I do it with all new atomizers regardless of whether I can sense the machine oil smell. Who knows what was on the hands of the person who packed it?
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I do it with all new atomizers regardless of whether I can sense the machine oil smell. Who knows what was on the hands of the person who packed it?
Steeping is not something I consider a subject of concern. Some juices change a little with aging; some change a lot. I mix many mixes per session and everything gets 4 weeks min. and more often, 2-3 months is not unusual. It's all about managing what you mix vs what you have left in stock. I believe If a mix is not good or has not approached my minimal taste acceptance (after a few shakes various times through the aging process) the mix is a failure. If the taste is good only after 2-3 weeks and goes down hill, it's not for me. If anyone believes a more rigorous mechanical/thermal intervention hastens and improves your mix, go for it.
Might like to read:
DIY Mythbusting • r/DIY_eJuice
Everything you wanted to know about steeping and then some. | E-Cigarette Forum
Good advice from BrotherBob! I can say that my favorite recipe I’ve written is better inside a few weeks of age. So it can be tricky. Thats why most will suggest sampling your mix at certain intervals, etc. If it’s something I know without a doubt will need at least a couple of weeks, I won’t touch it because I know it’ll be worth the wait. If it’s one I’m not sure how long of a steep it needs, I’ll take an educated guess and start sampling about 3 days early. Based on how it taste, then, is when I determine how long to wait before sampling again. I asked very similar questions on the link I sent you from here about DIY Q’s. And though I got great answers, until you know you just don’t know. I highly suggest using the search browser at the top and search your questions there and then whatever questions you have afterwards, ask away as you have been. It’ll help you understand DIY as a whole better and be able to ask the right questions to help you better. The more you know prior, the more you’ll be able to make sense outa everyones advice. And don’t forget, have fun with it!
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I still have much to learn! While I always clean the outside of everything, I guess I assumed the inside would be clean. Hindsight, seems pretty obvious!
I got a UC for steeping but have found on my mixing schedule and with my flavors, it's not necessary at all, so I don't do it. I will say it's useful for cleaning tanks and etc. so I'm happy I have it.
Fruits, berries and one shots may not require much steeping at all. Same with sweetener, you can often just shake and vape (if you find mixes that need sweetening).
I usually don't taste anything I mix for at least a week (unless it's a new flavor, a citrus, or another flavor that can fade). Many people will make larger batches of flavors they use a lot that need more steeping (a month or more) and use it with flavors that may fade faster.
Single flavors, well, it depends, but I don't expect to get "the ideal state" for a flavor in less than a week. There's nothing wrong with trying heat steeping or a UC to speed things along, especially at first, although too much of it can lead to flavor loss, IMO. It's the main reason I try to keep my mixing to once a month, although I have older flavors hanging around (primarily a tiramisu) that was godawful when I mixed it but has mellowed considerably (it's about 2 or 3 months old). I do keep some of my failed mixes around for more steeping, on occasion (depending on the type of flavor) before I try to fix a "failed" mix.
Best of luck, I find time to be the most reliable and predictable so that is what I use (with a good shaking every now and again.)
Anna
Fruits, berries and one shots may not require much steeping at all. Same with sweetener, you can often just shake and vape (if you find mixes that need sweetening).
I usually don't taste anything I mix for at least a week (unless it's a new flavor, a citrus, or another flavor that can fade). Many people will make larger batches of flavors they use a lot that need more steeping (a month or more) and use it with flavors that may fade faster.
Single flavors, well, it depends, but I don't expect to get "the ideal state" for a flavor in less than a week. There's nothing wrong with trying heat steeping or a UC to speed things along, especially at first, although too much of it can lead to flavor loss, IMO. It's the main reason I try to keep my mixing to once a month, although I have older flavors hanging around (primarily a tiramisu) that was godawful when I mixed it but has mellowed considerably (it's about 2 or 3 months old). I do keep some of my failed mixes around for more steeping, on occasion (depending on the type of flavor) before I try to fix a "failed" mix.
