Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[mikepetro]

What are flavors that need longer steeping / UC?
tobacco. Custard flavors? Banana flavors?

The nice thing is that Mikepetro's test protocol can be reproduced by others with different flavors now. I'm really curious how this plays out with flavors that need longer time to steep. Also the question remains how the taste is independent of the colorization.

What causes the colorization btw? Is it a chemical reaction (e.g. nicotine breakdown) or just "bonding" of substances (flavor bonding to PG/VG)?

I certainly hope I haven't just bought my UC just for cleaning stuff

Or oxidation????

 

[bobalex]

Bobalex, could you please list your current 4-5 hour process for tobacco mixes? I know I could reread the entire thread and piece it together, but it would take a while and I'd miss something somewhere. Thanks!

When I first started vaping, and then DIY'ing, I was a 100% PG All Tobacco - All the Time vaper. A couple of batches ago I added VG to the mix so now I'm a 70/30 guy. When I was using 100% PG the bottles stayed in the UC for 3-4 hours. The thicker 70/30 juices need an extra hour.

My UC has an 8 minute cycle limit. I believe it was Mike who recommended a rest time after 30 minutes of continuous running so the transducer doesn't wear out. As much as I want to ditch my 8 minute UC and upgrade to Danny's 30 minute model, Amazon.com: Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810, 30-min Timer, Plastic Basket: Electronics, I'm just going to have to wait on that one.

All the juices I make are 25mg. I can't tell the difference between 24 and 25 and the arithmetic is easier. First I add the nic to the bottles, then the PG, and then the VG. and lastly the flavor.

The flavors I use all came from ecigexpress.com: Electronic Cigarette, Clearomizer, USA e-Liquid, e-Cig Juice, DIY Flavors, Wholesale Nicotine, Empty Bottles for E-Liquid - ecigExpress

Signature Label DK Tobacco base (2%)
FlavourArt's Desert Ship (1%)
FlavourArt's Cowboy (1%)
Flavor Express 555 (1%)

I put the top on the bottles, give them a good shake, and into the UC (filled to the "max" line) they go. My UC has a "heat" option but after the first 3 - 4 cycles it's not necessary. The UC keeps the water warm throughout. After 4 cycles (32 minutes) I let the UC rest for about 10-15 minutes and then start it up again.

Not a complicated process is it? If I followed a more complex recipe or used a 50/50 mix then I could see more UC time and letting the bottles rest overnight uncapped. But I don't. I start the process in the morning and that night I'm vaping away with new juice.

 

[mikepetro]

Mike's shown the Strawberry juice he made ste eped in hot water for 3 hours was very close/same as 3 hours in a UC. It's a different story for tobacco juices. 8 hours of hot water (with lots of shaking) didn't discernibly speed up the process for the 3 tobacco flavors I made. It wasn't until I tried playing around with a UC that I could drastically cut down steep times.

Over the last couple of years I've incorporated some of the tweaks I've read about here and now the process takes 4 - 5 hours instead of 3 - 4 weeks.

It all depends on what you vape. Some flavors obviously need heat, others, like tobacco, need the good vibrations of a UC.

Agreed, my tests were in no way a blanket statement, just an attempt at a methodical process of determining what works and what doesnt for "my given circumstances". Naturally I picked ingredients that I personally use, I dont do tobaccos so I didnt have any to test, I picked strawberry as the is one that I know from experience develops further with time and/or help.

If someone wants to send me some particularly tough tobacco flavoring I would be happy to recreate the experiment. I have enough nic to supply a small city so I would only need the flavoring.

 

[rowdyplace]

<<snip>>

If someone wants to send me some particularly tough tobacco flavoring I would be happy to recreate the experiment. I have enough nic to supply a small city so I would only need the flavoring.

Pick one, PM me you address, and I will get in the mail today. These are the WL small bottles...

555 Type DK Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-555DKTOB Tob
American Red Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-AMERICANRED Tob
Black Honey Tobacco Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-BLACK-HONEY Tob
Commercial Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (SM) FL-SM-COMM-TOB Tob
Cowboy Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-COWBOY Tob
Light Brand Tobacco Flavor (SM) FL-SM-LIGHT-BRAND-TOB Tob
RY4 Double Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-DOUBLE Tob
RY4 Double Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-DOUBLE Tob
RY4 Type-1 Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-T1 Tob
Tobacco Type Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-TOB-NAT Tob
Cowboy Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-COWBOY Tob

edit - looks like I have 2 of these... RY4 Double Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-DOUBLE Tob

 

[mikepetro]

Pick one, PM me you address, and I will get in the mail today. ..........

You guys pick, you all know what needs aging more then I do. Perhaps even a blend.

If I had to pick I would say the RY4 because you have 2, but that is not necessarily the best criteria for selecting a test.

Also, I will return the processed samples for the donator(s) to taste, y'all just cover the return postage. Hehehe, but I will do it blind, as is in only labeled "A", "B", "C".

Need at least enough flavor to do 100ml to keep the test variables consistent.

My motivation in all of this is in cutting through the anecdotal and advancing the science. I really dont care where it all lands.

 

[rowdyplace]

You guys pick, you all know what needs aging more then I do. Perhaps even a blend.

If I had to pick I would say the RY4 because you have 2, but that is not necessarily the best criteria for selecting a test.

Also, I will return the processed samples for the donator(s) to taste, y'all just cover the return postage. Hehehe, but I will do it blind, as is in only labeled "A", "B", "C".

Need at least enough flavor to do 100ml to keep the test variables consistent.

My motivation in all of this is in cutting through the anecdotal and advancing the science. I really dont care where it all lands.

