So when do we get 100/200/300 MG liquids? (since the absorbion rate is so low?)

[Mac]

Does voltage have something to do with it? My v9 runs real hot. 8 consecutive puffs and the cart chars. But I can puff 4mg and 6mg carts and feel satisfied. an 8mg cart hurts my throat dries out my mouth and makes me dizzy. My buddy let me try an se model with 24mg in it and I found it to be weak. This makes me think it's voltage and not nic concentration?

 

[markarich159]

Does voltage have something to do with it? My v9 runs real hot. 8 consecutive puffs and the cart chars. But I can puff 4mg and 6mg carts and feel satisfied. an 8mg cart hurts my throat dries out my mouth and makes me dizzy. My buddy let me try an se model with 24mg in it and I found it to be weak. This makes me think it's voltage and not nic concentration?

It's possible, higher voltage, more current thru the resistor in the atomizer, more energy available to produce vapor, more TOTAL vapor production overall, therefore, more total nicotine. But again, until the proper studies are run no one will no for sure, but it makes logical sense. I do think it should be obvious to anybody that there are DEFINITELY going to be differences between different e-cig model. I have 2 ecigs, the blucig(which I waited over a month for and absolutely sucks) and a Joye 510 which visibly produces 3 times the volume of vapor and vapor that's twice as thick the blucig. So, without question, the 510 MUST be putting out more total nicotine then the Blu. You would need well run studies, however, to exactly quantify this.

 

[GreySaber]

Saw that one too, again only an abstract.

Easy now! Got you to pay attention though didn't it? (And it's kinda like saying no offence to allow you to talk down to people instead of just explaining something in a friendly fashion.)

Now, let's both get back to being nice.

But you're quite right. We need more information. This whole study is out there somewhere, and we need to find it.

Now, for sake of arguement, have you got the Tmax and Cmax scores for the nicotrol inhaler from other clinical trials? There's a number of questions right there.

 

[Stubby]

Found this site

Vermont Vapor - The Smoking Alternative

If you look on the left side of the page it list the ingredients for there juice. The interesting paragraph is this

At Vermont Vapor, all the liquid we sell is mixed entirely by us - we start with 100% pure food grade glycerine and add distilled water, nicotine ((S)-(-)-Nicotine, over 99% pure), and citric acid to balance the ph.

They say they add the citric acid it to balance the ph. This would certainly lower the ph, and decrease the absorption of nicotine. I always thought citric acid was added to foods as a natural preservative. I wonder how many other manufactures are doing this?

 

[Kate51]

I used 24mg/ml liquid, but wanted to try some 36mg. One Cartful. Went pretty good for about five minutes before it hit me that I wasn't feeling too well. It was not pleasant at all, terrific head buzz, almost to blindness! Ears ringing, and a stomach that would not hardly put up with me moving. Had to go lay down for a few woozy moments, felt very sleepy, out of it. Pretty shakey as well. Had that been 48mg/ml I probably wouldn't be sitting here typing. Yes, I felt that heart-stopping sick. A lot like being "shockey". Was to sick to check my BP.
Have since dropped down 25% to 18mg.ml, am still quite happy with that. Without so much as a hint of deprevation. ? Anyone else tried cutting back a bit, any trouble? Almost too easy, kind of weird.
Have some 36mg/ml naked VG on the way, marked only for mixing not vaping! I certainly would not want any 1-2-300 mg liquid even in the house, let alone handle it. Could be, no, make that IS quite dangerous.
Stubby, when one can get an ingredient list, almost all do list citric acid. I just ordered some "tobacco" flavor from Vermont Vapor as well, will use that with VG also. Their prices seem great, has already shipped. Was curious how it compared to JC Original.

 

[GreySaber]

Found this site
They say they add the citric acid it to balance the ph. This would certainly lower the ph, and decrease the absorption of nicotine.

Stubby, in a previous post you said "the ph of cigarettes is around 4.5. that's on the acidic side."

If they are adding citric acid, wouldn't that move things to the acidic side, which you previously suggested was desireable?

Clear that up for me?

As to adding citric acid, I've heard of this being done for throat hit, but not PH balance. (Remember throat hit does not require any nicotine now! You can get good throat hit with 0 nic.)