Best of luck, I find time to be the most reliable and predictable so that is what I use (with a good shaking every now and again.)
Anna
I have this on my list to write once I master a coffee beverage, if possible
Any "donts” to keep in mind or that you learned when making tiramisu?
I used a tiramisu flavor (at some point if you want, I will look it up) but not right now. I can't remember who made it. It just tasted harsh and chemically for a long time. I've heard coffee can require more steeping, and I did add some other flavorings, but it tasted pretty bad for a long time. It also tasted enough like tiramisu that I decided to just let it age more.
I would say, start low on your percentages, and let things steep for... a while. Sorry, I don't have a ton to offer, I like tiramisu and I actually LIKE coffee but drink enough of it that rushing out to buy a bunch of coffee flavors seemed... Unnecessary.
Sort of like a diet pepsi vape
Never went after that one, either. I know some folks really like coffee vapes I want to say @Letitia and a couple other folks, but I am not the one to give you coffee advice, unless you are searching out how to drink as much of it as humanly possible and etc. LOL.
Anna
I would say, start low on your percentages, and let things steep for... a while. Sorry, I don't have a ton to offer, I like tiramisu and I actually LIKE coffee but drink enough of it that rushing out to buy a bunch of coffee flavors seemed... Unnecessary.
Sort of like a diet pepsi vape
Never went after that one, either. I know some folks really like coffee vapes I want to say @Letitia and a couple other folks, but I am not the one to give you coffee advice, unless you are searching out how to drink as much of it as humanly possible and etc. LOL.Anna
No, no need to look it up but I appreciate the offer! Really just wanted to avoid having that one mix I avoid, lol! I’ll start low and steep long, got it. That helps! I love coffee and, at times, its probably pretty close to my DIY ejuice hobby. I have all the unsweetened flavor syrups and make my own creamers, etc. So I wasn’t planning on doing a DIY coffee juice. However, my sister requested it and I don’t have the heart to tell her what a time I’m having of it. "I know coffee, I’ve got this!" I thought it’d be simple which has taught me another DIY learning experienceI used a tiramisu flavor (at some point if you want, I will look it up) but not right now. I can't remember who made it. It just tasted harsh and chemically for a long time. I've heard coffee can require more steeping, and I did add some other flavorings, but it tasted pretty bad for a long time. It also tasted enough like tiramisu that I decided to just let it age more.
I would say, start low on your percentages, and let things steep for... a while. Sorry, I don't have a ton to offer, I like tiramisu and I actually LIKE coffee but drink enough of it that rushing out to buy a bunch of coffee flavors seemed... Unnecessary.
Sort of like a diet pepsi vape
Anna
I swear she picked several of the hardest types without even knowing it! Thats okay though because I’m always up for a challenge and it’ll strengthen my skills Thanks for your input!
PM me what coffee types she is wanting tonight and what flavors you have.No, no need to look it up but I appreciate the offer! Really just wanted to avoid having that one mix I avoid, lol! I’ll start low and steep long, got it. That helps! I love coffee and, at times, its probably pretty close to my DIY ejuice hobby. I have all the unsweetened flavor syrups and make my own creamers, etc. So I wasn’t planning on doing a DIY coffee juice. However, my sister requested it and I don’t have the heart to tell her what a time I’m having of it. "I know coffee, I’ve got this!" I thought it’d be simple which has taught me another DIY learning experience
Yes- even single flavor mixes need to steep. They might not need to steep quite as long as more complicated recipes (though for reasons you might not think, I think) but they do need to steep.
I've spent some time thinking about why recipes need to steep at all (it's a bit surprising that they do, or at least it was to me,) and about how steeping changes them. I've come to some conclusions, some I'm fairly sure of, and others a bit speculative. One thing I am fairly sure of is that steeping is, in almost all cases we care about, mostly a matter of physical processes (rather than chemical reactions.) A steeped juice, compared to an un-steeped juice, is a juice with higher entropy.