PM received and another sent - Is 8ml enough?

 

[Jaepoori]

Mike's shown the Strawberry juice he made steeped in hot water for 3 hours was very close/same as 3 hours in a UC. It's a different story for tobacco juices. 8 hours of hot water (with lots of shaking) didn't discernibly speed up the process for the 3 tobacco flavors I made. It wasn't until I tried playing around with a UC that I could drastically cut down steep times.

Over the last couple of years I've incorporated some of the tweaks I've read about here and now the process takes 4 - 5 hours instead of 3 - 4 weeks.

It all depends on what you vape. Some flavors obviously need heat, others, like tobacco, need the good vibrations of a UC.

I only use flavors and not tobacco flavors. Would steeping them in hot water be just as the same as using a UC?

 

[rowdyplace]

PM received and another sent - Is 8ml enough?

I have 4 ounces of TFA's Western (used to be called cowboy) if you need more than 8mL.

 

[rowdyplace]

Mike -

I actually have 3 bottles of the RY4 , and will donate all three to your efforts - if needed. Maybe another member needs to decide between the Western and the RY4. I only like the Western...

And, I do not care which they pick.

 

[downInTn]

Pick one, PM me you address, and I will get in the mail today. These are the WL small bottles...

555 Type DK Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-555DKTOB Tob
American Red Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-AMERICANRED Tob
Black Honey Tobacco Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-BLACK-HONEY Tob
Commercial Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (SM) FL-SM-COMM-TOB Tob
Cowboy Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-COWBOY Tob
Light Brand Tobacco Flavor (SM) FL-SM-LIGHT-BRAND-TOB Tob
RY4 Double Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-DOUBLE Tob
RY4 Double Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-DOUBLE Tob
RY4 Type-1 Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-T1 Tob
Tobacco Type Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-TOB-NAT Tob
Cowboy Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-COWBOY Tob

edit - looks like I have 2 of these... RY4 Double Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-RY4-DOUBLE Tob

Supposedly, Black Honey is one that takes a really long steep.

 

[rowdyplace]

Don't have that one. And, I have missed my window to ship out today. Take some time, decide tonight, and I will ship tomorrow.

edit - Yes I do...

 

[bobalex]

I only use flavors and not tobacco flavors. Would steeping them in hot water be just as the same as using a UC?

The best way to find out is give it a test. Make up a sample and keep it in 135 F water for 3 (or more) hours. If the juice tastes great the next day ... you've saved yourself some money because as rowdyplace pointed out, Crockpots are a heck of a lot cheaper than a good UC.

 

[mikepetro]

I only use flavors and not tobacco flavors. Would steeping them in hot water be just as the same as using a UC?

I dont think that is conclusive yet. What I do know is that with Strawberry there was little to no difference. How other flavors pan out remains to be seen. I will repeat the experiment with other flavors and blends as I need juice. Once we acquire test results on a wider variety of flavors we can then start to draw some conclusions.

 

[Jaepoori]

You guys are using glass bottles and not plastic right? I feel it's unsafe to be keeping plastic bottles I'm hot water like that...

 

[mikepetro]

Mike -

I actually have 3 bottles of the RY4 , and will donate all three to your efforts - if needed. Maybe another member needs to decide between the Western and the RY4. I only like the Western...

And, I do not care which they pick.

Once a flavor is selected, do let me know what % flavoring to use.

 

[bobalex]

You guys are using glass bottles and not plastic right? I feel it's unsafe to be keeping plastic bottles I'm hot water like that...

Glass is best all around. In the UC it doesn't dampen the UC effects and in hot water there's no issue about plastic leeching.

 

[dannyv45]

You guys pick, you all know what needs aging more then I do. Perhaps even a blend.

If I had to pick I would say the RY4 because you have 2, but that is not necessarily the best criteria for selecting a test.

Also, I will return the processed samples for the donator(s) to taste, y'all just cover the return postage. Hehehe, but I will do it blind, as is in only labeled "A", "B", "C".

Need at least enough flavor to do 100ml to keep the test variables consistent.

My motivation in all of this is in cutting through the anecdotal and advancing the science. I really dont care where it all lands.

The Double ry4 would be the most common and hardest to steep. It needs a good 4 -5 weeks. Follow this recipe with it.

Base = your choice

DRY4 7%
Caramel = 2%
Cream (Baverian, sweet cream, Deluce de leche), really any cream will do) 2%

 

[dannyv45]

The Double ry4 would be the most common and hardest to steep. It needs a good 4 -5 weeks. Follow this recipe with it.

Base = your choice

DRY4 7%
Caramel = 2%
Cream (Baverian, sweet cream, Deluce de leche), really any cream will do) 2%

Final steeped color will be a med to dark amber.

 

[rowdyplace]

The Double ry4 would be the most common and hardest to steep. It needs a good 4 -5 weeks. Follow this recipe with it.

Base = your choice

DRY4 7%
Caramel = 2%
Cream (Baverian, sweet cream, Deluce de leche), really any cream will do) 2%

I was just thinking of you, Danny. I have copied some or your RY4 recipes. Copied them down on paper...for future use - not copied them in the mixing bowl...

I suggest that you be one of the blind taste testers. I really would not know the difference between a "good" batch and a less than good one...

 

[bobalex]

I was just thinking of you, Danny. I have copied some or your RY4 recipes. Copied them down on paper...for future use - not copied them in the mixing bowl...

I suggest that you be one of the blind taste testers. I really would not know the difference between a "good" batch and a less than good one...

Yeah we definitely need a RY4 aficionado to taste test. I vote Danny.