Standing up for vaping.

[zoiDman]

@zoiDman

Your definitely right about a higher power being manifested in many ways but...

I think that op has expressed his views as faith in some sort of intangible manifestation.

Edit: bad wording. Sorry, not fear.

'if I surrender to a higher power aren't I clean before the eyes of the higher power?'
Perhaps I am wrong but I cannot imagine a single person surrendering/and hoping for cleanliness in the eyes of us...
The guys and gals who chat on ecf?

Perhaps I am wrong and their is a lot of power in you guys.
I guess I just never thought of it like that.
Just thought of it as a friendly chat.

I Dunno?

It's so hard sometimes to Know what a Person is trying to say by the Words they use. Because what a Word might mean to Me could be Different to what a Word means to them.

Hence the Reason for my post.

I don't know what this Statement Means...

'if I surrender to a higher power aren't I clean before the eyes of the higher power?'

It could have be More of a Metaphoric Meaning that the OP's Sister would better Understand? Or it have more of a Literal Meaning? Or it could have a degree of Sarcasms or Snark to it?

I dunno?

 

[KenD]

Some see a Higher Power as a Power Greater than Themselves.

This could be some Dude in a White Robe and Sandals. Or a Multi-Armed Being. Or it could be the Collective Knowledge of a Group like the ECF.

A Power Greater than Oneself can be a Lot of things. And can be Manifested in Many Forms to some.

Doesn't dispute my point that it's always better to find the strength and conviction within oneself. Relying on externals is inherently volatile.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Zutankhamun]

I Dunno?

It's so hard sometimes to Know what a Person is trying to say by the Words they use. Because what a Word might mean to Me could be Different to what a Word means to them.

Hence the Reason for my post.

I don't know what this Statement Means...

'if I surrender to a higher power aren't I clean before the eyes of the higher power?'

It could have be More of a Metaphoric Meaning that the OP's Sister would better Understand? Or it have more of a Literal Meaning? Or it could have a degree of Sarcasms or Snark to it?

I dunno?

Sir, I like your thinking. I am a pessimist and ima thinking the verbatim can be taken in a literal sense.
Perhaps op could enlighten us?

I guess I am delving to deep and perhaps this forum is not the place for such a philosophical discussion on belief (or lack of it), faith and higher power.

But...

I dunno either

 

[zoiDman]

Doesn't dispute my point that it's always better to find the strength and conviction within oneself. Relying on externals is inherently volatile.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

Could be. And I would say if this Works the Best for you, than that is the Best way to go thru Life.

And a word like Relying or Reliance could have Varying Degrees of Meaning depending on Who was Asked. And in what Context it was used.

 

[HauntedMyst]

I recently posted in this forum, a thread about my sister telling me basically I should give up vaping else I will get cancer , and/or damage my lungs.​

My sister told me the same thing at Thanksgiving. Some people just can't have an open dialog so she'll still be wearing the finger splint for Christmas! She was praying to some higher power for me to let go of her finger when she wouldn't shut up.

 

[VHRB2014]

Doesn't dispute my point that it's always better to find the strength and conviction within oneself. Relying on externals is inherently volatile.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

Look, I don`t want to argue with you, but if the real addict had the strength and convictions within themselves they would`nt be addicts. I know, I know, self knowledge is everything, all its takes is a little more self knowledge. BOL.

 

[KenD]

Look, I don`t want to argue with you, but if the real addict had the strength and convictions within themselves they would`nt be addicts. I know, I know, self knowledge is everything, all its takes is a little more self knowledge. BOL.

Getting help from others, for example in rehab, is different from placing your "destiny" in someone else's hands. I'm a tobacco addict (an addiction that's more difficult to escape than pretty much any other) and while vaping, and the ecf community, helped me, the ultimate responsibility and work was my own. Relying on a "higher power" might backfire if/and when trust in that higher power falters.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Zutankhamun]

Look, I don`t want to argue with you, but if the real addict had the strength and convictions within themselves they would`nt be addicts. I know, I know, self knowledge is everything, all its takes is a little more self knowledge. BOL.

Weakness and a lack of conviction cannot be applied to every case of addiction.

 

[ppeeble]

So i failed. It must have been a higher power that wanted me to fail. Right ? Right ?

 

[MMW]

This is always a dicey topic on any forum.

 

[motordude]

Whoa! Dude, this is deep!

 

[Bad Ninja]

The first step in a 12 step program is admitting total defeat.
Second and third steps are askinggod to take control of youre life.
The other steps are about introspection and penance.


Telling addicts their only hope is to give up and pray isnt my idea of clinical help for a physical addiction.
Its primitive.

 

[zoiDman]

The first step in a 12 step program is admitting total defeat.
Second and third steps are askinggod to take control of youre life.
The other steps are about introspection and penance.


Telling addicts their only hope is to give up and pray isnt my idea of clinical help for a physical addiction.
Its primitive.

Are you speaking for All 12 Steps Programs?

 

[Smoke_too_much]

But I do not understand, if I surrender to a higher power aren't I clean before the eyes of the higher power? Can't I show some self control because I acknowledge the higher power?
​

Very Respectfully,
Zanderist.

What ??????

..... California....

Ah OK, got it.

 

[MMW]

Having gone through the 12 steps formally more than once, it's far more than a figurehead god/faith method. For me personally it was to acknowledge/work on my negative characteristics that kept me enthralled in my junkie lifestyle, and embrace the positive aspects of my character. To admit defeat in this case is putting aside my ego and pride and being willing to get help.

Fwiw, I have no figurehead/god in my life, but just a set of basic principles.
4yrs clean in March.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Fwiw, I have no figurehead/god in my life, but just a set of basic principles.
4yrs clean in March.

Right On MMW.

The Promises Do come True don't they?

 

[Bad Ninja]

Are you speaking for All 12 Steps Programs?

I was refering to AAs 12 step program from which all other 12 step programs are derrived.
The main theme in all of them is to "admit you are powerless" and "submit/turn yourself over to a higher power".

Admit defeat, pray for help.

 

[KenD]

Telling addicts their only hope is to give up and pray isnt my idea of clinical help for a physical addiction.
Its primitive.

And that's being generous...

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

I was refering to AAs 12 step program from which all other 12 step programs are derrived.
The main theme in all of them is to "admit you are powerless" and "submit/turn yourself over to a higher power".

Admit defeat, pray for help.

Gotcha.

From Chapter 5 of the "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

• 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

I guess a person could Interoperate this as themselves being "Powerless".

I Interoperate it as "Powerless" over Alcohol.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Gotcha.

From Chapter 5 of the "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

• 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

I guess a person could Interoperate this as themselves being "Powerless".

I Interoperate it as "Powerless" over Alcohol.

Sorry, as english is my first language, I dont interpret it in any other way than its clealy written.

"Admitting one is powerless" over their addiction, is pretty clear.


Dr Rober J Lifton wrote a great book in 1961 where he studied thought reform and "brainwashing" (I hate that word) techniques used on POWs, etc.

Its interesting comparing the effective methods to a standard 12 step program.

Again, its a control system.