 

[GreySaber]

Gents, here's an idea I've been pondering on... which might explain the absorbion issues.

IT might just be... the tar.

OK, let's assume you were to take a sample of the tar from tobacco smoke, and test it. I would strongly beleive it would be high in nicotine.

Now, this tar sticks around in the lungs, as opposed to our vape, which we suppose does not stick around in our lungs. The fact the tar is still there, remaining in place and contenueing transferance... might be a major issue.

Admittedly my hypothesis relys on several premise I cannot establish as being absolutely true.

If true, it would explain why the nicotrol inhaler also had low marks... indeed, it would explain why anything without tar would have low marks.

Thoughts?

 

[Stubby]

Stubby, in a previous post you said "the ph of cigarettes is around 4.5. that's on the acidic side."

If they are adding citric acid, wouldn't that move things to the acidic side, which you previously suggested was desireable?

Clear that up for me?

As to adding citric acid, I've heard of this being done for throat hit, but not PH balance. (Remember throat hit does not require any nicotine now! You can get good throat hit with 0 nic.)

As for the first question. I'm was kind of guessing on the ph of cigarettes. I did a quick google and found this interesting research.
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies
Another site listed the ph of cigarettes at about 5.0. Unquestionable on the acidic side. Notice the high ph of cigars.

Adding citric acid would indeed make it more acidic, and no, that would not be desireable. In fact we want to raise the ph to increase the absorption of nicotine. I'm guessing the manufactures are adding citric acid to increase the shelf life. Someone who knows about food chemistry can perhaps clue us in on that.

I'm really guessing on a lot of this. I in no way profess to be an expert on the subject. I'm just trying to put 2 + 2 together. In many other types of nicotine delivery systems (cigars, swedish style snus, etc) the ph value has a large influence on the absorption of nicotine. I have to assume it has an influence with e-cigs.

 

[Angela]

.... (Remember throat hit does not require any nicotine now! You can get good throat hit with 0 nic.)

That is contrary to my own experience, and also to what most people have stated to be their experience on the forums.

What e-liquid have you found to have a good throat hit with 0mg nic?

 

[CardinalWinds]

There are a lot of issues present that make vaping and smoking totally different from each other in the way nicotine is absorbed. I haven't read every comment but did anyone bring up the great difference in temperature between an analog and an e-cig? An analog vaporizes nic at a much higher temperature.

I said it at the beginning of this thread and I'll say it again. Certainly for me, drag for drag, I get much less nicotine from vaping than smoking. I don't need a study to know this because my body clearly tells me. Who here can honestly say that, again, drag for drag, they don't vape more than they ever smoked? And I'm speaking to those who use their e-cig strictly as an alternative to smoking and not those who are trying to wean themselves off of nicotine.

 

[GreySaber]

That is contrary to my own experience, and also to what most people have stated to be their experience on the forums.

What e-liquid have you found to have a good throat hit with 0mg nic?

Rum from Smoke liberation has epic throat hit completely independant of it's nic content.

As does Cherry Menthol from Liquid express.

I'd say most people who mix their own flavors will agree here, since you can vape your no flavor liquid without a throat hit, add a flavoring, and get said throat hit. No throat hit with 26mg... add flavor...throat hit.


There's even some fairly elaborate ideas in the DIY forum on adding throat hit with various things. I'm not immediately up to day with what's good...but I should be since my apple flavor needs more hit.

 

[GreySaber]

Another site listed the ph of cigarettes at about 5.0. Unquestionable on the acidic side. Notice the high ph of cigars.

Adding citric acid would indeed make it more acidic, and no, that would not be desireable. In fact we want to raise the ph to increase the absorption of nicotine.

What's our current PH on Eliquid? I'm not trying to hold you feet to the fire here, I'm just having trouble since you say tobacco is on the acidic side, so shouldn't we want our eliquid also on the acidic side, which adding an acid would do?

 

[Stubby]

What's our current PH on Eliquid? I'm not trying to hold you feet to the fire here, I'm just having trouble since you say tobacco is on the acidic side, so shouldn't we want our eliquid also on the acidic side, which adding an acid would do?

I also would like to know the ph value of e-liquid. I ask the question several times on this thread but no one seems to know.

