Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[anit77]

Read my post above. Slightly below the boiling point of water pure Nicotine will explode in a sealed bottle. If you heat it, nicotine will decompose chemically before it boils. 120f - 125f (48C) is a good recommendation.

Hi Danny, You really seem to know a lot about dyi mixing and I hope to get some advice in the near future when I get started myself. So please take the following lightly

Unless I'm way off on my conversions I think your comment above about exploding is a bit off. The boiling point of Nic is 247C which is 476.6F, the autoignition point is 240C/464F. Now the flash point of 95C/203F is just below the boiling point of water at 100C/212F but to flash ignite there needs to be an ignition source. In a sealed bottle at 95C it would have to compromise the seal and have an ignition source to burn but not explode.
Autoignition on the other hand does not need an ignition source that is completely temp dependent. So the Nic would have to be sealed container that can withstand temps above 240C to explode.

That and all of this, like you said, is also concerning pure nicotine. Not diluted at the levels we are using. An open bottle at 95C would start venting larger amounts of nic to the air though. And I don't know how much 10% liquid (let alone anything under 3.6%) it would take over time to reach 0.7 - 4 percent, by volume, in air Vapor Pressure at Room Temperature: 0.006 kPa.

I hope this removes the fear of temps getting a little higher in an unattended USC.

 

[bobalex]

Hey GUCE-ers ...

I caught this post yesterday:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ltrasonic-cleaner-part-ii-8.html#post11593055

I think ultrasonic cleansing is the "snake oil" of the ecig world.

I don't think I misspoke but have any of y'all had UC speed-steeping not work?

 

[ZNinja]

I do it, but can't say I notice any difference after several months of doing it vs not doing it. I don't do tobacco flavors however. Maybe the stuff I'm doing just didn't need it to begin with. I have done absolutely nothing scientific to proven or disprove this however, totally anecdotal evidence.

I bought the stupid thing to clean suppressor baffles and it doesn't work for that either. Maybe my unit is defective. I actually considered buying a different one.

 

[dannyv45]

Hi Danny, You really seem to know a lot about dyi mixing and I hope to get some advice in the near future when I get started myself. So please take the following lightly

Unless I'm way off on my conversions I think your comment above about exploding is a bit off. The boiling point of Nic is 247C which is 476.6F, the autoignition point is 240C/464F. Now the flash point of 95C/203F is just below the boiling point of water at 100C/212F but to flash ignite there needs to be an ignition source. In a sealed bottle at 95C it would have to compromise the seal and have an ignition source to burn but not explode.
Autoignition on the other hand does not need an ignition source that is completely temp dependent. So the Nic would have to be sealed container that can withstand temps above 240C to explode.

That and all of this, like you said, is also concerning pure nicotine. Not diluted at the levels we are using. An open bottle at 95C would start venting larger amounts of nic to the air though. And I don't know how much 10% liquid (let alone anything under 3.6%) it would take over time to reach 0.7 - 4 percent, by volume, in air Vapor Pressure at Room Temperature: 0.006 kPa.

I hope this removes the fear of temps getting a little higher in an unattended USC.

Your information is accurate and verbatum to what I said including the fact that at the lower mixed down concentrations that we use it's not a concern. I was answering a question some one asked as to how Nicotime reacts to heat. So I'm not exactly sure what point your making.

 

[dannyv45]

Hey GUCE-ers ...

I caught this post yesterday:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ltrasonic-cleaner-part-ii-8.html#post11593055



I don't think I misspoke but have any of y'all had UC speed-steeping not work?

Don't sweat it Bobalex there are always ney sayers among us. I responded to his comment. I can attest to the fact that it does work

 

[dannyv45]

I do it, but can't say I notice any difference after several months of doing it vs not doing it. I don't do tobacco flavors however. Maybe the stuff I'm doing just didn't need it to begin with. I have done absolutely nothing scientific to proven or disprove this however, totally anecdotal evidence.

I bought the stupid thing to clean suppressor baffles and it doesn't work for that either. Maybe my unit is defective. I actually considered buying a different one.

It's true that the UC may not work for all situations expecially if the mix needs little to no steeping but with tobaccos and creams it works wonders.

 

[rks1949]

Got the UC up and running! I can now see the small unit I was using wasn't doing the job! This one will make holes throught alum foil in about 30 seconds. The small one wouldn't make holes in the foil no matter how long you left it in. Starting out with cold water this one get's up to 129 degrees in 59 minutes run time,without the heater turned on. I make mostly fruit flavored juice,so about 1 hour seems to be right. They are comming out of the UC much darker than I've ever seen them before. This machine wasn't the one I was wanting. I tried to cancle the order,and thought I had,but it was already shipped after checking the tracking! But it seems to do the job well so far,so I'm happy with the results.

