overwhelming to me. Had that been my only choice I would have quit vaping and continued smoking.

I do have high end gear now and I do rebuild but it was a slow progression that was necessary for me to gradually become comfortable with.

I firmly believe that whatever works well for you is what is right for you even if it isn't right for me. We are all different people with different needs and different simply means different, it doesn't mean right or wrong.

The tendency in today's world is to measure everyone by the same template and that just doesn't work.

 

[Anjaffm]

This should be noted by everybody that really cares about this "issue" and especially by those that don't.

I try to always remember to use "I think" or "I believe" or "In my opinion" when posting.
A lot of people say they don't need to do that because obviously what they post is only their opinion.

Well, you DO need to unless you want to piss people off.

Good one!

-------

And I fully agree with the OP.

Nobody wants to be told "you must" or "you have to". It is one thing to recommend a nice starter set / atomizer / battery, it is one thing to explain in simple terms the benefits of a Variable Voltage battery and to add, like "you may consider getting one" - but it is another thing entirely to talk bad about the user's setup and proclaim "you must get a xxx!". Nobody likes condescension.

What absolutely used to get my goat - some guy in the German vapers forum used to do that, past tense, fortunately - is the following reply to a new user, a prospective vaper asking for recommendations for a starter kit (!):

"You absolutely have to get a (some abbreviation) mech mod with a (some abbreviation) RDA atomizer with (unintelligible stuff) wire and (unintelligible stuff) fibre. Order it from Fasttech."

Duh. It may be pleasant for oneself to brag about one's superior knowledge. It is not, however, pleasant for the new vaper and not pleasant for those who read such bragging which obviously is not intended to aid the new vaper at all. Duh...

I like to use terms like "I would recommend xyz", "I like abc", "xxx is easy to use and has exchangeable atomizer heads" (+ short explanation), "you can mix different liquids in the tank of your PV", "you may want to try xxx" - etc. And / or talk about my own experience with certain things.

Oh, by the way, I have been vaping since 4 Nov 2011. I do not rebuild any coils (too much hassle and bother, I want to vape, not to fiddle with stuff), I purchase my atomizers and atomizer heads, I have never ordered from China, and no, I do not own a Provari. Because I am perfectly happy with what I have. And I have a lot of very nice vaping things. So what?

Edit:

I started out with cig a likes and quickly moved up to Ego with clearos, at that time the mere thought of high end gear and rebuilding was beyond overwhelming to me. Had that been my only choice I would have quit vaping and continued smoking.

I do have high end gear now and I do rebuild but it was a slow progression that was necessary for me to gradually become comfortable with.

I firmly believe that whatever works well for you is what is right for you even if it isn't right for me. We are all different people with different needs and different simply means different, it doesn't mean right or wrong.

The tendency in today's world is to measure everyone by the same template and that just doesn't work.

Precisely. Same here. You put this very well indeed

 

[wheezal]

Oh, by the way, I have been vaping since 4 Nov 2011.

yeah, nice try, if it were really 2011, we'd be ruled by the machines.....pffft.


i personally reject all forms of authoritative statements myself;
if someone says "you must look both ways before crossing the street" then i put on a blind fold, take off my pants and sprint headlong into traffic.

if someone says "you need to wear protection when handling those live wires" then i clench the frayed cord in my mouth, take off my pants and let chance fall where it may.

if someone tells me "you're breaks aren't good anymore, you need to get them replaces" then i slather oil all over my tires, take off my pants and ride my car down the steepest hill i can find.



point being, i haf no idea what this threa is aboot. and i haf no intention of finding out.

 

[Anjaffm]

yeah, nice try, if it were really 2011, we'd be ruled by the machines.....pffft.

Huh? Well we are, aren't we?
Young girl "Say, mom, if I ever depend on a machine for my life, please cut it off!"
Mom "ok"
Young girl "Hey, what are you doing??? Not the router!!!"

 

[classwife]

yeah, nice try, if it were really 2011, we'd be ruled by the machines.....pffft.


i personally reject all forms of authoritative statements myself;
if someone says "you must look both ways before crossing the street" then i put on a blind fold, take off my pants and sprint headlong into traffic.

if someone says "you need to wear protection when handling those live wires" then i clench the frayed cord in my mouth, take off my pants and let chance fall where it may.

if someone tells me "you're breaks aren't good anymore, you need to get them replaces" then i slather oil all over my tires, take off my pants and ride my car down the steepest hill i can find.



point being, i haf no idea what this threa is aboot. and i haf no intention of finding out.

