Stainless Steel mesh, Oxide discussion.

[Rapture]

The thing with mesh is, even the people who are using it "un-oxidized" actually are oxidizing it by heating the coil red- or orange-hot (and I've seen some take it white-hot, which is above 1000 C!). The current passes through the mesh, shorting the coil, until the mesh has been heated sufficiently to yield a layer of oxidation on its surface. You can't use unoxidized SS as a wicking material, because it will be too conductive. So any sort of "fusible" Kanthal would be irrelevant, though I can see your logic in thinking so.

What I'm planning to do (whenever vapemail delivers my genny and 2mm SS rope) is try using silica/ekowool sleeving to electrically insulate the rope from the coil and atty deck. I'm just not sure yet if I should have got 1.5 mm rope for 2mm ekowool, I've read that the AGA-T's have a hole diameter of 3mm (approx.). And I don't really want to mess with drilling SS if i don't have to, as you know it's a real bugger unless you have a good drill press and feed it slowly at low speed, with lube. Cobalt bits work but at these small sizes, tend to break quite easily as the cobalt steel is much more brittle than stainless steel. (That's what I've learned from browsing around some machinist forums, anyways.)

yes i agree with the first paragraph. Mesh just sucks as a wick period. its AMAZING as a capillary actioin wicking system but it has a huge draw back of being conductive. I know its possible to get it working and it works well but you have to fiddle with it forever, burn it with the hot coils, smoke or fumes come off the mesh. then you get a perfect setup and sit down to play a video game with your nice working genesis with a smile on your face and it gets a short or a hotspot. im just not into the constant babying of the mesh. If i knew it was 100% safe I would probably tray and master the material. but I dont so its not worth it to me.

On another note. I was about to sell my aga t2 and right before I tried one last thing. I took my 3/32 ss rope and wrappped a fat section of cotton at the top coil area. I was using individual cheese cloth string. There was no rope visible. Wrapped a 3/4 of 28 gauge and it read .8 ohm. I had my doubts but this thing is rockin man. The rope wicks so well it keeps that cotton wet far better than mesh. I am on my 3rd tank and let me say the cotton still looks white. I am using a clear juice though. but the point is that it doesnt burn. thats why i tried it with a clear juice first. I do tip a little and only take like three hits at a time. I havent actually tried purposely running it dry YET. Its working too good. The best part about it is that it tastes amazing. And I am sure the rope will be in perfect condition afterwards which means I can boil and re-use. It took about a half a tank to really get it going. Im doing lung inhales and blowing huge thick milky clouds. I actually love my aga t2 now and im so glad i tried this. the rope does the wicking and the cotton does the soaking. i keep my fill hole open. I feel almost 100 percent safe in vaping with this system. I will never get a metalic taste or ever get the cotton to transfer enough heat to the rope to be of any concern of chromium 6. Basically i feel as if i have a cotton wicked dripper with a tank. Cotton is cheap. rope is cheap. wire is cheap. I finally feel better after 2 weeks of research, worry, and frustration.

as far as the ecowool and ss mesh on the aga t2. I tried it. 2mm is what i used. it frays like crazy. it works. its hard to get over the mesh. but i wasnt to keen on it so it didnt continue. I just dont like silica type material. dont get me wrong for silica lovers i think ecowool is great. it seemed to not taste as good or work as well as the cotton on top. maybe it was user error on my part, i dont know. I can tell you one this though anything on top of the mesh is better than mesh lol.

Now im actually thinking of getting a magoo (ithaka clone) and trying a cotton yarn build. those look really nice.

 

[Ill_Rev_J]

On another note. I was about to sell my aga t2 and right before I tried one last thing. I took my 3/32 ss rope and wrappped a fat section of cotton at the top coil area. I was using individual cheese cloth string. There was no rope visible. Wrapped a 3/4 of 28 gauge and it read .8 ohm. I had my doubts but this thing is rockin man. The rope wicks so well it keeps that cotton wet far better than mesh. I am on my 3rd tank and let me say the cotton still looks white. I am using a clear juice though. but the point is that it doesnt burn. thats why i tried it with a clear juice first. I do tip a little and only take like three hits at a time. I havent actually tried purposely running it dry YET. Its working too good. The best part about it is that it tastes amazing. And I am sure the rope will be in perfect condition afterwards which means I can boil and re-use. It took about a half a tank to really get it going. Im doing lung inhales and blowing huge thick milky clouds. I actually love my aga t2 now and im so glad i tried this. the rope does the wicking and the cotton does the soaking. i keep my fill hole open. I feel almost 100 percent safe in vaping with this system. I will never get a metalic taste or ever get the cotton to transfer enough heat to the rope to be of any concern of chromium 6. Basically i feel as if i have a cotton wicked dripper with a tank. Cotton is cheap. rope is cheap. wire is cheap. I finally feel better after 2 weeks of research, worry, and frustration.