In other words, a steeped juice is a well-mixed juice. The thing is, for many flavors (and it is why this matters for some so much than for others that I am most interested in and least sure about, though I have some guesses) this requires mixing on a very fine scale. Precisely how fine is another question. Given the means of mixing available to most of us, and the potential to do harm to our juice through more aggressive methods of mixing, we rely on Brownian motion to truly steep them.
Now it might be the case that if your flavors start off well-mixed they taste better even when they are not well-mixed with your medium. I'm skeptical about how strong an effect this has, but not _very_ skeptical. I can think of reasons why this might be the case, but...
It's at least plausible that a single flavor might need less steeping than several together, but if it's a flavor that needs to steep it needs to steep. I'm not just theory-crafting here- try Cap VCV1 (not my favorite, but many people love it) as a standalone at say 6% aged for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, and 3 months, at once. I think you will find that each has its own character.
A wise mixer who frequents ECF once recommended I do little experiments to determine which mixing style and/or steep length, and combos of, I prefer to my taste. For example: You’ve found a fruit concentrate you like to vape alone, mixed only with your VG, PG & nicotine. You need to determine if it’d be better, for your taste, as a shake and vape, 24 hours after mixing or aged 3 days. You’d mix one of each to be aged to the mentioned ages. So first mix your 3 day, wait 2 days and mix the 24 hr steep and then the last day mix your s&v. Be sure to label or mark in some way to keep confusion at bay. Then, test them all, closely noticing and comparing nuances. Try to determine which is best for your taste. You could also try them all, or just the s&v, again at 2 hrs, 4 hrs, 12 hrs etc... You may place the s&v differently after its aged a few hours etc. My point is, no one can really tell you which way you’ll prefer your mixes steeped or mixed. Though we can share what works for us. As long as whatever methods you decide to use works for you, there is no right or wrong way for all!
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So there’s another way to compare mixes at different ages. You can simply try them along the way and take notes. This works well for me now. When I was newer to mixing, it helped me to do it the way I described above.
If I’m doing sft (single flavor testing) for a concentrate I know won’t need a long steep, I usually do 3-5ml testers. If it’s one either I’m not sure of or will definitely take longer, I do 6-10ml to have enough to test at different times throughout the steep.
Edit:
So there’s another way to compare mixes at different ages. You can simply try them along the way and take notes. This works well for me now. When I was newer to mixing, it helped me to do it the way I described above.
If I’m doing sft (single flavor testing) for a concentrate I know won’t need a long steep, I usually do 3-5ml testers. If it’s one either I’m not sure of or will definitely take longer, I do 6-10ml to have enough to test at different times throughout the steep.
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The reason I do 15ml testers is so I have enough to taste over a 12 week time period. This has saved more than a few concentrates in my stash. It also helps me determine fade. I do not adjust my testers either.
This is, as a practical matter, how you have to test recipes, unless you work on very few at a time or you get paid to develop juice. I've done the work to make a few samples come together on the same day at different ages but it's more work than I (and I think most people) are willing to go to in general. So we must rely on our memory and our notes. And every once in a while a bottle of this I made in January vs one I just made.
I think some vastly wealthy person ought to endow a chair of juice science at my local University and appoint me chair. There's a well-funded school of food science there, devoted to making Fritos tastier as far as I can tell. There are so many experiments I'd conduct if I had the resources to do so.
I have my mixing station set up in a way that it would literally take me only 2-4 minutes to mix each tester, etc. I wouldn’t suggest doing this all the time but rather as a learning experience as a new mixer or with a mix you're needing a bit closer inspection of, etc. Though I should add that I’m overly .... with OCD. So I tend to go a bit overboard in some instances
Man great knowledge....
@Ethan diy Another thread you might want to check out. Lots of random informative.
Random DIY mixing and More
Random DIY mixing and More
Often wondered myself what steeping really is. There are a lot of theories out there, what you said makes a lot of sense. Specifically fine scale mixing rather than any chemical process.
What I found works best for me is mixing with a frother (paint mixer), plus time, which makes sense in terms of what you said above.
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