This is a family safe and work safe forum


Please put your pants back on !

 

[Claudia P]

I can see both sides of this, I was one of those people with arthritic shaky hands who was positive that I could never ever rebuild. I said I was not interested but after a few months of reading posts from people who were trying to help, not badger, someone new to rebuilding I began to think maybe I could after all. Rebuilding is scary when you have never done it but it would be a shame for someone like me to give up and not ever mention it to them again.

It would be wise for someone with hand and vision issues to keep an open mind because I know some people with serious issues who have found out that they really can do it, including myself. The people who encouraged me to try were doing just that, encouraging and at the same time offering helpful tips to make it easier to do, like a simple jig that was sent free of charge with several already made coils and really easy picture step by step instructions. There are also other people who will go out of their way to make coils for others who can't or are afraid to try, who only charge postage.

I'm not saying that there aren't people who really can't make a coil but I am saying that there are good people who are more than happy to help in that circumstance for someone who really would like to be able to use an RDA or RBA.

I thought I knew my own hands and their limitations, but I was wrong, I'm glad that there were really nice people to encourage me to try.

The only problem I have is with rebuilding. I have seen posters say that they aren't interested in it, aren't interested in it right now, can't do because of their hands, etc. Others will reply "if I can do it so can you" and more of the same. Please don't push it when it's been posted that the person just interested in it. Also, I think that a person knows their own hands/fingers and what they can and can't do. There are people that have arthritic hands that make it impossible to do rebuilding. Accept it and maybe recommend a good clearo or tank.

 

[Anjaffm]

@classwife:

*giggles*
I was wondering about his pants

@Claudia P:
Yeah, I live in Europe (with the upcoming de-facto ban on e-cigs), and I have to get a rebuildable now, to be on the safe side.
I absolutely abhor the thought of fiddling with tiny little wires that I cannot even see without a magnifying glass, I absolutely abhor the thought of putting tiny little wires under tiny little screws - leaving no blank wire anywhere -, I absolutely abhor the thought of having to mess with (and master) ohm-meters or destroy my battery. I just hate it. Had this horrifying idea been my only option when I started, I would have turned away and continued smoking. And who knows? If they really ban all e-cigs except for cigalikes sometime in the future, I may go back to smoking if this horrible stuff is my only option. - I will try it in late June, somebody will show me "for blondes". I so wish I could avoid this hassle... *sigh* (If anybody wonders at my attitude: physics classes in school can leave a very lasting impression indeed. I think the modern word is "trauma" )

 

[JoshUng]

Tone is hard to tell in text, while I'm sure some are condescending, but I'm sure are just trying to be enthusiastic about the thing they are recommending.

But I agree, not everybody will be able to rebuild, or want to drop $200+ on a mod. I haven't been here long, but when I recommend something, I'd try to phrase it like "try considering using..." etc.

 

[Claudia P]

This is what pushed me to try rebuilding, the upcoming regulations, I really didn't want to do it, I was happy vaping what I had. What I found was that it wasn't nearly as hard or time consuming as I thought it would be. In the beginning I used the coils that another had made for me and just worked at getting the cotton wick right, but in time I got pretty good at it and it was only taking a very few minutes. Now honestly building a coil and making a wick doesn't take any more, if as much, time as it did to clean clearos and put in a new head.

In truth for me the hobby aspect is what kept me occupied enough to get through the difficult times of quitting smoking, now I doubt I would smoke if it was all banned, but then I'd still be vaping for quite a while as I used up my stash. I also have some unflavored nic and pg and vg so all I would need would be some flavorings and I'd still be good to go. At 66 I probably don't have that many years left anyway. lol

I do believe we will win in the end, but it may be difficult for a while.