How did you wrap the string? I myself have some organic, unbleached, now twice-boiled cotton butcher's twine. Did you just kind of wrap it tight then double back over?

as far as the ecowool and ss mesh on the aga t2. I tried it. 2mm is what i used. it frays like crazy. it works. its hard to get over the mesh. but i wasnt to keen on it so it didnt continue. I just dont like silica type material. dont get me wrong for silica lovers i think ecowool is great. it seemed to not taste as good or work as well as the cotton on top. maybe it was user error on my part, i dont know. I can tell you one this though anything on top of the mesh is better than mesh lol.

I've seen on YT that heating the silica up first makes it less prone to fraying, using a darning needle or other semi-blunt, think object will open it up. Search silica sleeve mesh on YouTube and you'll find it.

Now im actually thinking of getting a magoo (ithaka clone) and trying a cotton yarn build. those look really nice.

I saw those too on some vendor's shop. But I think I'm gonna wait till I perfect my RBA technique before I invest in something like the Russian or a genuine SvoeMesto. ($$$)

On a side note, have you tried dual wicking and dual coiling the AGA-T? That's my goal - plumes and plumes of vapor

 

[Rapture]

I wrapped the string with by taking an individual thread out of the cheese cloth and wrapping it around the top of the rope. i wrapped tight. and i double over like 10 times. its fat. i also wrapped the coil with the wick in place. i wrapped it tightly.

Yes torching the ecowool makes it so much easier to work with. still frays a bit though. but its like a must to torch.

 

[Rapture]

3/32 air hole

ss rope 3/32 7x19

cheesecloth threads wrapped around top

kanthal a-1 28 gauge 3/4wraps

Panasonic cgr18650ch high drain 10a

0.8 ohms

4.625 amps

17.1125 watts

3.7 volts


I found a new wicking material. these pics are after going through 4 tanks of about a 50/50 mix. I do tilt the mod but im not sure if its even necessary. Huge milkey white thick clouds. I had to dilute my 18mg with vg cause it was making me sick from too much nicotine. This cotton top wick is still white after 4 tanks. No hot spots. no shorts. tastes amazing i can actually taste my juice now. No worry of chromium 6 or silicosis. I feel for me this is the safest, easiest, way to vape. all the material can be purchased for dirt cheap. im sure the rope will be in pristine condition after i replace the cotton. I could probably re-use this rope for god knows how many times.

 

[Rapture]

i think i will try a dual coil on this aga t2 soon. i will post the results. i would imagine i would get double the vapor. or have to take half a drag to produce the same amount of vapor as i do now.

 

[Ill_Rev_J]

Awesome stuff, bro! And yeah, double-wicking will give hella vapor, from what I've seen...though it'll drain the juice like a Hummer. (Now if only my steel and AGA-T2 would arrive...) Glad to hear you've found something that works great, and feels safe(r).

 

[Rapture]

its 7x19 i havent tried the 7x7 yet.

 

[jshamm]

So I have some 400 ss mesh, do not have a torch and after reading much of this thread understand there can be some danger to that oxidization method. I've read elsewhere about "baking" the mesh in an oven. At what temps and for how long? Would this be a slightly safer method? I believe I saw to bake it for an hour at about 500 to 600 degrees.

 

[DrMA]

Just use a regular lighter to get a little oxide going on the mesh. No need for baking IMO.

 

[Ill_Rev_J]

So I have some 400 ss mesh, do not have a torch and after reading much of this thread understand there can be some danger to that oxidization method. I've read elsewhere about "baking" the mesh in an oven. At what temps and for how long? Would this be a slightly safer method? I believe I saw to bake it for an hour at about 500 to 600 degrees.

The thing is, if you're using a RBA (and even if not), you will have to dry burn the wick by getting the Kanthal red-hot in order to eliminate hot-spots and/or to clean the coil. So it will get exposed to higher temperatures nmw. However, I think the chances of releasing any significant amount of Cr(VI) appear to be minimal, as some posts above indicate. Perhaps oxidizing it at a controlled, lower temperature creates a 'safer' layer that doesn't allow for Cr(VI) formation? (I'm no metallurgist, so I'm purely speculating.)

