SO - What is going to happen ?

[Eskie]

I understand what you're saying. There is a difference though. Non-alcoholic beer still has a minute amount of alcohol in it. 0nic ejuice can be made without any amount of nic in it. The FDA requiring products to be labeled "This product contains nicotine" might be something that can be challenged.

True, but their position is if it’s used in any manner for the delivery of nicotine it becomes a tobacco product and requires the inappropriate warning of “this product contains nicotine a highly addictive substance “ (I didn’t bold it like they require as it’s too obnoxious as it is). So a mod can come with that warning, even though it’s a battery holder with a circuit board.

Then again, I just read today that under the propaganda proposition 95, or whatever number it is, CA wants to label Tylenol as a cancer causing chemical. Even the FDA told them they can’t do that with no evidence to support it as it’s an approved drug, but hey, it’s CA.

Edit: I had to back and check. It’s Proposition 65 that makes everything cause cancer. I wanted to update to be accurate. I’m sure Prop 95 does something nasty as well.

 

[Don29palms]

True, but their position is if it’s used in any manner for the delivery of nicotine it becomes a tobacco product and requires the inappropriate warning of “this product contains nicotine a highly addictive substance “ (I didn’t bold it like they require as it’s too obnoxious as it is). So a mod can come with that warning, even though it’s a battery holder with a circuit board.

Then again, I just read today that under the propaganda proposition 95, or whatever number it is, CA wants to label Tylenol as a cancer causing chemical. Even the FDA told them they can’t do that with no evidence to support it as it’s an approved drug, but hey, it’s CA.

I understand what their idiotic reasoning is behind it. I still wonder if there is a way to legally challenge it. Then another question is who would challenge it and where would the money come from. I would be willing to donate for such a challenge. IMHO the FDA has severely overreached here but that's no suprise.

 

[CMD-Ky]

True, but their position is if it’s used in any manner for the delivery of nicotine it becomes a tobacco product and requires the inappropriate warning of “this product contains nicotine a highly addictive substance “ (I didn’t bold it like they require as it’s too obnoxious as it is). So a mod can come with that warning, even though it’s a battery holder with a circuit board.

Then again, I just read today that under the propaganda proposition 95, or whatever number it is, CA wants to label Tylenol as a cancer causing chemical. Even the FDA told them they can’t do that with no evidence to support it as it’s an approved drug, but hey, it’s CA.

Be easier and cheaper to only label those products that don't cause cancer in California.

 

[Don29palms]

Be easier and cheaper to only label those products that don't cause cancer in California.

At one time in history Kalifornia use to be a great state. Now the rest of the country sees Kalifornia as the example of what not to do. Unfortunately the sickness has spread to Oregon and Washington states.

 

[bnrkwest]

We should start calling them helicopter states, you know like helicopter mom's LOL

 

[Don29palms]

We should start calling them helicopter states, you know like helicopter mom's LOL

I believe they are already called Nanny States.

 

[Eskie]

I understand what their idiotic reasoning is behind it. I still wonder if there is a way to legally challenge it. Then another question is who would challenge it and where would the money come from. I would be willing to donate for such a challenge. IMHO the FDA has severely overreached here but that's no suprise.

I decided to look something up about the whole deeming regulation and approval stuff. While it never gets mentioned, except maybe in specialty forums that are likely not as big as say vaping, it turns out that pipes for use with pipe tobacco are also considered tobacco products (but not lighters, at least Bic is safe for now). I know there’s been no fuss about banning pipes, but technically, well really legally, they should also require an application for approval to market.

So I guess anything that comes in contact with tobacco is a tobacco product, including a pipe. So if you have a nice hobby of hand carving pipes and giving them out as Christmas presents, you might want to hide them if an FDA inspector shows up on your doorstep.

It really illustrates how ambiguous the whole TCA is when it comes to anything other than a cigarette (or cigar). They should have just stuck with the intent of the legislation, but thanks to that federal judge deciding vaping stuff isn’t a drug, but could be regulated under the TCA, the whole thing has become the poster child of unintended consequences. Can you picture Dunhill filing a PMTA, let alone smaller specialty companies that may just consist of a handful of people?

I was hoping to find actual pipes somehow spared, making a case for the delivery system separated from the tobacco itself, but nope, they got that one covered as well. But lighters are still cool.

 

[CMD-Ky]

At one time in history Kalifornia use to be a great state. Now the rest of the country sees Kalifornia as the example of what not to do. Unfortunately the sickness has spread to Oregon and Washington states.

The residents see what is happening and leave. Sadly they take their voting patterns with them.