The interesting thing about cigarettes is that the absorption rate is also low. They just start out with much higher nic levels. The average cigarette has around 10 mg of nicotine. The absorption rate is only about 1 mg with some variables (depends on if it is regular, light, etc). That's close to the absorption rate of e-cigs. Now we are back to where we started. We would need massive doses of nicotine in the e-liquid to equal what we get with a cigarette. This assumes a 10% absorption rate.

The idea of raising the ph level would be to increase the nicotine absorption without raising the nicotine level in the juice to very high levels.

There are many many variables that I have not a clue on. Does using a higher voltage e-cig increase the absorbed nicotine? Is the nicotine in an e-cig absorbed mostly through the mucus membrane or the lungs? I don't know. We need lots of studies to figure it out. Until then it's all guess work.

 

[Kate51]

Stubby, you can get ph strips at pharmacy or a pet store (used for aquarium water) those will work fine, I had some medical ones but they are all the same. I measured my JC juices, were all in the 4.5 - 6 range. I think the HIGHER the ph the harsher the 'hit', (better nic absorbtion) There are electronic PH meters as well, pricey. If your body is acidic, you are also prone to catching more bugs, germs, viruses. Alkaline healthier.
Arg! Have a chart. can't get it uploaded, server busy will try again.
A link for ph levels/nicotine absorbtion:

pH and Nicotine Delivery of Different Tobacco Products on the Canadian Market

I wouldn't recommend putting oven cleaner in your juice, please. Don't know what the treatment would be to raise the ph in your juice. Some juices do list sodium in their ingredient lists. But would definitley try to raise ph before I raise nicotine levels, just me.

 

[Keef]

I never tried 36mg and there is NO way I would be interested in 100mg.

I have come to the conclusion I was not mega addicted to nicotine.

With me it is more the habit, something in my hand and mouth + of course there must be a feeling of inhaling to get satisfaction.

I can use 11mg - 18mg and there is no difference in the amount I vape per day.

 

[need_2quit]

THAT must be why we vape so much! BECUASE WE AREN'T GETTING MUCH NICOTINE! IF we got the same amount we get from a cigarette, we'd vape less! Our Batteries and atmoizers would see much much less use!

you are exactly right. I never sucked analogs down the way I do this thing lol.

Big shock the other night when I popped a piece of 4mg nicorette in my mouth and let it just sit there. didn't even chew it to get a blast of juice.

I got so freakin nauseous I had to take it out. Just a couple months ago I would chew it like candy with no ill effects.... now it's too strong!

Big eye opener. I've been off analogs totally for about 2 months. Apparently, I need way less nic than I used to. I'm now able to cut the nic down on my juices and taper off my vaping. Occasionally, though 36mg (like in the morning) just isn't enough though. Good day/bad day vaping. The 36 is handy for those days.

For a new vaper that's a heavy smoker, 36 is the minimum they should vape.

 

[Tugger]

I'm not sure pH of liquid = pH of vapor. I can't say anything more definitive than that, but it's a strong assumption that the two are are equal.

One mechanism that I know applies here is that sometimes the component that predominantly determines pH is not volatile. For instance, NaOH (Sodium Hydroxide) is a strong base in liquid and the OH- hydroxyl group which makes the solution basic is not volatile so it would not vaporize and affect the pH of the vapor. Ammonia, by contrast, is volatile and definitely makes for a basic vapor (hence the smell), but either way I still don't know if the pH of the ammonia solution = the pH of the ammonia vapor. You'll need a chemist to answer that question.

 

[GreySaber]

I'm not sure pH of liquid = pH of vapor. I can't say anything more definitive than that, but it's a strong assumption that the two are are equal.

Excellent point. And if Ammonia is a base, it might be we want bases not acids...........If this even relates to absorbion! Gah. We need a scientist! Let's go kidnap a few biochemists and make'em run tests for us.

 

[Kate51]

Data suggest that smokeless tobacco products from the US are the most potent nicotine delivery devices. While cigars have low nicotine content, its availability to the smoker is reinforced by a higher pH. Cigarette, fine cut and pipe present the lowest pH while their nicotine content seems to be at an average level.

Read........

 

[GreySaber]

Read.......

Interisting.... So what are the health effects of a high ph vapor?