All said, we don't know *for sure* so if you're not comfortable assuming some degree of risk, I'd advise the hybrid SS/cotton method like rapture got to work. (Of course, we don't know *for sure* much of anything...)

 

[Frank NJ]

Hi All,

I've been using rebuildables for a few months now with regular SS Mesh (400,500) and Kanthal wire oxidize the mesh over stove flame. I came across this thread and scared the beejeebies out of me. I notice that If I use a clear juice using this method that after a few days my clear juice gets darker and darker. What I need to know from you all is what is the best and safest way to use a rebuildable these days and can you show me a video of how it's done. I read on here about using mesh wick and putting an ekowool over it? Thanks for reading this and any help you can provide is very much appreciated.

Thanks Frank NJ

 

[Rapture]

Hi All,

I've been using rebuildables for a few months now with regular SS Mesh (400,500) and Kanthal wire oxidize the mesh over stove flame. I came across this thread and scared the beejeebies out of me. I notice that If I use a clear juice using this method that after a few days my clear juice gets darker and darker. What I need to know from you all is what is the best and safest way to use a rebuildable these days and can you show me a video of how it's done. I read on here about using mesh wick and putting an ekowool over it? Thanks for reading this and any help you can provide is very much appreciated.

Thanks Frank NJ

Some people use ceramic and have good results. Personally I used a stainless steel rope with a decent amount of 100% cotton wrapped around the coil area above the tank. I posted a pic of my build a thread or 2 back. It works great and I know its 100% safe. My clear juice stays clear and my rope is still shiny and new when i change the cotton.

 

[learjetz]

Regarding Chromium Oxides

 

[ScottP]

So I was thinking about using SS Rope in some builds then I heard about the Cr(VI) issue. I have read lots of threads and it seems the consensus is that to be safe we should not be torching SS, at least not to the point it glows. We also know that without building up some barrier between the coil and the SS wick, either through oxidation or using a separate non-conductive material like cotton, we WILL get shorts.

So far everyone has been focused on oxidizing or wrapping the wick. However, after looking at the picture of gdeal's coil back in post #56, I got to thinking, MAYBE we are trying to put the oxidized layer on the wrong thing! What if we build up the oxidized layer on the coils instead? We could build the coil on a drill bit, nail, etc. then mount it, and then dry burn the coil to heat it up and dip it in either ejuice or perhaps water with significant amounts of sugar dissolved in it to build up a coating like in the picture gdeal posted. A layer so cooked on that it won't easily scrape off. Then you could put in the UNoxidized SS wick and not have to worry about either conductivity or the Cr(VI).

I don't have my RBA yet, so I can't try it, but what do you guys think?

Also I did find this in my research:

Grade 316LVM is preferred where biocompatibility is required (such as body implants and piercings).[21] The "L" means that the carbon content of the alloy is below 0.03%, which reduces the sensitization effect (precipitation of chromium carbides at grain boundaries) caused by the high temperatures involved in welding.

Maybe we should try to find 316LVM quality SS mesh....if it exists as a mesh or a rope.

 

[Rapture]

So I was thinking about using SS Rope in some builds then I heard about the Cr(VI) issue. I have read lots of threads and it seems the consensus is that to be safe we should not be torching SS, at least not to the point it glows. We also know that without building up some barrier between the coil and the SS wick, either through oxidation or using a separate non-conductive material like cotton, we WILL get shorts.

So far everyone has been focused on oxidizing or wrapping the wick. However, after looking at the picture of gdeal's coil back in post #56, I got to thinking, MAYBE we are trying to put the oxidized layer on the wrong thing! What if we build up the oxidized layer on the coils instead? We could build the coil on a drill bit, nail, etc. then mount it, and then dry burn the coil to heat it up and dip it in either ejuice or perhaps water with significant amounts of sugar dissolved in it to build up a coating like in the picture gdeal posted. A layer so cooked on that it won't easily scrape off. Then you could put in the UNoxidized SS wick and not have to worry about either conductivity or the Cr(VI).

I don't have my RBA yet, so I can't try it, but what do you guys think?

Also I did find this in my research:


Maybe we should try to find 316LVM quality SS mesh....if it exists as a mesh or a rope.

Thats a really good idea. kanthal wire actually builds up a aluminum oxidation layer on its own after being heated, thats why the wire turns darker after heating. You can put the coil in your mod before you slide the rope or mesh in and heat it up pulsing it a bunch of times and create a layer. The sugar or water might work better. But I can tell you this, your gonna want to put ss mesh around that rope because of the irregular shape.

