Starting a genesis build

[Akya2120]

I am going to build a genesis. I've recently found I have a connection to a lathe and a machinist to teach me so I a going to build one. I will be posting about the process and progress of the construction. With summer around the corner I may just be able to get enough of my own time to do this. I am creating mine off the concept of willpro 13's. I am planning to order as many of my parts from mcmaster-carr as I can get the pieces same or next day from my buddies shop(maybe even a discount too ).

I will be turning the center structure from 5/8" 304 SS rod. I would post the links but mcmaster won't give url links to the specific part. I will post the part numbers to make it easier to find. 3 ft, 26$ 1301T191.

I have 304, 325 SS mesh I got from someone here, but will be ordering 400 because from what I've read it's the way to go. 20.50$ 1ftx1ft 85385T885.

I will be using 3/4"OD, 5/8"ID polycarbonate tubing. It's 1.73 per foot 8585K13.

These will be my O rings I believe. 1/2" ID, 11/16" OD. I say I believe because I don't know how tolerances work on O rings. 5577K112 11.51$ for 30. I think OBEER was recommending these style. I also believe I need some small O rings for around the mesh. I don't know what size or if I want multiple different IDs for different mesh roll size?

I will probably find some stainless steel nuts and bolts for terminals in my garage. I also don't know if this is the easiest way. I've read some good stuff about using silver crimp tubes but I am unsure of how they are used. I was assuming they get crimped into the nut and bolt on one end and then you crimp the other around the kanthal/nichrome.

As for the kanthal wire, seemingly people are still looking for a good supplier. I am going to send mcmaster an email and ask if they have it. They have nichrome wire but it doesn't come up when you search it. They have it listed as nickel-chromium chromel C. So maybe they have kanthal under a different name, too. I already have 15 ft of chromel 60 from mad vapes which I will use until I can get my hands on some kanthal at a decent price. Hopefully from mcmaster because it will show up same or next day.

I think I covered all the build materials here. Please correct me if I am wrong. Advice and input will be very appreciated. Obviously I need a little more info on a couple of things(I forgot what gauge kanthal I need, I need a couple more O rings on my list, and I don't know how to setup O ring tolerances). This order will probably be made immediately after I talk to this machinist, find out the stuff I need to know, and get a bit of cash together. In other words, planning on within the week. We will see how plans go, heh.

Thanks for reading.

 

[vereybowring]

I will watch your progress with interest as I too plan to build a genesis - please keep us updated.
I plan to build a "budget" genesis using syringe tubes as the tank and have been talking to a supplier about custom made delrin centre pieces to mount the atty on since I don't have access to or space for a lathe.
My designs cost will all come down to the basic cost of the delrin section as the rest of the cost are negligible.
Marine grade steel nuts and bolts can be bought cheaply, as can the syringes and o-rings.
I am going to get a spool of kanthal for about £5 ($8) delivered which is 10 metres.
I was estimating to get enough parts to make 30 of them will cost me about £30-35 ($50-60) all in.
Then I just need to build them !

 

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Hi Akya,
I've just gotten some of my stuff in from McMaster yesterday. So, I'm almost ready to start building as well. Unfortunately, by batteries won't be here till sometime next week and I really need those to see if I can squeek by with my .71 ID tubing. The batteries are supposed to be 18mm (.7087) +/- .2mm (.0079) so it's going to be mighty mighty close. The tube is only .75 OD so I don't have much room to work with and I plan on squeaking a 47/64"-64 thread in there as well.

Oh, BTW, I'm pretty sure I ordered the same tube for my tank as you.

Anway, This: http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD 5700 Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf should be all you've ever wanted to know about O-Ring grooves and such.

Good luck on your project!

 

[Gummy Bear]

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[Akya2120]

So, I found kanthal... I checked amazon.

36 gauge
Amazon.com: Resistance Heater Wire, Kanthal A-1, 36 AWG 0.005": Everything Else
32 gauge
http://www.amazon.com/Resistance-He...G2LW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1304066682&sr=8-2
which is a better gauge to start with?

Can't seem to find a specific length. It says it comes in 100, 500, and 1000 foot lengths. I'm guessing it's 100?

Only twenty left of the 36 gauge so order fast hah. I emailed the distributor seeing if they have more.

Can anyone recommend an O ring size for a 5/8 ID polycarbonate tube? I tried to find what I was looking for in that parker o ring book but there is way too much info for me to figure this out so I can order this later in the AM. If not I'll just order them later when I figure that out.

 

[PKZap27]

The MAP tank has a polycarbonate tube with a 5/8 inch ID and the O-Ring size for the MAP tank is; AS568A Dash Number 013.

AS568A Dash No. O-Ring Sizing Chart

The O-Ring Measurements are; ID: 7/16" x OD: 9/16" x Width: 1/16"

However, I believe that you would have to cut your O-Ring grove the same size (or close to the same size) as the MAP tank groove to get it to seal properly using this size O-Ring.

I've seen different size O-Rings seal the same size ID tubing.

Hope this helps and good luck with your genesis build.

PK

 

[Akya2120]

See I was thinking the 014 would work. It is a 1/2" ID X 5/8" OD.

Hmmmm well being as I know nothing about making an O ring seal properly I'm going to guess that the people who make MAP tanks know what they are doing. I'll pick those 013s tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[Gummy Bear]

Go read this and you will know more about O rings than you need to.
http://www.qualityseals.com/pdfs/groovedesignandoringinstallation.pdf

 

[Turbo]

which is a better gauge to start with?

You want 32g or 34g, most prefer 32g.