 

[anit77]

Your information is accurate and verbatum to what I said including the fact that at the lower mixed down concentrations that we use it's not a concern. I was answering a question some one asked as to how Nicotime reacts to heat. So I'm not exactly sure what point your making.

Sorry, I basiclly typed a novel to say that it would take considerably more heat than boiling water for nicotine to explode.

 

[dannyv45]

Sorry, I basiclly typed a novel to say that it would take considerably more heat than boiling water for nicotine to explode.

Point taken

Boiling point of water 99.9C
Boiling point of NIC 247C

 

[rks1949]

When I start mine,I use "room tempreture water"heater shut off,before the 60 minutes are up,it's up to 138 degrees. After it shuts off I place the cover on the UC and let the juice cool down slowly,to room temp,(takes about 2 hrs). I do mostly "fruit" flavored e/juice,and can tell a big diffrence in the aroma/taste of the juice after about 1-2 cycles through the uc. The carrier smell of the flavors isn't there anymore,just the orginal fruit flavors. I don't think I'm loosing any nic content,since the bottles are capped tightly. It has made a BIG diffrence in the taste of my juice! Danny is right about the "cream" flavors! They take a little longer to come around. After 1-2 cycles my juice now comes out with a nice light amber color,and taste great!

 

[RaymondK]

Do you submerge most of the glass bottle in water?

 

[dannyv45]

Do you submerge most of the glass bottle in water?

I do my 5ml test batches fully submerged but you need to test your glass bottles to make sure they won't leak. I do this by screwing the caps on tight and submerging them in water for 24 hours. If there is no water in them after 24 hours your good to go. I use the boston round 5ml glass bottles you can find on amazon. They are heavy enough to sink when empty. If they float then you'll need to put something heavy on top of them like a pan inside a pan type deal.

 

[M4NTIS]

I just got my ultrasonic cleaner yesterday and i'm pretty dissapointed. I tried out one 5ml bottle on three 30 minute cycles and absolutely nothing happened. It ran around 90 degrees on average. The bottle was a 60/40 mix with no nicotine. After a total of 90 minutes the juice was exactly the same as when I first put it in. Then I let it sit overnight with the cap off and still nothing. The glass bottle was fully submerged the entire time. I'm not sure what im doing wrong

 

[bobalex]

I just got my ultrasonic cleaner yesterday and i'm pretty dissapointed. I tried out one 5ml bottle on three 30 minute cycles and absolutely nothing happened. It ran around 90 degrees on average. The bottle was a 60/40 mix with no nicotine. After a total of 90 minutes the juice was exactly the same as when I first put it in. Then I let it sit overnight with the cap off and still nothing. The glass bottle was fully submerged the entire time. I'm not sure what im doing wrong

What flavor(s)?

 

[M4NTIS]

What flavor(s)?

All TFA. I did 6% Blueberry Extra, 6% Strawberry, 6% Peach, and 2% cotton candy

 

[cessnapix]

Well Danny, thanks for your Blog and all! I finally pulled the trigger on the jo4less you recommended a couple pages back. I have a bunch of tobaccos to test soon so we will see which one arrives 1st.

I like those Boston rounds as well but the smallest I have at this time are 30ml. I need to get some smaller one but shipping is more than the bottles most of the time. Looking at some vials like what RTS and wizzard ship there flavors in also, but most have metal caps and I would prefer phenolic/plastic.
Thanks again, anxious to try this thing out.

 

[bobalex]

I only DIY tobacco flavors and it takes 3 - 4 hours with 100% PG, 4 - 5 hours with 70/30 PG/VG. The more VG in the mix ... the longer it takes.

 

[M4NTIS]

I only DIY tobacco flavors and it takes 3 - 4 hours with 100% PG, 4 - 5 hours with 70/30 PG/VG. The more VG in the mix ... the longer it takes.

Oh ok so pretty much leave it in a little longer? Can I do full 60 minute cycles or should I stay at 30 and have a break inbetween?

 

[bobalex]

Oh ok so pretty much leave it in a little longer? Can I do full 60 minute cycles or should I stay at 30 and have a break inbetween?

It's been posted before that a 10 minute break after 30 minutes "on" will rest the transducer. The next time I DIY I'll do that. All the previous batches I've made I just kept turning it on over and over again. Every 8 minutes. Now that I've read that's a bad thing ... I'll give the UC a rest.

When you DIY'd before ... how long did the juice have to steep before it reached vape-ability?

 

[cessnapix]

Sorry about that bobalex, I should have thanked you as well, for I had read this thread and the others you started a long time ago. Matter of Fact I dont think there was a part III at that time!

So I just logged back in to thank you as well! Thank you for the time you have invested in this. It is appreciated!