 

[Don29palms]

I decided to look something up about the whole deeming regulation and approval stuff. While it never gets mentioned, except maybe in specialty forums that are likely not as big as say vaping, it turns out that pipes for use with pipe tobacco are also considered tobacco products (but not lighters, at least Bic is safe for now). I know there’s been no fuss about banning pipes, but technically, well really legally, they should also require an application for approval to market.

So I guess anything that comes in contact with tobacco is a tobacco product, including a pipe. So if you have a nice hobby of hand carving pipes and giving them out as Christmas presents, you might want to hide them if an FDA inspector shows up on your doorstep.

It really illustrates how ambiguous the whole TCA is when it comes to anything other than a cigarette (or cigar). They should have just stuck with the intent of the legislation, but thanks to that federal judge deciding vaping stuff isn’t a drug, but could be regulated under the TCA, the whole thing has become the poster child of unintended consequences. Can you picture Dunhill filing a PMTA, let alone smaller specialty companies that may just consist of a handful of people?

I was hoping to find actual pipes somehow spared, making a case for the delivery system separated from the tobacco itself, but nope, they got that one covered as well. But lighters are still cool.

That's the slippery slope that can be argued. Why aren't disposal lighters and matches a tobacco product? Are electric heater a tobacco product? Is anything made from brass, copper or stainless steel a tobacco product? Are glass tubes and cotton balls a tobacco product? How about batteries? If I buy any of those products in a vape shop they are considered tobacco products. How can something that doesn't contain any nicotine be considered a tobacco product? What about other product that do contain nicotine that aren't classified as a tobacco product? Now before the red Xs start I know this is ridiculous but it's just an exaggeration to make a point. Like I've said many times IMHO this is a severe overreach by an out of control government agency known as the FDA.

 

[DeloresRose]

Surveys handed out in school.
CDC - Youth Tobacco Survey (YTS) - Smoking & Tobacco Use

Did anyone ever tell the truth in any school survey? I don’t know a single soul who did.

 

[Don29palms]

The residents see what is happening and leave. Sadly they take their voting patterns with them.

Isn't it horrible that people that escape a bad situation insist on perpetuating the same situation somewhere else?

 

[Don29palms]

@CMD-Ky Thanks. LOL!

 

[CMD-Ky]

That's the slippery slope that can be argued. Why aren't disposal lighters and matches a tobacco product? Are electric heater a tobacco product? Is anything made from brass, copper or stainless steel a tobacco product? Are glass tubes and cotton balls a tobacco product? How about batteries? If I buy any of those products in a vape shop they are considered tobacco products. How can something that doesn't contain any nicotine be considered a tobacco product? What about other product that do contain nicotine that aren't classified as a tobacco product? Now before the red Xs start I know this is ridiculous but it's just an exaggeration to make a point. Like I've said many times IMHO this is a severe overreach by an out of control government agency known as the FDA.

Sorry, I just could not resist being the first to X. Otherwise I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[MikeADore]

The residents see what is happening and leave. Sadly they take their voting patterns with them.

I read an article somewhere recently that this phenomenon is now occurring in Texas with a substantial number of Californians migrating there.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I read an article somewhere recently that this phenomenon is now occurring in Texas with a substantial number of Californians migrating there.

Yep. Net loss of substantial population in recent years. Most commonly moving to Texas, AZ, WA. Interestingly, New York is #8. So they not only don't understand the cause & effect of their voting, but moving to NY gets you more of the same with worse weather.

 

[Uncle Willie]

If you out-live your stash, then you are not properly stocked up!

Edited .. at my age, I'm allowed to be confused ..

 

[expat]

Man. I am an older person. I haven't posted on this forum in ages. But today, I tried four of my usual online shops to replace a bit of hardware and was told nope. We can't ship to you, you is in Arkansas.

 

[puffon]

Man. I am an older person. I haven't posted on this forum in ages. But today, I tried four of my usual online shops to replace a bit of hardware and was told nope. We can't ship to you, you is in Arkansas.

It has been awhile.
Arkansas stopped online sales July 21, 2015.
No online sales to Arkansas?

 

[Rossum]

Everyone quits smoking cigarettes at some point.

Perhaps I should have written "living ex-smokers".

 

[Rossum]

It's a rather fluid thing. Every day people quit smoking. Every day, some of those who quit relapse. The numbers diminish through attrition. What makes me mad is all of those ex-smokers who act judgemental because they "quit cold turkey and it was no big deal". Then they bum a cigarette from a smoker.

An "ex-smoker" who bums cigs is lying to himself.