Stainless Steel mesh, Oxide discussion.

[Rapture]

All,

I ordered some SS rope and some more Ekowool. Can someone tell me how to properly prepare the SS rope and Ekowool? Do I boil then torch the SS rope and Ekowool Thanks ....

Its a good habit to boil everything before use. that is if it can withstand the heat. I would def boil the stainless steel rope. you could boil the eko wool then torch it till it glows. or you can just torch it till it glows to burn off any other stuff. but i would def torch the eko wool and boil the rope. Do not torch the rope it is not needed with eko wool on the top. Me sure there isnt a nylon piece or something running through the center of the the ss rope. if there is take it out. make sure the eko wool doesnt have anything else inside of it either. that is if its hallow inside.

 

[Rapture]

I don't know what the AGA T2 hole size is, but I just use the stock 3mm hole on my Stratus22 for cotton.
Wicks just fine .7 to .9 ohms.

The aga t2 wick hole is 3/32. yours looks a bit bigger than mine. but everything vape always looks bigger on camera or in a photo. i use to get my mods and drippers in the mail after watching reviews and looking at pics and be like "this thing is small"

but im glad to hear the cotton is working for you. im gonna try this. maybe ill do like a dripper with a doubled up tail going down into the tank or something. sounds fun.

thanks for posting the pics. looks good

 

[Rapture]

I can definitely understand how a glowing coil could heat the mesh to glowing when dry burning, but I doubt that it could heat SS rope to that point. The point of using the sugar water (or maybe salt water would be better) is to build up a crystallized layer on the inside of the coils that is non-metallic based. When sugar or salt are melted they can form a glass like coating. If you can build this up on the coil then it's not going to matter what touches it. Now that I think about it, salt might be better since it has a higher melting point, it might be more durable.

Sounds like interesting ideas. im sure there is something people can quench the coil in to get a layer. Please try these ideas and let us know.

 

[xyanide]

Guilty here of torching the crap out of my wicks, I started with genesis attys early this year. Almost all my wicks ended up with a blue-purple/dark sheen. My juice does go dark but I was pretty sure this was back-wash of burnt and/or caramelized particles. I hardly slept last night when I found this thread as I kept reading for hours on end, I just finished all 63 pages. I was also a bit skeptical if the temperatures produced would be enough to produce Cr(VI) and it's good to hear that it hasn't been found in the juice in high concentrations. Most information found on Cr(VI) formation is a bit vague when it comes to heating stainless steel. I just ordered me some SS rope and am out to find me some cotton balls until this matter is cleared up.
What I don't get though is this. Let's say we are constantly exposed to Cr(VI). Why is nobody suffering from any of the associated symptoms?

Nothing but respect to you Boden. Please could you edit the first post with all test results so people wouldn't have to dig through 63 pages to find some answers.
Wouldn't it be helpful to team up with CASAA? I read nothing about contacting them here and I'm sure they have a much bigger platform to gain funding/donations for extensive testing of the genesis vapor itself as they have done this before with common attys.

 

[DrMA]

Welcome to the discussion. As you've probably learnt by reading this whole thread, all currently available info and data suggest that the risk of getting exposed to hexavalent Cr during vaping is minimal. No reason to lose sleep over it...

That being said, ceramic wicks are much safer (theoretically and practically) and perform better than any stainless implement, so I'd recommend you look into that.

 

[Porksmuggler]

That being said, ceramic wicks are much safer (theoretically and practically) and perform better than any stainless implement, so I'd recommend you look into that.

I've heard the exact opposite about ceramics, any decent links?

 

[xyanide]

Thanks DrMA, I don't think ceramics are for me until they are readily available in my country.
For now I'll experiment with un-oxidized SS a bit more. I used the cotton-insulation method today and still at 10 Watts it's working fantastic for vapor and throathit, but the flavor... It's intense as always but I suddenly can't taste much nuance anymore. Like others found there's absolutely no back-wash of dark colored or charred-tasting juice so that is great indeed.
I used a hollow wick so I suspect I might need to fatten that up a bit more for my next build to try get some flavor back.

 

[DrMA]

I've heard the exact opposite about ceramics, any decent links?

There's a massive Ceramic thread right in this forum.

 

[Porksmuggler]

There's a massive Ceramic thread right in this forum.

I'm familiar with the thread, you're stating ceramics are safer than SS, ceramics that require contaminates and sizing typically to be removed with 700C heating. Any actual testing, links to safety data, etc?

 

[DrMA]

There's no need to be facetious. There's as much safety data about ceramics and vaping as there is for any other material including stainless: i.e. zero. However, a person with some knowledge of materials science and chemistry can make an informed guess as to whether there's more potential risk associated with one or the other.

So here the "informed" part:

• Fact: stainless contains Cr, which can be oxidized under certain conditions to yield Cr(VI), which is toxic
• Fact: sintered aluminum oxide ceramics are chemically inert and thermally stable to over 3500°F

And now the "guess" part: Barring any unsupported speculation about contaminants in either material, I'd say the potential risk of AO ceramics is lower than stainless.