 

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Check your PM,
Good luck on the Kanthal.... I got them to put the Kanthal on Amazon but the general consensus is that 36 AWG is useless for our application and the 32 AWG is darned expensive.

An exerpt from what I PM'd you since it may help others:


I'm using an AS568 - 014 O-Ring. If you look that up in the Parker O-Ring handbook you will find some dimensions for machining the groove. Since we are using it for a seal instead of under pressure a little adjustment may be necessary too. Also, remember that the tube you are buying (if it's the same as mine) has a +/- .040 tolerance so you will want to wait to machine your plugs until after you get the tube and can measure it.



An example:

The nominal O.D. of my plug is .625 so I planned a .500 Dia. groove that's .078 wide for my O-Ring but my tube came in at .629 so I'm going to increase my groove Dia. to .509 or so. The O-Rings themselves are manufactured little smaller than .500 I.D. , a little bigger than .625 O.D., and wider than .0625 so I want my groove bigg enough to allow the O-Ring to fill it as it is compressed so that I don't put too much pressure on the tube.

Are my dimensions right? They're perfectly fine if all I want is a seal but since I also need them to hold things together, I won't know for sure until I get the parts all together and I may have to tweak the groove after so I'll probably start out with the groove a little on the plus side. The main variable here; because we want it to hold stuff together, is the durometer of the O-Ring.

Wow, I'll stop rambling now...

 

[MickeyRat]

I've been following these genesis threads with some interest. One thing that bothers me about every map type tank I've seen is the idea of using o-rings for holding things together. Most of the problems I've read about with this style of tank come down to doing that and I believe that the cracking mentioned in some places is the result of fatigue stresses from the o-rings causing small degrees of flex in the tube. Using polycarbonate as a tube material will help. However, I think in the end, you would be better served to use o-rings to seal and devise something else to provide structural soundness. I can see this being threads in the tube plugs but, an external clamp would probably be easier to build.

 

[PKZap27]

I think in the end, you would be better served to use o-rings to seal and devise something else to provide structural soundness. I can see this being threads in the tube plugs but, an external clamp would probably be easier to build.

Do you have any pictures or drawings of, or maybe you would like to elaborate on what you are talking about here?

 

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

I've been following these genesis threads with some interest. One thing that bothers me about every map type tank I've seen is the idea of using o-rings for holding things together. Most of the problems I've read about with this style of tank come down to doing that and I believe that the cracking mentioned in some places is the result of fatigue stresses from the o-rings causing small degrees of flex in the tube. Using polycarbonate as a tube material will help. However, I think in the end, you would be better served to use o-rings to seal and devise something else to provide structural soundness. I can see this being threads in the tube plugs but, an external clamp would probably be easier to build.

There's another design that someone came up with in the genisis thread that uses a solid center spindle and orings only to seal. That may be more along the lines you're thinking. Also,the OP And I are going to use polycarbonate (lexan). The others were using acrylic which is more brittle.

 

[PKZap27]

There's another design that someone came up with in the genisis thread that uses a solid center spindle and orings only to seal. That may be more along the lines you're thinking. Also,the OP And I are going to use polycarbonate (lexan). The others were using acrylic which is more brittle.

Intersting, I'll have to keep a mental note of this as I read through that thread, since you didn't provide a link, also, I understand why you may not have provided a link seeing how big the thread is.

Thanks for the info OBeer!

 

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Intersting, I'll have to keep a mental note of this as I read through that thread, since you didn't provide a link, also, I understand why you may not have provided a link seeing how big the thread is.

Thanks for the info OBeer!

Sorry, I'm on my Xoom, and as good as it is for surfing and reading it's no computer when it comes to searching down links and such. I'd guess what you are looking for is about 20 pages from the end of the "some home made attys and genisis " thread. Also, I believe the U.S. co-op build discussed within that thread (near the end) is going to use that design.

 

[PKZap27]

Sorry, I'm on my Xoom, and as good as it is for surfing and reading it's no computer when it comes to searching down links and such. I'd guess what you are looking for is about 20 pages from the end of the "some home made attys and genisis " thread. Also, I believe the U.S. co-op build discussed within that thread (near the end) is going to use that design.

Great! another thread I'll have to hunt down and read, just what I needed.

This "U.S. co-op build" thread, that you speak of, is it in the "Modders Forum" section of the ECF forum?

TIA

 

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Great! another thread I'll have to hunt down and read, just what I needed.

This "U.S. co-op build" thread, that you speak of, is it in the "Modders Forum" section of the ECF forum?

TIA

Both are in this huge catch all thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/135786-some-homemade-attys-genesis.html
and yes, I read the whole thing....
I'm not sure if there is a separate build thread for the co-op. I think they are using the catch all thread as well.

 

[PKZap27]

Both are in this huge catch all thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modders-forum/135786-some-homemade-attys-genesis.html
and yes, I read the whole thing....
I'm not sure if there is a separate build thread for the co-op. I think they are using the catch all thread as well.

Gotcha!

Thanks for the feedback.

I would have been searching for that thread forever, seeing how it doesn't exist. LOL.

I'm guessing I would have eventually realized it once I read through the other thread though.

I'm just finishing up Raidy's thread and then onto the "Some homemade attys and genesis" thread.

 

[Gummy Bear]

Also,the OP And I are going to use polycarbonate (lexan). The others were using acrylic which is more brittle.

I think that up till now almost everyone has used lexan but the co-op guys are planing on using the acrylic.

 

[PKZap27]

I think that up till now almost everyone has used lexan but the co-op guys are planing on using the acrylic.

Hey Gummy, thanks for the clean up in isle... clearing that up for us.