@classwife:

*giggles*
I was wondering about his pants

@Claudia P:
Yeah, I live in Europe (with the upcoming de-facto ban on e-cigs), and I have to get a rebuildable now, to be on the safe side.
I absolutely abhor the thought of fiddling with tiny little wires that I cannot even see without a magnifying glass, I absolutely abhor the thought of putting tiny little wires under tiny little screws - leaving no blank wire anywhere -, I absolutely abhor the thought of having to mess with (and master) ohm-meters or destroy my battery. I just hate it. Had this horrifying idea been my only option when I started, I would have turned away and continued smoking. And who knows? If they really ban all e-cigs except for cigalikes sometime in the future, I may go back to smoking if this horrible stuff is my only option. - I will try it in late June, somebody will show me "for blondes". I so wish I could avoid this hassle... *sigh* (If anybody wonders at my attitude: physics classes in school can leave a very lasting impression indeed. I think the modern word is "trauma" )

 

[Ryedan]

This is a family safe and work safe forum

Please put your pants back on !

LOL, good one classwife

 

[twgbonehead]

This is what pushed me to try rebuilding, the upcoming regulations, I really didn't want to do it, I was happy vaping what I had. What I found was that it wasn't nearly as hard or time consuming as I thought it would be. In the beginning I used the coils that another had made for me and just worked at getting the cotton wick right, but in time I got pretty good at it and it was only taking a very few minutes. Now honestly building a coil and making a wick doesn't take any more, if as much, time as it did to clean clearos and put in a new head.

In truth for me the hobby aspect is what kept me occupied enough to get through the difficult times of quitting smoking, now I doubt I would smoke if it was all banned, but then I'd still be vaping for quite a while as I used up my stash. I also have some unflavored nic and pg and vg so all I would need would be some flavorings and I'd still be good to go. At 66 I probably don't have that many years left anyway. lol

I do believe we will win in the end, but it may be difficult for a while.

Hey, Claudia, haven't seen you around in a while (perhaps I've been hanging out in all the wrong forums!)

HI!!!

And I would say, to Anja, it was inspiring to me to watch (in the forum) Claudia take on coiling (which she didn't really want to do and thought she'd be totally lost at, IIRC) and see her come back a few weeks later giving out great rebuilding tips!!!! The hardest part for me is my vision (so I put on my 3.5 reading glasses and then peer around the table trying to find the part I need next!) but give it a try, and a little bit of time, and you'll find it's not that hard (and you might find a lot of satisfaction too!)

 

[Anjaffm]

thank you, dears

Well, I hate the idea of fiddling with coils, and I know for a fact that I will hate doing it and I will never find it enjoyable (I despise fiddling with tiny little thingies and I cannot see them either, wearing glasses for being nearsighted and now getting that old-age farsightedness on top of it, so I cannot see it with my glasses and I can no longer see it without them, either) - but then I will just have to do it, to be on the safe side. I do have a stand-alone magnifying glass with a light. So far I use it only to repair my jewelry.

However, I do appreciate the offer to help and I will definitely come back to it.
After all, I definitely do intend to use up the 4 liters of 36 mg nic base that I have in the freezer. I just wish there was another way

Gosh, if I had to repair my own car, I'd still be riding the bus

And actually, the fact that the ANTZ and their Pharma-paid lies are doing this to us, that has ...... me off for a long time. Ever since the Tobacco Products Directive was passed in the EU. The choices will be, simply : 1. do this stuff, 2. go back to smoking, 3. quit everything and start popping Big Pharma pills. (Nicotine does something for some people, you know.) And knowing me, when I cannot vape at all without bothering with this stuff every flipping time - when I now just change the atomizer head on my EVOD or Vivi Nova - I will get a pack of cigs to tide me over. And then - who knows? I know that this is precisely their intention. But being stubborn can only go so far....

Getting back to topic: No, not every vaper wants to get into the finer points. And it may frighten off / intimidate new vapers when they get told that they "must" get into things like that. Like Claudia P said above: if that had been the only choice in the beginning, she would have continued to smoke. So would I.

 

[Zealous]

Well, I hate the idea of fiddling with coils, and I know for a fact that I will hate doing it and I will never find it enjoyable (I despise fiddling with tiny little thingies and I cannot see them either, wearing glasses for being nearsighted and now getting that old-age farsightedness on top of it, so I cannot see it with my glasses and I can no longer see it without them, either) - but then I will just have to do it, to be on the safe side. I do have a stand-alone magnifying glass with a light. So far I use it only to repair my jewelry.