Theres always gonna be a worry in my head with ss mesh and ss rope touching the coil directly. Ive watched my coils get shorts and they heat up the mesh to glowing red instantly. The mesh being so thin, to me just isnt stable and i dont know what is going on when it get thats hot, or how hot it is actually getting. If you can find a way to build coils with no shorts and the mesh or rope never gets hot enough to glow at all please let me know.

In the mean time i just drip now with 100% cotton yarn. I love it. I love it so much i am addicted to buying drippers and mods from fasttech. I havent used anything but a dripper in a month. I havent had any worries lately and the cotton, lung hit, sub ohm experience is awesome. May drill out my aga t2 cap wick hole to accommodate a fat cotton yarn wick.

 

[thedesbois]

Thats a really good idea. kanthal wire actually builds up a aluminum oxidation layer on its own after being heated, thats why the wire turns darker after heating. You can put the coil in your mod before you slide the rope or mesh in and heat it up pulsing it a bunch of times and create a layer. The sugar or water might work better. But I can tell you this, your gonna want to put ss mesh around that rope because of the irregular shape.

Theres always gonna be a worry in my head with ss mesh and ss rope touching the coil directly. Ive watched my coils get shorts and they heat up the mesh to glowing red instantly. The mesh being so thin, to me just isnt stable and i dont know what is going on when it get thats hot, or how hot it is actually getting. If you can find a way to build coils with no shorts and the mesh or rope never gets hot enough to glow at all please let me know.

In the mean time i just drip now with 100% cotton yarn. I love it. I love it so much i am addicted to buying drippers and mods from fasttech. I havent used anything but a dripper in a month. I havent had any worries lately and the cotton, lung hit, sub ohm experience is awesome. May drill out my aga t2 cap wick hole to accommodate a fat cotton yarn wick.

Funny how this CR(VI) thing turned out for me too. I put my gennies aside and started dripping like you on cotton in my IGO-L. Now I'm hunting every new innovative dripper out there. 100% dripping now. Omega, Nimbus, IGO W etc. I get what you mean. Superb vape. Lung or mouth. So much flavor. And dripping grew on me. I like adding 10-15 drops at a time. Part of the "vaping ceremonial' now.

 

[Rapture]

Funny how this CR(VI) thing turned out for me too. I put my gennies aside and started dripping like you on cotton in my IGO-L. Now I'm hunting every new innovative dripper out there. 100% dripping now. Omega, Nimbus, IGO W etc. I get what you mean. Superb vape. Lung or mouth. So much flavor. And dripping grew on me. I like adding 10-15 drops at a time. Part of the "vaping ceremonial' now.

YES YES thats awesome Im the exact same way. I was so devastated after getting a aga t2 to hear about the CRVI. I used to think "who wants to take the time to drip" But you really have to try it to know exactly what your missing. everything in vaping has its pros and cons. The satisfaction i get out of lung hitting a nice build and blowing out thick clouds out weighs the fact i have to drip every 5 -10 puffs.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I don't know what the AGA T2 hole size is, but I just use the stock 3mm hole on my Stratus22 for cotton.
Wicks just fine .7 to .9 ohms.

 

[ScottP]

Thats a really good idea. kanthal wire actually builds up a aluminum oxidation layer on its own after being heated, thats why the wire turns darker after heating. You can put the coil in your mod before you slide the rope or mesh in and heat it up pulsing it a bunch of times and create a layer. The sugar or water might work better. But I can tell you this, your gonna want to put ss mesh around that rope because of the irregular shape.

Theres always gonna be a worry in my head with ss mesh and ss rope touching the coil directly. Ive watched my coils get shorts and they heat up the mesh to glowing red instantly. The mesh being so thin, to me just isnt stable and i dont know what is going on when it get thats hot, or how hot it is actually getting. If you can find a way to build coils with no shorts and the mesh or rope never gets hot enough to glow at all please let me know.

I can definitely understand how a glowing coil could heat the mesh to glowing when dry burning, but I doubt that it could heat SS rope to that point. The point of using the sugar water (or maybe salt water would be better) is to build up a crystallized layer on the inside of the coils that is non-metallic based. When sugar or salt are melted they can form a glass like coating. If you can build this up on the coil then it's not going to matter what touches it. Now that I think about it, salt might be better since it has a higher melting point, it might be more durable.

 

[Frank NJ]

All,

I ordered some SS rope and some more Ekowool. Can someone tell me how to properly prepare the SS rope and Ekowool? Do I boil then torch the SS rope and Ekowool Thanks ....