Starting a genesis build
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Dan, I like the removable mouthpiece version, much easier to get to. Have you got the tolerance for the mouthpiece so that it touches the metal or just the o-ring?
The mouthpiece will just touch the o-ring, I am working on building this version currently. I plan to bevel the two pieces of poly tubing so the bottom one has an inside bevel @ 45 degrees and the top one has an outside bevel of 45 degrees. This way it will fit together and provide side to side support.
Dan
Sweet. You've got that stem for tank stability, I've gone to 4 o-rings on just about all of them, but deeper grooves for the mouthpiece so that it comes off easier. 2 o-rings is just too flexible.
i.e. like this:
One o-ring for the actual mouth piece adapter, and one o-ring for the poly to main body adapter, but with beveled poly tubing....
Make sense?
Dan
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Sure nuff! Oh yeah, the actual mouthpiece adapter... I've got 2 more in there, so it takes 6 per atty LOL. That I never take out though it just stays in the cap and one o-ring for stability on the cap is actually a slice of carto condom and not much of a groove. I wouldn't mind a pill fob for a mouthpiece, but the HF smalls were only 14mm and i got other 'bison tubes' but they are pretty much the same size and have 'made in china' etched into the base. Could be more compact, but wobbly and the lines are off.
Well I only have one o-ring in the current (v2) of my GEN and I have to pry it off. Holds really well with only one o-ring.
Now I have refilled this about 6 time, and it is work like the day I first started. I had to redo the coil once, but I added 32ga @ 2ohms and it is vaping like a champ.
Will like it better when I can remove only the top when I have to change the coil.
Will post update pics.
Dan
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ok well I will probably use your split the tube in two pieces with a bevel design and still use two O rings but one will hold the top and one will hold the bottom. I want two for the mouthpiece and lower piece so they don't move, or is this over kill? I won't have a bottom retainer that is why I was using two there. I just put those in the right places in my cad drawing I can easily shift them else where.
with lexan, It doesn't like to be expanded. So a single tight O ring wouldn't be as good as 2 loose ones.
I can see why you would need two for the bottom since there is no lip to stop the tube from comming down.
with lexan, It doesn't like to be expanded. So a single tight O ring wouldn't be as good as 2 loose ones.
Well I have since reajusted my oring groove depth and now it is just about perfect, tight but not so I have to fight it off
If the depth is not right you will have double the friction with two orings
Dan
Also worth noting, if you carry it around in your pocket, the top of the tank isn't so likely to wiggle off, it might just become slightly crooked. The protruding mouthpiece very likely will fall off. Picking pocket lint off #400 mesh is no fun, especially without mouse tools handy.
Well here she is... a dry fitted SCUBAGEN v3:
Just need to add a connector, wiring and drill some holes...
Dan
Just need to add a connector, wiring and drill some holes...
Dan
Please tell me that these will be going on sale. That is beautiful. Looks virtually leak proof...
I can see why you would need two for the bottom since there is no lip to stop the tube from comming down.
Well I have since reajusted my oring groove depth and now it is just about perfect, tight but not so I have to fight it off
If the depth is not right you will have double the friction with two orings
Dan
What is your O ring depth compaired to your size? Is there any way to get the proper size for my 5/8" ID tubing from your 3/4" ID tubing? I have 5/8" OD SS that I will probably take 1/64" off of to allow for tolerance. Does that sound right? Seemingly the O rings and tolerances are the hardest part about designing these. I was hoping my machinist/teacher would be able to help me with it, but I would rather have it figured out before hand. I am going in tomorrow at two to talk to the machinist and he will teach me how to operate the lathe. Maybe I will have my first prototype done tomorrow
I might have to make the cap from some metal as the acrylic I ordered may not be here before I get to the machine shop. Thanks in advance!