 

[Porksmuggler]

There's no need to be facetious. There's as much safety data about ceramics and vaping as there is for any other material including stainless: i.e. zero. However, a person with some knowledge of materials science and chemistry can make an informed guess as to whether there's more potential risk associated with one or the other.

So here the "informed" part:

• Fact: stainless contains Cr, which can be oxidized under certain conditions to yield Cr(VI), which is toxic
• Fact: sintered aluminum oxide ceramics are chemically inert and thermally stable to over 3500°F

And now the "guess" part: Barring any unsupported speculation about contaminants in either material, I'd say the potential risk of AO ceramics is lower than stainless.

There is data for ceramics, even from the ceramic wicking materials' MSDS. Your informed facts omit important details.

"Under certain conditions" is very high temperatures, yielding trace Cr(VI).

Ceramic wicking materials, like those in use from Nextel contain sizing composed of organic polymers. If it is not properly and completely removed (which is unlikely) then a variety of unfriendly compounds are inhaled, acrylonitrile, carbon monoxide, dimethyl formamide, hydrogen cyanide, etc.

I've yet to find a ceramic wicking material that isn't known to be an upper respiratory irritant, but I'm all ears if you know of one, specifically.

 

[DrMA]

Not talking about Nextel, or XC-116 here, rather the solid, porous ceramics like the FC-2000 and such. The latter are sintered, ie fired in an oven at 3000F for a few hours. There's no way any organic material wouldn't be vaporized. The porous AO I'm talking about is almost pure 100% aluminum oxide.

 

[Dieseler]

Been useing the real DID for a year now prior it was the ScubaGen V3 with U wick anyone remember that ?
Anyways i learned thru his video's back then how to oxidize the mesh useing the stove and quench method with 400 and 500 ss mesh.
Nothing fancy except the quality MM Vapors DID20 .

I have tried different clones and had problems with hot spots simply because the wick hole is not close enough to the positive post.
Eventually i can get them with no hot spots but there a pain.

Eveyones different but have 5- DID20s and need nothing fancy like the nextel - cotton -FC2000s etc and have tried them all.
Mesh works excellent for me.

Hope you find what works well for you.

 

[AutoMax]

Any one want to buy a sheet of #500 Mesh [made just one wick from it] ? LOL, looks like I just found a good excuse to rebuild my RSST RBA with some silica tonight XD

 

[DrMA]

Any one want to buy a sheet of #500 Mesh [made just one wick from it] ? LOL, looks like I just found a good excuse to rebuild my RSST RBA with some silica tonight XD

The RSST is the perfect RBA to use with ceramics. I've got 2 of them...

 

[Dieseler]

Any one want to buy a sheet of #500 Mesh [made just one wick from it] ? LOL, looks like I just found a good excuse to rebuild my RSST RBA with some silica tonight XD

LOL - wish i still had the closeup picture of itsy bitsy pieces of silica i took long ago of silica under the drip tip.

Found the picture it was inverted as they were hard to see, back in the day it was a vision stone or something along those lines.
Pictured is bottom of drip dip the darker spots are fine pieces of silica working there way up the tip.
Very hard to see but it convinced me to no longer use silica as that was not the first time i saw it.

 

[AutoMax]

LOL - wish i still had the closeup picture of itsy bitsy pieces of silica i took long ago of silica under the drip tip.

Found the picture it was inverted as they were hard to see, back in the day it was a vision stone or something along those lines.
Pictured is bottom of drip dip the darker spots are fine pieces of silica working there way up the tip.
Very hard to see but it convinced me to no longer use silica as that was not the first time i saw it.

Damn it, can't use SS mesh, can't use silica, so now what? Hemp, cotton, ceramic? Until we figure out that it too is harmful ? >,< I guess it's still better than analogs by a long shot.

Edit: I'll probably use a small amount of cotton on top of the wicks. One to hold more juice close to the coils and 2 to act as a light filter to catch the migrating silica pictured above. Thoughts ?

 

[xyanide]

You can still completely safely use SS unoxidized or when it's gunked up (or lightly oxidized at lower temperatures). Using SS cable is pretty cool too! I use one of those with boiled cotton wrapped around the tip. Make sure you get a good set of cutters before your cable arrives, this stuff is a pain in the neck to cut without proper tools. I found that even after a bunch of juice-burn runs over the SS cable I still can't wrap a coil directly onto it.

*edit* Today some woven silica tube arrived and i'm planning to combine it with the cable as an insulator. These woven variants are less prone to fraying and make for a very neat setup. It fits perfectly, simply order the same diameter as your cable.

 

[Dieseler]

Automax in my humble opinion i see nothing wrong with ss mesh by itself properly oxidized -just takes practice when wrapping kanthal around it to tight and the oxidation barrier on the mesh is compromised .

Hint after cutting length of Kanthal run a lighter under that piece first to make it limp its easier to wrap around the mesh.

 

[AutoMax]

This is my RSST RBA setup. Was my 2nd coil ever after my chimbus.

Using #500 mesh and flat kanthal (.9 I think). I think around 1ohm if I remember correctly.

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