I appreciate what you're saying about rebuilding. I don't "love" rebuilding but I got into it because I wanted to be more self sufficient & have a bit more control over what's happening. So I'm not super into rebuilding & don't try out all kinds of different coils for fun. I do 1 simple coil that works well & I do the same one in both my devices. HST I will tell you that a great benefit of building your own coils is the fact that it will last longer therefore maintenance will be easier. I rebuild my coils ever 1.5-2 months & just rewick them about once a week. This is a lot less trouble than cleaning my evod heads was & when I got done cleaning my evod heads they were never exactly like a brand new coil head, whereas a freshly rewicked coil IS just like a brand new head.

 

[Myrany]

I did not want to get into rebuilding either. Make it worse I used to TEACH High School math, chemistry and physics. LOL

I did it purely because of fear of the impending FDA of doom. Somewhere along the way I discovered that the flavor and vapor were better and it was costing me less money. Once I got everything coiled the maintenance got simple and quick just a dry burn and change of wicking (leave the coil alone). So it actually takes me less time now and a single coil can keep going for months in my drippers.

I totally respect that some people do not want to do it or cannot do it. They have the absolute right to make the choice for themselves. For those that want to learn however I am more than willing to put in however much time is needed to help them succeed.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Tone is hard to tell in text, while I'm sure some are condescending, but I'm sure are just trying to be enthusiastic about the thing they are recommending.

But I agree, not everybody will be able to rebuild, or want to drop $200+ on a mod. I haven't been here long, but when I recommend something, I'd try to phrase it like "try considering using..." etc.

The fact that tone is difficult to tell in text is why I push the issue of "prefacing"
Opinion statements. As someone said earlier- some of those people say that it is assumed try are stating opinion.
Well my pappy use to have a saying about assuming things- I'll get another infraction for repeating it here; but, you get my point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Claudia P]

I don't enjoy or love rebuilding, but as I get better at it I don't mind doing it and it only takes me a few minutes now. I use a coil for at least a couple of months so dry burning and rewicking only takes a couple of minutes. I've stopped using regular cotton wicks and am using Peaches and Cream yarn and that is even quicker and easier.

thank you, dears

Well, I hate the idea of fiddling with coils, and I know for a fact that I will hate doing it and I will never find it enjoyable (I despise fiddling with tiny little thingies and I cannot see them either, wearing glasses for being nearsighted and now getting that old-age farsightedness on top of it, so I cannot see it with my glasses and I can no longer see it without them, either) - but then I will just have to do it, to be on the safe side. I do have a stand-alone magnifying glass with a light. So far I use it only to repair my jewelry.

However, I do appreciate the offer to help and I will definitely come back to it.
After all, I definitely do intend to use up the 4 liters of 36 mg nic base that I have in the freezer. I just wish there was another way

Gosh, if I had to repair my own car, I'd still be riding the bus

And actually, the fact that the ANTZ and their Pharma-paid lies are doing this to us, that has ...... me off for a long time. Ever since the Tobacco Products Directive was passed in the EU. The choices will be, simply : 1. do this stuff, 2. go back to smoking, 3. quit everything and start popping Big Pharma pills. (Nicotine does something for some people, you know.) And knowing me, when I cannot vape at all without bothering with this stuff every flipping time - when I now just change the atomizer head on my EVOD or Vivi Nova - I will get a pack of cigs to tide me over. And then - who knows? I know that this is precisely their intention. But being stubborn can only go so far....

Getting back to topic: No, not every vaper wants to get into the finer points. And it may frighten off / intimidate new vapers when they get told that they "must" get into things like that. Like Claudia P said above: if that had been the only choice in the beginning, she would have continued to smoke. So would I.

 

[Claudia P]

Hey there, nice to see you too. The old thread just isn't hopping like it used to, I still check in every day but rarely post there anymore.

Hey, Claudia, haven't seen you around in a while (perhaps I've been hanging out in all the wrong forums!)

HI!!!

And I would say, to Anja, it was inspiring to me to watch (in the forum) Claudia take on coiling (which she didn't really want to do and thought she'd be totally lost at, IIRC) and see her come back a few weeks later giving out great rebuilding tips!!!! The hardest part for me is my vision (so I put on my 3.5 reading glasses and then peer around the table trying to find the part I need next!) but give it a try, and a little bit of time, and you'll find it's not that hard (and you might find a lot of satisfaction too!)