So these are my technical drawings. Hopefully they get the job done at the machinist tomorrow. Hopefully I haven't messed something up either. I'm bringing my laptop with cad on it just in case. I'm still not quite sure about the O ring groove size. I will talk to my machinist about it. Scuba I used your idea, but changed it a bit. Might not be possible so I might have to just do the 45% bevel anyway, but If it works I think it might sit a little prettier. Anyway enough chatter, let me know what you think.
First off, let me say that I like your boss and counterbore idea to keep the top two pieces aligned but your machinist is going to want to know the tolerances. For instance, make your counterbore .6875 +.005/-0 and make your boss on the opposing piece .6865 +0/-.005 You are going to need this anywhere that you want to maintain a fit. Notice, that I gave the counterbore a nominal that's closest to 11/16, this is because it's harder to measure than an O.D and they can use an 11/16 pin to help measure it.
The only other thing is that Dan's idea will be self-centering and yours will be subject to the tolerance you give it, you could always change it a bit if it matters, to incorporate both ideas.
As far as the O.D. of the pieces that have an O-Ring groove in them, I'm doing a "slip fit" to the ID of the tube. Basically that is about a .001 clearance. This will give the stability. As I sad before, I'm going to adjust the diameter of the O-Ring groove to make it fit the way I want.
My suggestion is to bring the lexan with you and when the machinist gets to the oring groove have him start out a little big on diameter and put the oring on it while it's still in the lathe and try to slide the lexan over it. Wash, rinse, repeat until you've got what you want. That's what I'm going to do and it will only take an extra five minutes.
The only other thing is that Dan's idea will be self-centering and yours will be subject to the tolerance you give it, you could always change it a bit if it matters, to incorporate both ideas.
As far as the O.D. of the pieces that have an O-Ring groove in them, I'm doing a "slip fit" to the ID of the tube. Basically that is about a .001 clearance. This will give the stability. As I sad before, I'm going to adjust the diameter of the O-Ring groove to make it fit the way I want.
My suggestion is to bring the lexan with you and when the machinist gets to the oring groove have him start out a little big on diameter and put the oring on it while it's still in the lathe and try to slide the lexan over it. Wash, rinse, repeat until you've got what you want. That's what I'm going to do and it will only take an extra five minutes.
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Yep, I slip fit also to the resistance I want, after doing this a couple time I have found that my target OD is .73 for shaft to slide easily into the poly tubing, and the o-ring measurements is .64. Now I measured this about three times to make sure.
Shaft .73 - Groove .64 = .09, now we have to divide by two since we are using a caliber to measure from either side, so the measurement must be cut in half for each side. So .09/2 = .045 the o-rings are .0625 in thickness 1/16" So .0625-.045 = .0175, I have .0175 of o-ring rubber protruding from the groove. Since .75 - .73 = .02 we have to divide by two to get the space around the circumference .02/2 = .01 so .0175 - .01 = .0075 / 2 = . 00375 inches of rubber for friction.
Maybe this will help:
SS from my excel formulas:
Here is the excel file if you want to play with it:
View attachment o-ring groove calc.xls
Hope this helps
Dan
Shaft .73 - Groove .64 = .09, now we have to divide by two since we are using a caliber to measure from either side, so the measurement must be cut in half for each side. So .09/2 = .045 the o-rings are .0625 in thickness 1/16" So .0625-.045 = .0175, I have .0175 of o-ring rubber protruding from the groove. Since .75 - .73 = .02 we have to divide by two to get the space around the circumference .02/2 = .01 so .0175 - .01 = .0075 / 2 = . 00375 inches of rubber for friction.
Maybe this will help:
SS from my excel formulas:
Here is the excel file if you want to play with it:
View attachment o-ring groove calc.xls
Hope this helps
Dan
This really does look awesome! Very nice work. Your attention to detail is amazing Dan and your contributions to this community are priceless! Thanks so much.
if you guys need some quick starting ideas for o-ring groove dimensions you can check out oringswest.com You'll still have to do some math of course, but they have a good list of sizes and design guidelines.
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