SO - What is going to happen ?

[markfm]

That seems like a fairly safe bet, and it would behoove people to get their ducks in line before then.

All we need to do is have the rossum stash bunkers' coordinates [emoji16]

 

[expat]

Odd. I have found an AR vendor that will send me the hardware, but tells me he cannot send anything other than 0mg to anyone IN the state. He can, however, send anything he likes OUT of the state. I have ordered what I can from him.

The two places where I do buy my liquid from are out of state but have accepted my orders last night, and they have been shipped today, to me in AR.

I'm old. I'm confused as about all this nonsense.

 

[sofarsogood]

There's a process occurring in the US regarding liability for the rapid rise in opioid abuse and overdoses. States and municipalities have sued the drug makers over their marketing and misrepresentations regarding their products that resulted in overprescribing of opioids to patients who became dependent on them. The liability was meant to reimburse states and cities for the cost of medical care needed for all those patients that needed treatment. Sounds a little like the MSA, right?

Then it goes further. The pharmacies get added as defendants for filling all those prescriptions. OK, maybe they should have seen a pattern, especially the national chains that had tons of data that could have raised red flags. But they're not done. Then they tack on individual pharmacists working in those stores for filling the prescriptions. So the pharmacists decide to sue the individual doctors for writing the prescriptions. Mind you, no one has identified a particular patient or prescription in this mess, just the whole lot are responsible.

Following that chain of logic, the doctors can then sue the patients for asking for the prescriptions in the first place. If the patient never complained about pain none of this would have happened. Then the patients can sue the drug makers for making the opioids that got them dependent. Which sorta brings us back around to the states, representing their citizens, suing the drug companies to begin with.

I'm not suggesting or certainly defending what the drug makers did when they pushed so heavily that their products could be prescribed with a lower risk of abuse than the old fashioned opioid pills already in use for decades. It was a money grab and they do bear responsibility. Yet if you follow the above line of logic, essentially everyone believes they can blame someone else for the problem, and our legal system allows an endless cycle of lawsuits to be filed and argued, while not a dime is going to any individual actually harmed by those marketing practices. The end result will be billions of dollars paid in settlements, which to the drug companies is just part of the cost of doing business, all of which will end up either in the pockets of all the attorneys or in the general revenues of states which won't use the money for its intended purpose in the first place.

Of course then there's the unintended consequence of people who truly have severe chronic pain losing access to any relief because no one want to manufacture, dispense, or prescribe the drugs because they're afraid they'll get sued all over again. This is the "justice" system we've allowed to develop because no one wants to be responsible for their actions.

I go to the doc and complain about a grouchy hip joint, a long standing issue that had only become noticable in recent years. Xray shows a condition. Doc offers pain killers even though I didn't ask for that. I say, hell no. Didn't go back to that doc. (Exercise nearly eliminates the issue.)

What's going to happen is a lot more people are going to burden the health care system with their smoking related illnesses. Another thing that's going to happen is I'll be vaping.

 

[Rossum]

All we need to do is have the rossum stash bunkers' coordinates

 

[stols001]

I always get surprised when someone gets the short term opiate offer these days. Docs seem to be taking it awfully serious these days. IDK I guess I work in a pediatrician's office, and they sort of seem to stick to Tylenol and Advil. Break your arm? Here's some Advil. Fever of 104? Tylenol it up,

The kids all seem to do fine actually and in today's society well, this is perhaps the ONE area where they will get toughened up, so even though I think there is this mythical "Kids can handle pain better than adults" I think it's more "Shut up kid, take your Advil."

I'm good with it; I take my toughening experiences where I can find them.

But yeah, we get sent shame graphs of which providers are prescribing the most opiates each month along with the repeated criteria of when they are considered 'acceptable" which sort of seems to be "never."

Anna

My big brother's doc got his license revoked for prescribing too many opiates. IDK what my brother did because the guy pretty much got him from being a GIANT ball of angry depression rolling downhill and gaining momentum to some semblance of a normal human being .Maybe he got referred, IDK.

 

[Myrany]

We used to get a good laugh comparing what answers we lied about on surveys at school about the curriculum and teachers. Got a petition circulated with 75% student signatures to change our mascot to an aardvark. See a pattern?

Um My High School mascot WAS an Aardvark. No I am NOT kidding!

 

[stols001]

There are like worse things than an aardvark.

I'm not quite sure what one IS actually, but like, there are worse things.

If I had to vote for a school mascot (I went to like an art and recreational drug use high school for "troubled teens with more money than parental supervision) well, we probably woulda gone for "death."

I have vague memories they might have had a Category 100 basketball team or something and going to a game once. There were no cheerleaders, but "Death" was also not in attendance and that was a shame.

Anna

 

[gerrymi]

The one thing I can say with certainty is we’re all going to die. Prep accordingly.

They better allow vaping wherever we end up or I’ll be ...... for eternity.

Well...I kinda' fantasize about going to Hell when I leave...(that's where ALL the wayward women, illegal drugs and casinos will be)...

But if vaping is NOT allowed...and I'm caught...will my punishment be...being sent to Heaven...(with 24/7/365 hymns)???...

..

 

[stols001]

You can totally just make this stuff up for yourself, dude. I take all the smidgens of like, religions I enjoy and like mash em up. Which is why MY heaven is entered by request only but I can go giggle at the Mormons or (in my heaven I would not do it on earth but I have EARNED the right if I get there) go solicit a few Jehovah's Witnesses until I get bored, etc.

I also like to mash it up in real life, like occasionally since my mom is a Sufi and I am a Preacher's Kid (sort of non technically you aren't supposed to be even the Sufi version of a preacher only *I* KNOW her real self and I am like ,"Humph. Hypocrite." I did Seik for awhile that one is silent, but deadly it is SUPER hard. You have to keep a "sin" journal for example. Where you LOG your errorz. I don't got time for that, clearly!

So like every now and then I like to take a week and mix it up religion wise,. I found all my Sufi prayer beads and headscarves today but like, I am not sure I want to confuse the children. Etc. Otherwise, I would be like doing prayers to Mecca as yes I know them 5 times.

I should do the prayers anyway, .I'd get a break for a minute. Gotta go to bed.

I'm sort of long windedly saying "Think non binary."

Non binary is great. Things aren't so 1 and 0.

I have a very forgiving Creator but I'm also, you know, not Charles Manson or anything either. To be non binary about it. Well, I'm not the best of persons, nor the worst of persons I am in the mean spread probably, that is truly non binary.

I'm not sure it is, actually. .Never mix religion and math.

Anna

 

[AvaOrchid]

Just now thinking, maybe, with the inevitable lack of available products which will occur from a heavy handed enforcement, there will be an uptick in smoking rates. If honestly documented and analyzed, there could be a backlash from true health advocates down the road asking what the hell went wrong here!?! Maybe then a real discussion could be made for harm reduction policies instead of the prohibitionary course we seem tied to presently...

Considering there are so few that make any ties whatsoever to the increase in vaping that happened at the same time the decrease in smoking happen I kind of doubt they'll ever admit they're wrong at least not until the ones that are alive and practicing now die or go out of practice

 

[sofarsogood]

Nude Nicotine has disclosed they filed a PMTA. If it is accepted by the FDA then their products should remain for sale for a year beyond May, assuming Congress doesn't interfere.

 

[Rossum]

Nude Nicotine has disclosed they filed a PMTA. If it is accepted by the FDA then their products should remain for sale for a year beyond May, assuming Congress doesn't interfere.

The claim they've filed for some e-liquids. Have you seen anything that suggests they filed some for nic base as well?

 

[sofarsogood]

The claim they've filed for some e-liquids. Have you seen anything that suggests they filed some for nic base as well?

They have given an opening to write and ask about nic for mixing. That should happen. I wonder, if a particular eliquid is approved it's manufacture could be licensed. Could it be licensed to shops? Sell them an approved all-in-one flavor and let them have the profits from mixing. It might save a lot of shops who depend on mixing.

 

[stols001]

Could be good or bad. IDK if a PART of an eliquid that has passed PTMA would need to be redone, who knows?

I sort of don't want the government like thinking too hard about nic for mixing, in case it's not on their radare but let's face it, it probably is. I mean....

I glassed up 3 more liters of nic yesterday now I am out of bottles. I will have to get a few more, wider mouth probably but we will see.

Anna

 

[sofarsogood]

I sort of don't want the government like thinking too hard about nic for mixing, in case it's not on their radare but let's face it, it probably is. I mean....Anna

Am I recalling correctly the FDA has already said they don't plan on restricting flavorings before they are added to commercial liquid? How would it be different for PG and VG? And if those three are not covered how do they distinguish nicotine? I don't know the answers but the FDA probably does.